DS Audio ES-001 Eccentricity Detection Stabilizer

[mtemur]

I've came across a video of DS Audio record clamp that detects eccentricity variations of records and help you to fix it.

link to video:

info:
https://ds-audio-w.biz/products/563/

I have so many questions. I don't think it works as advertised. it's sure there should be some space between record and spindle in order this thing to help you fix eccentricity but most records fit tightly. I don't think enlarging record holes in the first place is a good idea. additionally I'm not sure how it tracks the last-circular groove cause eccentricity should be fixed according to the last-circular groove.
what do you think?

 

[mtemur]

I visited Munich hi-end audio show last week and learned how it works. it has two pair of infrared emitters and receivers on the lower side. they’re located 45 degree angle and keep track of inner most groove. that’s how it measures eccentricity. if the record has a little bigger hole than the spindle you can perfectly center the record. alternatively you can enlarge spindle hole on all your records. but you need to stop the platter two times for each record for perfect centering. it’s impossible for most heavy platters and vacuum hold down turntables. price is expected around 5-6K USD.

 

[PeterA]

How much of a problem is record eccentricity? If it were clearly audible wouldn’t we hear an anomaly every 1.8 seconds or whatever it is for a rotation? I have not noticed this as an issue even in the most resolving systems I’ve ever heard. Perhaps I just don’t know what to listen for.

 

[mtemur]

How much of a problem is record eccentricity? If it were clearly audible wouldn’t we hear an anomaly every 1.8 seconds or whatever it is for a rotation? I have not noticed this as an issue even in the most resolving systems I’ve ever heard. Perhaps I just don’t know what to listen for.

it’s a big issue when it exists. it highly imparts wow&flutter performance. I haven’t seen huge eccentricity problems on new records from audiophile labels but it’s better to totally eliminate it.

 

[PeterA]

it’s a big issue when it exists. it highly imparts wow&flutter performance. I haven’t seen huge eccentricity problems on new records from audiophile labels but it’s better to totally eliminate it.

Thanks, mtemur. I look at the end of the tonearm/cartridge to see how much it moves during play. Rarely do I see a back and forth movement of the headshell. Nor do I hear an issue. I would not want to enlarge the center hole of each LP and center each one perfectly. Anyway, I have a heavy platter and vacuum hold down, so this device apparently would not work in my case. LP is a highly flawed medium, but it can still sound amazing.

 

[mtemur]

Thanks, mtemur. I look at the end of the tonearm/cartridge to see how much it moves during play. Rarely do I see a back and forth movement of the headshell. Nor do I hear an issue. I would not want to enlarge the center hole of each LP and center each one perfectly. Anyway, I have a heavy platter and vacuum hold down, so this device apparently would not work in my case. LP is a highly flawed medium, but it can still sound amazing.

one my friends used to have a Nakamichi TX-1000 turntable. it can do this trick without a hassle and it’s a joy to watch it but even sota sapphire with basic jelco arm was sounding much better than that. :-(

 

[gds7368]

I heard this product last weekend at Quintessence Audio in Chicago, and it produced a significant improvement in sound quality on all four albums we tried. The delta ranged from slightly but definitely better (Dean Martin “Dreaming with Dean”, Dire Straits “Brothers in Arms”) to vastly superior (Three Blind Mice “Greensleeves”). After the adjustment the sound was always cleaner, clearer and more involving, and was equally worthwhile through both cartridges/phono preamp combos and with both turntables as inputs.

A) clearaudio Reference Jubilee table, clearaudio Goldfinger cartridge, Boulder 2108 phonostage

B) clearaudio Innovation table, DS Audio Grandmaster cartridge, DS Audio Grandmaster equalizer

Boulder 2110 preamp, Boulder 2160 stereo amplifier, Sonus Faber Aida2 speakers, top Transparent cabling, Critical Mass Maxxum stand.

Garth from Musical Surroundings was there for the demo, but my impressions were not swayed in any way through industry adulation. After the demo I paid through my own ears, with delivery hopefully this September. I’ll report back when it arrives.

I encourage folks to give it a try on your own albums, in your room, on your system before and after its use. Finally a light and (very) portable audio device to home demo!

 

[thekong]

Since you have to (re)position / centre the LP around the turntable spindle, I assume you have to enlarge the hole on the LP to do so, is that correct? If so, once you have enlarged the hole, you must use this ES 001 every time you play the LP?

 

[gds7368]

Since you have to (re)position / centre the LP around the turntable spindle, I assume you have to enlarge the hole on the LP to do so, is that correct? If so, once you have enlarged the hole, you must use this ES 001 every time you play the LP?

It comes with a tool to enlarge the center hole, but we didn’t have to use it on the 5 or so albums we played. I certainly own some albums that are already tight on the spindle, especially when I “pushed” them down for the first play. I imagine those tight albums would need a slightly larger central hole if they were found to be off center (all the albums we tried were at least slightly off center and were adjusted, listening before and afterward).

I think you use this every time you play any record, though I would be less intrigued with the 001 if it required enlarging the center hole for most albums. I take your questions with particular interest as I wouldn’t want all my albums with widened spindle holes and then this item breaks etc

I view it as a clearly audible accessory that is fractionally worth its cost (to me) for what you’ve already invested in time, energy and money.

