Great electrostatic amplifiers?

eskamobob1

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Hello Everyone,

I am trying to find out what brands I should look into for electrostatic speaker amplifiers. TBH, I dont plan on getting electro static speakers, but instead love electrostatic headphones and find the current state of headphone energizers quite lacking, so I wanted to look into speaker amp makers for further research/to reach out and see if someone would be open to making a custom bias one for head phones. Any ideas of what companies I should even look into for great energizers? Google and the like are honestly just not turning up much.

-esk
 
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Electrostatics differ a lot, both electrically and in sound characteristics. What speakers are you considering?
 

Ron Resnick

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Hello Everyone,

I am trying to find out what brands I should look into for electrostatic speaker amplifiers. TBH, I dont plan on getting electro static speakers, but instead love electrostatic headphones and find the current state of headphone energizers quite lacking, so I wanted to look into speaker amp makers for further research/to reach out and see if someone would be open to making a custom bias one for head phones. Any ideas of what companies I should even look into for great energizers? Google and the like are honestly just not turning up much.

-esk

Are you not happy with the Blue Hawaii electrostatic headphone amplifier?


I'm not a headphone person, but I thought that this headphone amplifier was a standard high-end recommendation.
 

Audio Addict

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I personally have not found any that I enjoy more than my Ray Samuels Audio A-10 Thunderbolt II with the Stax SR-009S and my Aries Cerat Helene. You should attend Axpona or a Head-Fi CanJam. HeadAmp had quite the electrostatic headphone amplifier shootout at CanJam New York.
 

eskamobob1

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Electrostatics differ a lot, both electrically and in sound characteristics. What speakers are you considering?
I am actually looking to see if I can have someone make me an amplifier to use with electrostatic headphones (specifically Shangri-La SR), not to use with speakers. Topology wise they should be the same as directly driven estat speakers, but using a different bias voltage (most all estat heaphones no used 580V bias vs 2k+ for lots of speakers)
Are you not happy with the Blue Hawaii electrostatic headphone amplifier?
Honestly, I dont think that the blue Hawaii is very good. I can see how it was revolutionary when released, but being almost 10 years since design and having increased nearly 2x in price its quite uncompetitive in the space currently IMO. For a bit less money new (and maybe $500 more used) I personally prefer the LTA Z10E by quite a massive margin (its at least a tier or two up technically speaking).
I personally have not found any that I enjoy more than my Ray Samuels Audio A-10 Thunderbolt II with the Stax SR-009S and my Aries Cerat Helene. You should attend Axpona or a Head-Fi CanJam. HeadAmp had quite the electrostatic headphone amplifier shootout at CanJam New York.
Honestly, I would love to hear the thunderbolt II, liquid lightning mk2, and Electra, but all of those are unfortunately basically impossible to find. As for more modern stuff, I have basically heard everything under the sun and while some of it is fantastic, I also find that every item has at least one massive glaring flaw that ends up annoying me. While estats in general just have much higher technicalities than conventional headphones, I find that all of the real TOTL options for energizers just arent as balanced/well rounded as what you get for similar money in conventional cans. This is basically what lead to me to look into the possibility of a custom bias electrostatic speaker amp.

Just FWIW, IMO, the very clear top picks in the current market are:

  • Eksonic "DIY" T2
  • Viva Audio STX
  • HeadAmp Grand Cayman
  • Woo Audio 3ES Elite
 

Gregadd

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Atmasphere

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It sounds like you're asking about finding someone to build a one-off.

It might take some convincing to get a manufacturer to do that. They would be concerned about liability and the time it would take to work out the mechanical and electronic design.

Had you considered having someone build a DIY project for you? Here's a link I found on DIYaudio.com:
electrostatic headphone amp
 

Gregadd

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I am actually looking to see if I can have someone make me an amplifier to use with electrostatic headphones (specifically Shangri-La SR), not to use with speakers. Topology wise they should be the same as directly driven estat speakers, but using a different bias voltage (most all estat heaphones no used 580V bias vs 2k+ for lots of speakers)

Honestly, I dont think that the blue Hawaii is very good. I can see how it was revolutionary when released, but being almost 10 years since design and having increased nearly 2x in price its quite uncompetitive in the space currently IMO. For a bit less money new (and maybe $500 more used) I personally prefer the LTA Z10E by quite a massive margin (its at least a tier or two up technically speaking).

