Ears vs. Measurements

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,

I respect your option to prefer what you call "more accurate reproduction". As, according to my standards, it contains less information and is less enjoyable than the sound reproduction I prefer, I can not call it as more accurate - only "instrumentally more accurate". Anyway I would love to know from you about the Canadian and Harman electronics tests - I hope you are not extrapolating from the loudspeaker research and development to the electronics.

Curious to refer to the long term and tiresome of some types of reproduction - it is just what the audiophiles typically have against " "instrumentally accurate" reproduction. It is also a big sales argument of highend - I am now quoting Nelson Pass (my bold) : "Our real customers care most about the experience they get when they sit down to listen to their music. We create amplifiers that we like to listen to, on the assumption that we share similar taste. We want our products to invite you to listen. We want you to enjoy the experience so much that you go through your entire record collection - again and again. This, by the way, is a very strong indicator."

You are a happy man - most people dream of owning a XLF. You found a perfect reason no to own it no one can dispute - you would tire of it quickly. Typical audiophiles are supposed to get tired after five years - the time to developed and market an improved version!

And yes, we have been here before.

Of course I am. That research indicated that a strong (overwhelming?) majority of listeners -- trained and untrained, audiophile and otherwise -- prefered a more linear in-room response. The likelihood of obtaining a more linear in-room response surely diminishes with less linear electronics?

Tim

 

[microstrip]

Of course I am. That research indicated that a strong (overwhelming?) majority of listeners -- trained and untrained, audiophile and otherwise -- prefered a more linear in-room response. The likelihood of obtaining a more linear in-room response surely diminishes with less linear electronics?

Tim

You are extrapolating from apples to oranges. Mechanical non-linearity due to speakers has completely different consequences from electronics non-linearity.

Also, IMHO this means you are out of the new measurements for electronics debate. All the referred speaker tests were carried in the assumption that the influence of electronics and source would be minimal or even null. We are just debating the use of measurements in electronics. If they sound all almost the same, as assumed openly in these studies about "decently" designed electronics, why looking for new measurements and correlations?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You are extrapolating from apples to oranges. Mechanical non-linearity due to speakers has completely different consequences from electronics non-linearity.

Also, IMHO this means you are out of the new measurements for electronics debate. All the referred speaker tests were carried in the assumption that the influence of electronics and source would be minimal or even null. We are just debating the use of measurements in electronics. If they sound all almost the same, as assumed openly in these studies about "decently" designed electronics, why looking for new measurements and correlations?

And if these electronics can sound audibly, even profoundly different, how can they not impact the linearity of the sound in the room? How can listener's preference for more linear sound in-room not correlate to more linear sound from electronic components?

Yes. Slightly off-topic. I embrace the time-honored internet tradition of thread drift. I resist the tyranny of strict topical compliance. And I notice when past arguments don't sync with current positions.

Tim

 

[microstrip]

And if these electronics can sound audibly, even profoundly different, how can they not impact the linearity of the sound in the room? How can listener's preference for more linear sound in-room not correlate to more linear sound from electronic components?

Yes. Slightly off-topic. I embrace the time-honored internet tradition of thread drift. I resist the tyranny of strict topical compliance. And I notice when past arguments don't sync with current positions.

Tim

IMHO the sound of electronics, cables and optimal placement affect the sound of a loudspeaker in a room - it is why I (and many others) do not embrace the conclusions of F. Toole about speaker preference - I do not consider his tests as universally valid.

As I have often referred, you have to separate the first and the second part of his book.

 

[microstrip]

there is smoke because my hair is on fire anyway as usual we both get no where but provide some entertainment for the WBF lurkers perhaps!

It was not my intention! I have to say I am more optimist than you - I think that I get somewhere and that people reading this forum will understand our positions. Surely posts from experts such as Gary and Ralph Karsteen have more substance than my amateur comments, but I do my best to keep the flame of psycoacoustics alight in WBF - even if it fires your hair!