Euphoric index of Audio Performance

[fas42]

All of which will be (probably rightly so) challenged by numerous folk, especially since the data effectively exists only in my mind at this point... I believe what I remember, but certainly do not expect anybody else to believe the same.

Don, everything you mention looks very reasonable to me. I've mentioned many times that the type of testing normally done seems pretty inadequate for getting close to the truth about, in the context of this thread, EAM. So my measuring tool of choice is not AP, but ear to the tweeter ... (1,142 times)

Frank

 

[amirm]

OK, how about an exercise?

What is EAM when I multiply the frequency response by 2X:

From 0 to 10 KHz to 0 to 20 KHz

From 0 to 20 KHz, to 0 to 40 KHz

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You've lost me, Amir.

Tim

 

[amirm]

Oh, it was pretty simple. In both cases, I doubled the frequency response. That is the technical measure. I am asking what is the Euphoric measure. Is it 1.0 in both cases? That is doubling the technical spec, results in the sound being doubly good? Or something else?

 

[fas42]

Rough as guts estimates, and assuming completely inaudible distortion (that's the hard bit ...)

*) From 0 to 10 KHz to 0 to 20 KHz: EAM ~ 20

*) From 0 to 20 KHz, to 0 to 40 KHz: EAM = 1

 

[DonH50]

Since my hearing now rolls off at around 12 kHz, near-zero and zero. When I was younger and my hearing extended to over 20 kHz (measured!), maybe 0.5 for the first but still 0 for the second. I find other things more important than the very last octave of FR, at least on the high side.

How about the bottom octave:

1. From 40 Hz to 20 Hz LF cutoff (recall the lowest string on a bass guitar is about 42 Hz)?
2. From 20 Hz to 10 Hz LF cutoff?

I'd give those maybe a 2 and a 1...

 

[microstrip]

Oh, it was pretty simple. In both cases, I doubled the frequency response. That is the technical measure. I am asking what is the Euphoric measure. Is it 1.0 in both cases? That is doubling the technical spec, results in the sound being doubly good? Or something else?

Amir,
I think EAM should valuate mainly quality, not quantity, or better still the quantity of the quality!
You will surely need matrices to compute it - may be Matlab should be an adequate tool to calculate it.

 

[fas42]

Amir,
I think EAM should valuate mainly quality, not quantity, or better still the quantity of the quality!
You will surely need matrices to compute it - may be Matlab should be an adequate tool to calculate it.

To my mind what Amir is trying to do, to use your language, is associate a quality measure to a quantity. Some quantities may vary dramatically with hardly any variance in quality; and on the other hand a measurable quantity changes in a seemingly relatively inconsequential way, and people say, it's night and day!

As an example of the latter, an amplifier doubles in power, nominally this gives a 3dB improvement in headroom, at low volumes this change in volume is almost meaningless. But the reality is that the manufacturer had to make major improvements in the power supply to get that extra power, and it can now drive a somewhat inefficient but high quality speaker closer to realistic sound levels without unpleasant distortion intruding. This has already been mentioned, by Tim I think.

And for an example of the first, when the system is running at a high quality level, the 95 factor I mentioned before, frequency response becomes almost irrelevant. I know people here vigorously object to this, but high quality headphones demonstrate the case perfectly. In other words, assuming already elevated quality standards, quite gross "problems" of FR barely affect the quality level ...

Frank

 

[NorthStar]

Different pairs of lips react differently from the same kiss.

The same pair of loudspeakers reacts differently from different electronics (even amps).

________________________

EDIT: This is only euphoric poetry, with a touch of humor.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Different pairs of lips react differently from the same kiss.

The same pair of loudspeakers reacts differently from different electronics (even amps).

Not to be pedantic, but loudspeakers are not lips and the interface between them and an amp is no kiss. To an amp, a loudspeaker is a load. To a loudspeaker, an amp is a source of power. The relationship between them is not romantic, nor is it flooby dust (well, I might make the argument that passive crossovers are some kind of dust in the works, but I'd get pretty lonely there), it is electromechanical and both predictable and controllable. 99.9% of "synergy" is math.

Now, back to your usual programming...

