Headphone King of Soundstage?

[thomask]

I received new Sennheiser HD 800S headphone yesterday.

Without any break-in, it did not show any hard edge.

Some IEM like Hifiman need more than 100 hours of break in before harsh treble is gone.

But after playing it for few hours, it seems to show more details and bass resonance.

From some review, I had expected HD 800S to sound bright and be prepared to apply equalization using Lyngdorf 2170 presets.

But driven by Chord Dave and Mscaler, it sounds neutral without any equalization.

I had played Chesky Jazz Sampler and Test disc to test soundstage width and depth.

It shows very sharp and precise focus but falls short of my 2 channel system in soundstage width and depth.

But placement of instrument is more precise with HD 800S than my 2 channel system.

When I play "Surround Sound Demonstration CD" by Telarc, HD 800S gave very exciting presentation with fast and tight bass and precise focus without any hard edge.

I have two headphones and one IEM to compare with HD 800S.

The first one is 1MORE Triple-Driver Over-Ear Headphones sold by Drop at 130$.

This is light, pretty efficient and excellent value at 130$.

But compared with HD 800S, 1MORE Triple gave loose bass, less details and not precise focus.

1MORE Triple is no match at all with HD 800S.


The next one is Empire Zeus IEM sold by Drop(1k$ and 14 drivers in it).

Zeus IEM gave more sparkle with nice details.

But without equalization of 3db down at 6khz, Zeus sounds too bright overall while HD 800S sounds neutral without any eq..

Nice thing of Zeus IEM is very high efficiency to be driven by regular cell phone like Galaxy Note4.

Thus I will be happy to carry Zeus IEM out of town.

The placement of each instrument is slightly more precise with HD800s.

I will prefer playing HD800S to Zeus IEM at home.

The last one to compare is Stax 009S driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

HD 800S gave wider and deeper soundstage than Stax 009S with more precise focus.

But Stax 009S give more musical sound with nuanced details, nice decay , more bass slam and texture.

HD800S give very tight and fast bass but not matching the authority of Stax 009s.

It bass sound like one note without texture.


The conclusion is that it is fun to listen to HD800S driven by Chord Dave and Mscaler with sharp focus, wide and deep soundstage and tight and fast bass.

But HD800S falls short of either Stax 009s or my 2 channel system in musicality.

I will keep HD800S for at least one year to enjoy its precise imaging.

Thomas

 

[thomask]

I am listening to opera "Aida" now.

The placement of each singer and instrument is so precise that it sounds more live than my 2 channel system.

 

[Legolas]

The Abyss TC is king of soundstage IMO (plus speed and real bass).

 

[thomask]

The Abyss TC is king of soundstage IMO (plus speed and real bass).

Abyss also has a good reputation.

But I am happy with soundstage and imaging of HD800S and nuanced details presented by Stax009S.

Thus it is unlikely that I will go for Abyss.

I may try out Rall Sr1a next year.

 

[Legolas]

I liked the Sr1a at Can-Jam London. It was a bit bass light though, not surprising as the panels are well away from the ears. It had great soundstage. It also needs a powerful speaker amp of 150W more or less. It had great speed, faster than the Abyss even. But I couldn't accept the loss of lower octaves. It's specs admit not much going on below 65hz.

I used to own the Stax 009 and had a series of Kevin Gilmour DIY amps built, ending with the KGSShv Carbon with 450v rails. I fell out of love with it, as the Planars caught up to it's speed, and they had real world bass and solidity to the sound. Electrostatics are great for micro details and speed, but lack soundstage (on the 007 and 009) and don't convince me they are accurate to the source, rather an etherial representation of reality.

The Abyss TC is the first planar that matches the speed of the 009 but beats it in all other areas. Interestinghly I heard my test tracks on the Abyss TC + WA33 at Can-Jam in the Woo audio room, then right next to it, the 009s + latest WES. No contest. The Stax sounded flat and lifeless and was not realistic. This after 25 years of owning Stax, I am the first to admit. Things have moved in the headphone markets in the last few years IMO, and the Stax have been static.

That is in my opinion. I would try the Abyss, it is remarkable.

One thing I found over the last year or so, all these high end headphones need a top amplifier, in the Abyss and LCD4 I prefer speaker amps off the taps.

