Have VTL, considering Rowland M9TiHC... soliciting opinions

[AMP]

Hi All,

Currently I have a pair of VTL MB-450 Series II (autobias) monoblocks and will be taking delivery of a new pair of speakers in the coming months (likely Rockport Aquila). Prior to purchasing the VTLs a couple of years ago I was a dyed-in-the-wool Rowland groupie, but at the time the Rowland options available weren't to my liking (not a big ICE-amp fan).

I really like the VTLs and have been completely satisfied with them. In fact I've been planning to send them back to VTL for update to Series III (or sell them and replace with a new pair of Series III).

Having said that, I've always really liked the Rowland Model 9Ti amplifiers and I have a line on a pair of 9TiHC in perfect condition. These have been fully updated with everything that Jeff has ever offered for them (switching power supplies have replaced batteries, etc). Five years ago I would have jumped on them without thinking, but now I wonder if they make sense.

So, does anyone out there have experience comparing the modern VTL products to the older Rowland 9Tis?

For reference, at one time or another I've had the following Rowland amps in my system: M9T, M8, M112, M12, M301, M501, M201. From past comparisons I feel that the M9TiHC has a similar overall characteristic to the M12, but with vastly better dynamic control.

 

[DaveyF]

Amp, I think that the model 9 and the model 8 are still at or near the best that Jeff ever produced.
The 9TiHC's are great amps IMHO. VERY hard to improve on in the ss realm ,even today. Your VTL's are also nice, not sure why you would like to upgrade them.
OTOH, when I have AB'ed other VTL's against my model 8 with choke, I have always preferred my 8 in my system. Albeit, I have not done an AB of the MB-450's against the 8--so cannot say from that standpoint.
I do agree that the ICE amps are not 'my cup of tea' either. IMO, Jeff stepped backwards in a BIG way when he went with that topology
His new amps the 625 and 925's are supposed to be something else again....I would listen to those if you have a chance before committing to the 9.

 

[AMP]

Amp, I think that the model 9 and the model 8 are still at or near the best that Jeff ever produced.
The 9TiHC's are great amps IMHO. VERY hard to improve on in the ss realm ,even today. Your VTL's are also nice, not sure why you would like to upgrade them.

The thought really comes from cost associated with the Series III update of the 450s. Retail is $7500 + freight both ways... so figure $9250 once tax and shipping are accounted for. That's a hefty price considering what I paid for them new.

From there I start thinking about the current capabilities of the 450s.... They have tons of power, but in an off handed conversation with someone intimately familiar with the design the comment was made that they do start to lose steam when paired with a more demanding speaker.

Finally, I live in a very warm climate and in a month or so I'll have no need for the 16 power tubes dumping heat into the room. It's 35 degrees outside right now, the furnace is set very low and it's 76 degrees in the listening room. What will it be like when it's 105 outside?

OTOH, when I have AB'ed other VTL's against my model 8 with choke, I have always preferred my 8 in my system. Albeit, I have not done an AB of the MB-450's against the 8--so cannot say from that standpoint.
I do agree that the ICE amps are not 'my cup of tea' either. IMO, Jeff stepped backwards in a BIG way when he went with that topology
His new amps the 625 and 925's are supposed to be something else again....I would listen to those if you have a chance before committing to the 9.

I am very interested in the 625 and 925. I don't think that the 625 will have the power needed and the 925 is just crazy-expensive.

I've always lusted after the 9TiHCs as they were Jeff's last statement design... If I didn't like the VTLs so much I don't even think that I'd be asking this question here.

 

[DaveyF]

I do commiserate with you regarding the upgrade cost of the 450's
I also agree that a hot running tube amp isn't a great thing in a hot climate.
You may want to wait till you get your new speakers before jumping into the
next amp, if that is possible. The Rockports I have heard do work very well with
tube amps.BTW, I would be a little surprised if the 625 couldn't drive the Rockports well;
although I guess that depends on your room size and how loud you like to listen.
One thing is for sure in my mind, you cannot really go wrong with the 9's...as I said before
a great amp.

 

[microstrip]

What is your preamplifier? I had some experience with Rowland amplifiers in the past and found they were not easy to match with other preamplifier brands.

 

[KeithR]

if i'm not mistaken---the only difference between Series 2 and 3 on the 450s is a balanced circuit.

why not just sell the Series 2s and pick up an S400 or the monoblock version. if you like VTLs, maybe this is the way to go?

 

[AMP]

if i'm not mistaken---the only difference between Series 2 and 3 on the 450s is a balanced circuit.

Along with selectable dampening factor and an updated auto bias circuit.... neither of which are show stoppers for me.

why not just sell the Series 2s and pick up an S400 or the monoblock version. if you like VTLs, maybe this is the way to go?

I've considered the S400 and they are cheap on the used market, but I like monoblocks (for no good reason) and the S400 does have a lower power rating. The Sigfrieds are a definite option, but now I'm talking 24 power tubes instead of 16 along with a significant cost increase.

I guess it's all academic at this point as I was just notified that the Model 9TiHCs found a new home while I was over-analyzing the situation. Oh well, likely for the best anyways.