 

[thekong]

It comes with a tool to enlarge the center hole, but we didn’t have to use it on the 5 or so albums we played. I certainly own some albums that are already tight on the spindle, especially when I “pushed” them down for the first play. I imagine those tight albums would need a slightly larger central hole if they were found to be off center (all the albums we tried we at least slightly off center).

I think you use this every time you play any record, though I would be less intrigued with the 001 if it required enlarging the center hole for most albums. I take your questions with particular interest as I wouldn’t want all my albums with widened spindle holes and then this item breaks etc

I view it as a clearly audible accessory that is fractionally worth its cost (to me) for what you’ve already invested in time, energy and money.

Thank you for the information!

 

[BillK]

I think you use this every time you play any record, though I would be less intrigued with the 001 if it required enlarging the center hole for most albums. I take your questions with particular interest as I wouldn’t want all my albums with widened spindle holes and then this item breaks etc

I view it as a clearly audible accessory that is fractionally worth its cost (to me) for what you’ve already invested in time, energy and money.

The thing is, why would you ever want to listen to them without using the device again, given there is something wrong you are correcting?

You could, if you wanted, use an extremely fine point sharpie to mark the precise corrected placement of the spindle within the hole on the label on each side.

This is rather like buying a record cleaning machine; you don't have to buy one, but remember your music is always at the mercy of that piece of plastic.

It will never sound right unless clean… or centered.

 

[bonzo75]

I am surprised @Mike Lavigne hasn’t bought this yet. The video from Fremer definitely shows an improvement audible through the video

 

[bonzo75]

it’s impossible for most heavy platters and vacuum hold down turntables. price is expected around 5-6K USD.

why is it impossible for these cases. can’t it be centred on a heavy platter using the DS, then the vacuum turned on?

 

[mtemur]

why is it impossible for these cases. can’t it be centred on a heavy platter using the DS, then the vacuum turned on?

as far as I know the process is as follows:
first you place it over the record then spin the platter at least two turns. after that the screen on top of the device shows how much off-center the record is. in order to correct it you need to stop the platter and move the record to the direction until you reach perfect center and all of this process is shown on the screen. it seems easy but there is a problem because in order to move the record on the platter you need to release vacuum hold down or you may not engage it in the first place. if you don't engage it the record lands a little bit high on the platter with vacuum hold down turntables when vacuum is not used and once you activate the vacuum after the whole process the record might move while being sucked. additionally in order to use this device you need to stop and start the platter two times which is time consuming and another problem for heavy platters.

 

[TLi]

My friend, Ackcheng, uses a TechDAS Air Force One Premium. He bought DS Audio ES-001 and said it was a must have tool for his vinyl playback syste.

 

[TLi]

Yesterday I tried one myself in my system. With the central axis correctly aligned, there is very noticable improvement in the sound. Bascially everything is better, more dynamic, smoother sound and higher resolution.

The hole on the record often needs to be enlarged in order to provide enough leeway to reposition it. Although it does take a bit of time to align the record, the effort is well rewarded.

Some records have uneven surface on the label, particularly if they use very thick paper for the label, they tend to warp. In this case, the ES-001 doesn't work too well because it cannot sit still in the middle. So it does not work in all records.

It is certainly very expansive and troublesome. Every serious vinyl user should have one for maximum result.

 

[gds7368]

Yesterday I tried one myself in my system. With the central axis correctly aligned, there is very noticable improvement in the sound. Bascially everything is better, more dynamic, smoother sound and higher resolution.

The hole on the record often needs to be enlarged in order to provide enough leeway to reposition it. Although it does take a bit of time to align the record, the effort is well rewarded.

Some records have uneven surface on the label, particularly if they use very thick paper for the label, they tend to warp. In this case, the ES-001 doesn't work too well because it cannot sit still in the middle. So it does not work in all records.

It is certainly very expansive and troublesome. Every serious vinyl user should have one for maximum result.

I agree 100% … it’s an easy experiment to listen centered then uncentered and then centered again, or vice versa. I always find some improvement, often dramatic.

Most of my center spindles require enlarging - probably 80-90% - creating a permanent residence in my system. (DS Audio job security!) I was hoping to create a threshold where I only needed to enlarge the spindle hole on a minority of albums. I have not been so lucky in my 200ish LPs, but I cannot unhear the improvement it makes in enjoyment and naturalness, as in “the band is playing in my room.” I’m glad to have it, and never listen without centering each side of each album. If something happened to it etc I would immediately purchase it again.

FWIW my unit likes its 2 AA internal batteries well charged. If you are having trouble getting it to work, try changing the batteries! With good batteries it works every time.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

one question not made clear; do you have to go thru the two platter stops every time you play that record? or could you take a Sharpee and put a dot on the label in the direction you push somehow? then play it without the process and would it be as effective?

i did see above this 'marking idea' was mentioned. and wondered whether it had been tried?

 

[TLi]

one question not made clear; do you have to go thru the two platter stops every time you play that record? or could you take a Sharpee and put a dot on the label in the direction you push somehow? then play it without the process and would it be as effective?

i did see above this 'marking idea' was mentioned. and wondered whether it had been tried?

I don’t mark the label of the record for obvious reason but I remember the position of the label that I need to push.

With ES-001 placed on the record, a small amount of record label is still exposed. I just need to correlate the direction of push to the part of label edge and push accordingly. It is not difficult just time consuming.

 

[Zeotrope]

Is the idea to use the ES-001 as the record clamp? Otherwise, isn’t there a high risk the record will move when you take off the ES-001 and put on your clamp?