 

[thomask]

I liked the Sr1a at Can-Jam London. It was a bit bass light though, not surprising as the panels are well away from the ears. It had great soundstage. It also needs a powerful speaker amp of 150W more or less. It had great speed, faster than the Abyss even. But I couldn't accept the loss of lower octaves. It's specs admit not much going on below 65hz.

I used to own the Stax 009 and had a series of Kevin Gilmour DIY amps built, ending with the KGSShv Carbon with 450v rails. I fell out of love with it, as the Planars caught up to it's speed, and they had real world bass and solidity to the sound. Electrostatics are great for micro details and speed, but lack soundstage (on the 007 and 009) and don't convince me they are accurate to the source, rather an etherial representation of reality.

The Abyss TC is the first planar that matches the speed of the 009 but beats it in all other areas. Interestinghly I heard my test tracks on the Abyss TC + WA33 at Can-Jam in the Woo audio room, then right next to it, the 009s + latest WES. No contest. The Stax sounded flat and lifeless and was not realistic. This after 25 years of owning Stax, I am the first to admit. Things have moved in the headphone markets in the last few years IMO, and the Stax have been static.

That is in my opinion. I would try the Abyss, it is remarkable.

One thing I found over the last year or so, all these high end headphones need a top amplifier, in the Abyss and LCD4 I prefer speaker amps off the taps.

Thanks a lot for your kind advice.

But I am still happy with Stax009s driven by Carbon amplifier,

Thus I may try Abyss on 2021.

I had tried hd800s to get the idea how wide soundstage it give.

 

[Legolas]

No problem. Keep in touch, I am interested in your journey.

 

[moby2004]

Did you ever try the Focal Utopia ?
This is the headphone I am using for two years now and I am enjoying it very much!
I quickly demoed the RAAL : extremely transparent and fast but indeed the (relative) lack of bass bothered me . However it was a quick demo so no definitive judgement.
The Abyss is definitely an headphone I need to listen!

 

[thomask]

Did you ever try the Focal Utopia ?
This is the headphone I am using for two years now and I am enjoying it very much!
I quickly demoed the RAAL : extremely transparent and fast but indeed the (relative) lack of bass bothered me . However it was a quick demo so no definitive judgement.
The Abyss is definitely an headphone I need to listen!

Utopia is not known for wide soundstage.

I am kind of soundstage freak.

Rall Sr1a offers unconditional return in 15 days.

I may audition it next year.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raal-ribbon-headphones-srh1a.890603/page-105#post-15278589

HD 800S driven by Dave and Mscaler sounds neutral with excellent imaging and soundstage which may be good for most of people.

But Stax009S driven by Carbon amplifier give much more musical sound.

 

[thomask]

https://forum.headphones.com/t/schi...e-raal-sr1a-amplifier-official-thread/4094/20

Schitt had developed small dedicated amplifier for SR1a.

The reviewer is living in Seattle so I may drop at his home to audition it in near future.

 

[moby2004]

https://forum.headphones.com/t/schi...e-raal-sr1a-amplifier-official-thread/4094/20

Schitt had developed small dedicated amplifier for SR1a.

The reviewer is living in Seattle so I may drop at his home to audition it in near future.

Interesting

 

[thomask]

Interesting

I am curious too.

The only hitch is that I do not want to change equipment too often.

Even if I audition it at Seattle this year, I may give formal tryout next year.

 

[Sammy T]

Well.... found a killer deal on a next to new Focal Utopia headphones . Stock headphone cable sucked, went with the Black Dragon cable. After 200 Hours of break in, things are starting to be coming around. Running the Pass Labs HPA-1 head phone amp.

 

[thomask]

Well.... found a killer deal on a next to new Focal Utopia headphones . Stock headphone cable sucked, went with the Black Dragon cable. After 200 Hours of break in, things are starting to be coming around. Running the Pass Labs HPA-1 head phone amp.

I heard good things like details and dynamics about Utopia.

But Utopia does not appear to have wide soundstage from reviewer's opinion.

Also I am happy with Stax009S driven by KGssv Carbon amplifier now which is very musical.

No need to rush to other totl headphone.

I just want to have fun with hd800s since I could get a good deal on new one.

 

[bazelio]

Utopia has a distinct Be coloration. And for the "headstage" lovers (I am not one) it will seem mediocre. I do however think it's quite good in all other respects. But the Be coloration was an eventual deal breaker for me, and I sold it off.