Tim

 

[NorthStar]

Not to be pedantic, but loudspeakers are not lips and the interface between them and an amp is no kiss. To an amp, a loudspeaker is a load. To a loudspeaker, an amp is a source of power. The relationship between them is not romantic, nor is it flooby dust (well, I might make the argument that passive crossovers are some kind of dust in the works, but I'd get pretty lonely there), it is electromechanical and both predictable and controllable. 99.9% of "synergy" is math.

Now, back to your usual programming...

Tim

Sorry Tim, you are right, and I should not have commented in such a derivative way.
Humans, emotions and kisses simply don't mix with electronics and loudspeakers.

 

[amirm]

I thought it was a fine and romantic analogy Bob .

 

[NorthStar]

But Tim is the new super mod!!!

He's a serious man you know.

 

[amirm]

Yeh... In his new role, we have to beat that out of him....

 

[cjfrbw]

Just don't give Tim the keys to the plywood pillory.

 

[NorthStar]

He ain't too bad; he likes to keep people on 'tropic'.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I just don't want any of you guys kissin' me, that's all. You'll notice I opened that post with "Not to be pedantic," then went on to be pedantic. It really wasn't your analogy, Bob, it was what I read into it. When I see that kind of thing I'm subconsciously transported to long, fantasy-based discussions of "synergy." But I digress. Way off topic. We need a mod here....

Hey! Phelonious! Stay on topic!

Uh oh...evidently I don't know how to do green type...where is that mod handbook?

Tim

 

[naturephoto1]

s of "synergy." But I digress. Way off topic. We need a mod here....

Hey! Phelonious! Stay on topic!

Uh oh...evidently I don't know how to do green type...where is that mod handbook?

Tim

Tim,

To change the color of the type, point the cursor to the A with a line below it in the quick reply box when you wish to reply to thread. It will show a pallet of colors that can be used for type. Then place the pointer on the color selection and click. Then type between the color block or move the first color "block" to the beginning of what you want in color and the 2nd "block" at the end of what you want in color and wella.

Rich

 

[NorthStar]

I just don't want any of you guys kissin' me, that's all. You'll notice I opened that post with "Not to be pedantic," then went on to be pedantic. It really wasn't your analogy, Bob, it was what I read into it. When I see that kind of thing I'm subconsciously transported to long, fantasy-based discussions of "synergy." But I digress. Way off topic. We need a mod here....

Hey! Phelonious! Stay on topic!

Uh oh...evidently I don't know how to do green type...where is that mod handbook?

Tim

No problem at all Tim; I appreciate your generous participation in these forums here at WB, and the confidence of key people in you.
You are an articulate individual and always in search of the Audio Truth!

Besides, this thread is Amir's one, and Amir is also a fantastic and generous individual with tons of great information, plus with always intelligent questions from which transpired intelligent discussions on all things Best in life!

I'm just a simple person myself, navigating in a sea of great people. I wish I can give more sometimes; I'm just aware of my own limitations, but also of my own strengths in my own peculiar way.

Communication is key to higher learning, and it is with words that invite to discussions that we all share and learn some more... And that about everything that is good in life, using all of our five senses plus more...

Poetry and Philosophy can be two of my fortes when and if I put my heart into it. And it has a place here in these Forums, always.
And of course music is part of my entire life since a very very young age. It is a continuity into my higher learning, and I use it as my own expression to live in these modern & tumultuous times.

__________________

An 'euphoric' experience in audio performance can come in all aspects of a multidimensional 'state of well being', and there is much more than electronic gear that can contribute to that (measurements and all that Jazz...).
It is an elation of the senses, an internal feeling, a dilating and tantalizing freshness into the subconscious and physical tingling of the body. It comes 'at times' in the most unexpected moments and for no specific reasons.

Or to put it auditorily, like a tintinnabulation. ...Just like I am experiencing right now as I type these words and listening to Jazz music from the r.a.d.i.o. (88.5 Seattle Jazz station).

And it is the same sound system as I was using yesterday. Nothing has changed, only my perceptual transformation of my aura. It is tangible and uncalculable.

__________________

Now, somebody else's turn!

 

[NorthStar]

Tim,

To change the color of the type, point the cursor to the A with a line below it in the quick reply box when you wish to reply to thread. It will show a pallet of colors that can be used for type. Then place the pointer on the color selection and click. Then type between the color block or move the first color "block" to the beginning of what you want in color and the 2nd "block" at the end of what you want in color and wella.

Rich

Yup!