Honestly, I would love to hear the thunderbolt II, liquid lightning mk2, and Electra, but all of those are unfortunately basically impossible to find. As for more modern stuff, I have basically heard everything under the sun and while some of it is fantastic, I also find that every item has at least one massive glaring flaw that ends up annoying me. While estats in general just have much higher technicalities than conventional headphones, I find that all of the real TOTL options for energizers just arent as balanced/well rounded as what you get for similar money in conventional cans. This is basically what lead to me to look into the possibility of a custom bias electrostatic speaker amp.

Just FWIW, IMO, the very clear top picks in the current market are:

  • Eksonic "DIY" T2
  • Viva Audio STX
  • HeadAmp Grand Cayman
  • Woo Audio 3ES Elite
Audiophiles have been chasing that goal from the beginning. Nothing is perfect. When man fixes a problem, he creates another one. I am afraid you are going to have to pick your potion. Happy trails.
 

Audio Addict

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I am going up to the manufacturer to hear this prototype.


This is another that is in the prototype phase from another manufacturer.

 
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JackD201

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Are Stax's amplifiers that bad that none of them are under consideration?
 

Nemal1

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Many people wish to go their own route. I’m more than happy with my 8000 amp and 9000 headphones regardless of the opinion of others. I own this equipment and everyone else is free to make their own choices.
 

eskamobob1

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It sounds like you're asking about finding someone to build a one-off.

It might take some convincing to get a manufacturer to do that. They would be concerned about liability and the time it would take to work out the mechanical and electronic design.

Had you considered having someone build a DIY project for you? Here's a link I found on DIYaudio.com:
electrostatic headphone amp
I have looked at DIY but TBH, its kinda tough for me to judge what may be worth while and what wont be design wise, and I've yet to see a DIY besides T2 that people even begin to claim compete at the level im looking at TBH

As for the convincing, yah. I fully realize it will be a tough sell and quite expensive. Just trying to look down other avenues since I'm not getting what i want out of already made products.
Audiophiles have been chasing that goal from the beginning. Nothing is perfect. When man fixes a problem, he creates another one. I am afraid you are going to have to pick your potion. Happy trails.
I dont expect anything to be perfect, but the trade offs in estat land are far greater than they they are for conventional amps IME. This is especialy true at the top end. In conventional amps you get gear that will focus on one thing or another and not be top of tier in a few places. In estats you get a focus so hard that one or two traits are genuinely tiers below other qualities. This is acceptable to me in some places, but unfortunately, all of the basically 4 TOTL options have these determents in places I care about quite a bit. I vaugely just with riviera audio made an enegizer since I love the pants off their stuff, but not on the table unfortunately.
While the Carbon CC is solid, tbh, I think its below the Z10e performance wise (outside of raw slam) which is what im trying to upgrade from.
I am going up to the manufacturer to hear this prototype.


This is another that is in the prototype phase from another manufacturer.

Please keep me updated on the new RSA impressions! I am quite currious about that one tbh.

as for the grand cayman, tbh, it was seriously lacking bass control with shang sr, so its just off the table for my tastes.
Are Stax's amplifiers that bad that none of them are under consideration?
They are alright in the lower end, but tbh, their energizers are not price competitive basically at all, much the less compete at the very top end (their highest end enegizer is a pretty big technical step below my current enegizer that is ~5500 after discount for example)
 

JackD201

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Oh cool. Thanks for the reply :)
 
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Gregadd

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Finding an amp for you resembles developing a cure for an orphan disease. ;)
Bon chance.
 

Alrainbow

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Headfi is the place to read up on reviews both pros and owners
I have 2 phones very different and need an amp to sound so. but the source can be helpful it making a tonal difference
to me lastly a neutral amp is best to start with and
Make tonal changes before or after on cans.
stats are available in many flavors but there are some non stat cans that have arrived at Stat level of details.
laslty jam can events or audio shows are now great on personal audio now
May I ask what you own now source included
And what you want in sound and what you have.
 

