Headphones and amps: where have I been?

[Alrainbow]

Your approach is what is needed. And another thought is to cut rather than add. Ex the HE6. Great headphone with a bloated bottom end. Cutting it at 140 db and below about 4 or 5 db makes them have more bass detail and more staging as the upper and mids become more apparent. The same with the LCD 3 except they also need a boost above as well.
A long time ago I had a set of Allison acoustic speakers . And they could be adjusted with some sw,s in the back. I ended up calling them for tech support . The owner answered the phone, his words remain in my head to this day. He simply said make them sound how you like , not what someone tells you. He also said wpuld you buy a preamp without and freq controls like bass, mid and treble. The point is we all want to think our system is pure and not needing and adjustments.
I have always used EQ from then on. I do not use it all the time with all headphones . As the stax009. I may add a little bass. Or the hd800 given the genre I might cutt the highs back a little.

Al

 

[Shaffer]

Headphone frequency response varies widely from neutral (unlike amps), and if you don't know what you're missing then no problem. For me to have some assurance that an EQ I design is doing the right thing, I have to make comparisons with several headphones and many music tracks, to zero in on a setting that makes the sound more neutral. There are a few people who may argue against neutral, but non-neutral applies the headphone's inherent bias (colorations) to everything it plays, which isn't good for a variety of music, unless the user's music selections sound pretty much alike.

Ummm...it's not like I've never used/owed an EQ. I own one now, actually, a parametric and use it for my HT sub. As for the rest, please forgive me if I don't take the time....

I will say, however, that knowing your cans are EQ's for review makes me not put a whole lot of credence into the content. Seriously.

Edit: BTW, I own the same Fiio POS as you, the piece you initially used to alter the frequency response of the cans you were testing and I know what I'm "missing." GMAFB!

 

[dalethorn]

Ummm...it's not like I've never used/owed an EQ. I own one now, actually, a parametric and use it for my HT sub. As for the rest, please forgive me if I don't take the time....I will say, however, that knowing your cans are EQ's for review makes me not put a whole lot of credence into the content. Seriously. Edit: BTW, I own the same Fiio POS as you, the piece you initially used to alter the frequency response of the cans you were testing and I know what I'm "missing." GMAFB!

You misrepresented me there. Firstly I don't use the parametric bandwidth of the equalizer, just frequency and amplitude. Secondly, my reviews make objective judgements of headphones played flat and compared to my known references. The frequency adjustments that come later are a good way to judge whether a headphone's inherent colorations are masking some other problems that would not be noticed underneath the spikes and recesses.

 

[Shaffer]

You misrepresented me there. Firstly I don't use the parametric bandwidth of the equalizer, just frequency and amplitude. Secondly, my reviews make objective judgements of headphones played flat and compared to my known references. The frequency adjustments that come later are a good way to judge whether a headphone's inherent colorations are masking some other problems that would not be noticed underneath the spikes and recesses.

I apologize for not being clear. I know you don't use a parametric; I use one, and have had a parametric EQ(s) in my arsenal for the last 30 years. In essence, you use a glorified tone control. As for your reviews, I've watched quite a few. You run relative mundane gear and then use tone controls to compensate for its shortcomings. This being said, such an approach is the status quo in the headphone community, unfortunately. After spending several months on head-fi, admittedly, I'm a little jaded. Nice to be back home.

 

[dalethorn]

I apologize for not being clear. I know you don't use a parametric; I use one, and have had a parametric EQ(s) in my arsenal for the last 30 years. In essence, you use a glorified tone control. As for your reviews, I've watched quite a few. You run relative mundane gear and then use tone controls to compensate for its shortcomings. This being said, such an approach is the status quo in the headphone community, unfortunately. After spending several months on head-fi, admittedly, I'm a little jaded. Nice to be back home.

You're once again misinforming readers with meaningless language like 'mundane' gear. The fact is, the amps I have such as the Microstreamer are quite sophisticated and also flat, 20 to 20 khz. My headphones, and *your* headphones too, are very, very non-flat. So maybe next time you can express your objections or whatever they are more logically and scientifically without using words like 'mundane' which just muddy the discussion.

 

[Alrainbow]

Why is it that just giving people ideas how to improve the musical experience provokes such hostility it opinions.
It is the same way with room correction or room EQ. I can live with other peoples ideas even if I do not use them or believe in them. But to degrade people just because they make suggestions to people just seems wrong. We all buy various interconnects to change our overall EQ sound don't we. So why is it if we suggest a more direct approach it becomes evil.
And this is headphones and most people here think that we are stupid to even use them. Anyway I read here to learn and I do even if no one agrees LOL.
Al

 

[dalethorn]

Why is it that just giving people ideas how to improve the musical experience provokes such hostility it opinions.
It is the same way with room correction or room EQ. I can live with other peoples ideas even if I do not use them or believe in them. But to degrade people just because they make suggestions to people just seems wrong. We all buy various interconnects to change our overall EQ sound don't we. So why is it if we suggest a more direct approach it becomes evil.
And this is headphones and most people here think that we are stupid to even use them. Anyway I read here to learn and I do even if no one agrees LOL.
Al

I'm not sure who you mean, but I don't read any hostility here. But I do read misrepresentation. So maybe you had a specific or factual complaint, or just a reaction of some kind? I can't be sure.