 

[thomask]

Utopia has a distinct Be coloration. And for the "headstage" lovers (I am not one) it will seem mediocre. I do however think it's quite good in all other respects. But the Be coloration was an eventual deal breaker for me, and I sold it off.

I respect your opinion.

This Aperio headphone system also appears to be attractive option.

Exclusive: Warwick Acoustics Aperio Electrostatic Headphone System

24K$ is about the cost that I had spent on Dave and Mscaler, Stax009S and Carbon Amp this year.

But it is less than the cost of Sennheiser He1.

Sennheiser Sennheiser HE 1 - - In 1991 we created the best headphones in the world. We called them Orpheus. Now, we have done it again. The uncompromising philosophy remaining, this is Sennheiser HE 1. In otherworldly sound and timeless beauty. Perfectly engineered. Equipped with unique features and state-of-the-art technology.

Since my main system is 2 channel audio, I am not willing to spend 24k$ on headphone but it appears to be interesting.
​

 

[Sammy T]

My Focal Utopia headphones matched up very well with the Pass Labs HPA-1 amp. Depending on your music source, I found they image very well, sound stage is not giant by any means , but very enjoyable . Smooth and detailed , very lush sounding , zero hash, nor glare. Interconnects can make a big difference , using Tara Labs Zero Golds.

 

[thomask]

Yesterday, I auditioned Raal SR1a and Abyss Phi CC headphones at home of my pal.

I brought 3 CDs that I am familiar with to test tonality, focus, soundstage and dynamics.

I started with SR1a using Chord Blu2 and Dave as source and Chord Etude amplifier to drive it.

It remind me of Apogee Duetta Signature driven by Krell KSA 150 from 1989 to 1999 which use ribbon as well as Sr1a.

It sounds fast and open.

One may adjust the soundstage by moving headcup around.

But I feel comfortable with headcup in the middle.

The only nitpick is that it did not go very deep.

Duetta also went around 35hz but with enough impact.

The same thing apply to SR1a.

Schitt had made dedicated amplifier for Sr1a called "Jotunheim R. " priced at 800$.

My pal tested Jotunheim R. to give more full bass than Etude.


I will try out Sr1a and Jotunheim R. next year at my home.

I also tested same CDs on Abyss Phi CC connected directly with Dave.

This is my first encounter with Abyss headphones.

It gives excellent transparent sound with well defined spatial cues and nice timber.

But Dave is under powered to drive Abyss Phi CC with not much bass slam.

As I searched the thread of Abyss Phi CC I found that it need nice amp which may cost 5k$ or more.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-536


Updated Abyss Phi TC is known to give more details, clear bass than Abyss Phi CC.

I will try out Abyss Phi TC on 2021 after setting enough budget on it.

After being back to my home, I had listened to Senheiser HD 800S and Stax 009s driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

My source is Chord Dave and Mscaler almost similar to one in my pal's place.

HD800S is not in the same league as Abyss Phi CC not matching transparency.



But after eq with Lyngdorf 2170, it come close to Abyss Phi CC almost 90%.

Staxt 009S does not give sharp placement of instruments in 3d soundstage as Abyss Phi CC.

But Stax 009S is more musical than Abyss Phi CC with nuanced details and excellent bass slam driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

I have 41 years of audio history back to 1978.


Some people ask me what is the best speaker that I had heard.

It is the vintage Western Electric big horn speaker driven by restored Western Electric amp owned by my rich friend.

But it is unobtainable and priceless ( worth more than 2 million $).

I had been happy with Lansche 4.1 since 2007.

Lansche 4.1 driven by SET amp give most palpable vocals.

Also its active bass give enough impact.


It is hard to have several speakers at home with optimal sound.

But it is rather easy to have headphones with different flavor.


I can listen to HD 800s headphone several hours without feeling discomfort.

When I go out of town, I bring Empire Zeus IEM which can be driven by Galaxy cellphone.

I also enjoy musical sound of Stax 009s driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

Next year I will try out Raal Sr1a which remind me of Apogee Duetta that I had used happily from 1989 to 1999.

On 2021 I may add Abyss phi TC to my collections of headphones.

Thomas

 

[thomask]

Both SR1a and Abyss Phi CC give very excellent soundstage matching hd800s or better.

 

[moby2004]

Both SR1a and Abyss Phi CC give very excellent soundstage matching hd800s or better.

Thanks. Very interesting!
I definitely need to give Abyss a try !