Atmasphere

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I have looked at DIY but TBH, its kinda tough for me to judge what may be worth while and what wont be design wise, and I've yet to see a DIY besides T2 that people even begin to claim compete at the level im looking at TBH
The reason I pointed out that link to you is that as a manufacturer of triode OTLs for the last 50 years, this project looks excellent for the task you stated.

What will define it as up to the 'level' you're 'looking at' will be how committed you are to a decent chassis and parts. High end is driven by intention more than anything else. The sooner you understand that simple fact the sooner you can get something going.
 

eskamobob1

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Oh cool. Thanks for the reply :)
np! Sorry for the delay. I don't check this forum all that often tbh.
Finding an amp for you resembles developing a cure for an orphan disease. ;)
Bon chance.
Ironic signature.
Headfi is the place to read up on reviews both pros and owners
I have 2 phones very different and need an amp to sound so. but the source can be helpful it making a tonal difference
to me lastly a neutral amp is best to start with and
Make tonal changes before or after on cans.
stats are available in many flavors but there are some non stat cans that have arrived at Stat level of details.
laslty jam can events or audio shows are now great on personal audio now
May I ask what you own now source included
And what you want in sound and what you have.
I am an avid headfi consumer! Also use some other forums to a lesser extent, but HF is for sure the best place to energizer information that ive found.

As for my chain, I currently run the following:
* PC with USB out (FTA Calisto)
* Totaldac D1-Digital with AES out (totaldac UP12 AES)
* Totaldac D1- Dual with XLR to Z10E (Double helix cables Prion 4S) and RCA to Riviera AIC 10 (cheap worlds best RCAs cause my good ones are too short and I am waiting for a decent deal)
* Z10E to Hifiman Shangrila SR and Stax OG Omega
* AIC-10 (DHC Cimera Speaker tap to HP cable) to Susvara or Woo Wee (for the estats)

For power I use an old furman 15FI and JPS AC power cords everywhere. This will be upgraded to either a powerplant P12 or a niagara 3000 on short order though (within the next month). Better power cables will likely wait for a few months though.

I am looking to upgrade my digital side, but being a bit indecisive. Unfortunately I cant use a streamer since I cant add anything to my work network, so I'm stuck with USB into whatever I use. I also have a Holo Red DDC and a rockna wavedream I'm playing with, but I think the ultimate plan is to upgrade to the most current TD reclocker and the triunity currently. Just need to nail down a couple other things first.

As for canjams, I go to as many as I cant to hang out with the community, but tbh, they aren't super useful for really judging source gear outside of painting with broad strokes just do to the noise level on the floor. Ive been lucky enough to have quite a bit of time on 3ES Elite but its on a chain that prioritized detail so highly that it ended up quite dry and brittle which im not a fan of. T2 I think has the most chance of being what I want since it does give shang decent impact, but ive heard from several people that I trust that own the chain that it doesnt quite get the sub-bass extension that I want (which is my real complaint currently, much more so than impact).

Overall, what I really want out of shang, is just what I have + the sub bass rumble of AIC -> Susvara. I already know that its possible since AIC -> IFI iESL gives it that, but that transformer unfortunately sacrifices so much stage and detail that I end up preferring susvara. Woo Wee has similar stage and detail off of AIC to Z10E but lacks a bit of bass extension and speed. Given that Viva STX has TOTL technicalities and is transformer coupled, a better transformer is something I am pursuing but I cant seem to find any options that I haven't already tried and while im open to a custom one-off I cant find anyone who I even vaugely trust to have the level of estat experience to know what im looking for (there are a couple of DIYers like Mjolnir Audio with a lot of experience but our experience with different amps are so fundamentally opposed I dont trust them to make a transformer that i like)
The reason I pointed out that link to you is that as a manufacturer of triode OTLs for the last 50 years, this project looks excellent for the task you stated.

What will define it as up to the 'level' you're 'looking at' will be how committed you are to a decent chassis and parts. High end is driven by intention more than anything else. The sooner you understand that simple fact the sooner you can get something going.
Honestly, I am just generally kind put off by the fact that its a KG design. I think ive owned 4 or 5 of his DIY amps at this point and another 3 of his designs from headamp and I've not been particularly fond of any of them, so I dont realy trust his designs to go for a sound I like. I tried doing some more research on the ones you linked but I cant realy find any impressions to go off of to make me comfortable blind buying.
 

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