 

[FrantzM]

I would say that the HE6 doesn' thave a "bloated bottom end" IMHO this i likely the best bass in headphones out there ... Need however serious amp to get the best out of it ... Would suggest a tout amplifier such as the superlative Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 LFP-V edition or if one is looking for bargain the surprising headphone stage of a repaired vintage Yamaha CA-2010 (1978 ) ... This is likely one of the 5 best headphones on the market and IMHO does not require any EQ .. I tend to believe that Eq'uing is fraught with dangers .. One ends up too often with a pleasing but inaccurate reproduction that wears out quite fast ... YMMV

 

[dalethorn]

EQ'ing is indeed fraught with problems, and I'd suggest don't just do it and leave it. There are several followups that help to certify whether you did good or not. Rule 1 - don't overdo it. Rule 2 - on a variety of music you're familiar with, switch on and off and listen for the differences. Philips has a new test site that can help train users (free) on listening for colorations. Rule 3 - compare the EQ to any known/good references you can borrow or otherwise obtain, to see if your EQ is crossing the line from too little to too much. The best process is usually iterative, to zero in on the best sound over a period of time. Rule 4 - check your output curve - if it's too ragged or extreme it might contain fatigue factors.

But the bottom line is to listen - when all is said and done EQ can make the difference between living with resonances and colorations, or reducing or eliminating them.

Edit: For an example of one danger with (or without) EQ, read this:

http://dalethorn.com/Headphone_Volume_Hearing_Damage.txt

 

[Alrainbow]

Very good. Do you have the link to the EQ website. I have the top 4 headphones
Hd800 HE6. Stax 009. And He60 sennheiser . I have a msb stack with galaxy clock and UMT plus
Amps I have a few. Woo WES AND WA5. All upgrades. I also have a HDVD800. And a krell amp used for He6.

The HE 6 is a planar and it is bass bloated . I do like the way it sounds stock. But it is not flat and just cutting the bass a little increases the detail and speed. Even my lcd3 needs EQ to sound it's best. But I do get the point of making things worse . This is the point that I made this thread for. Getting other peoples I ideas about usage. But it is hard to get past people who are so dead set against it . There is good and bad in this but overall an education for all.
In fact I use headphones to get a bead on how a new speaker rig should sound. But overall speakers just have so much more detail .
Al

 

[dalethorn]

Here's the link to the Philips site. They're not doing EQ but their tests are pretty interesting, especially since the average good headphone has more coloration than Philips' examples (making it difficult to know which coloration you're hearing).

https://www.goldenears.philips.com/

Here's what I'm working on:

http://dalethorn.com/Headphone_Audioforge_Equalizer_App_Review.txt

 

[Alrainbow]

Thanks I will read up on it.

Al

 

[MrHeadGear]

Beyer DT990Pros is nice one. But its to expensive for me. For now, i love using my Marshall Major

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Very good. Do you have the link to the EQ website. I have the top 4 headphones
Hd800 HE6. Stax 009. And He60 sennheiser . I have a msb stack with galaxy clock and UMT plus
Amps I have a few. Woo WES AND WA5. All upgrades. I also have a HDVD800. And a krell amp used for He6.

The HE 6 is a planar and it is bass bloated . I do like the way it sounds stock. But it is not flat and just cutting the bass a little increases the detail and speed. Even my lcd3 needs EQ to sound it's best. But I do get the point of making things worse . This is the point that I made this thread for. Getting other peoples I ideas about usage. But it is hard to get past people who are so dead set against it . There is good and bad in this but overall an education for all.
In fact I use headphones to get a bead on how a new speaker rig should sound. But overall speakers just have so much more detail .
Al

It's amazing how that works. And it doesn't even require bloated bass. Best advice I ever got regarding EQ was if you're looking for a bit more clarity in the vocal range, before you boost, try cutting the bass just below the vocal range. It works better most of the time. And that, I think, is why many are anti EQ; they don't know how to use it and they don't understand that it can take years to master it (I'm certainly nowhere near it). But if you go very, very gently, and cut much more than you boost, you can learn and do a bit of good.

Tim

 

[dalethorn]

On this web page I show the EQ curves (in green) applied to 17 different headphones. The more recent that I'm most confident of are the Apple Earpods, ATH ESW9a, Beyer T51p, Bose OE2i, Brainwavz HM5, B&O Form2, Final Audio Pandora VI, Focal Spirit Pro, Harman Soho, Sennheiser HD380 Pro, Thinksound On1, V-Moda M80, Yamaha 200BL, and Yamaha MT220.

Those that I'm least confident of are the AIAIAI TMA-1x, B&O H6, and Phiaton MS430. The curves for these three are probably an improvement, but the headphones departed before I had a chance to perfect their curves.

http://dalethorn.com/Audioforge_01.html

 

[Gerzom]

Hi,
I've entered into head-fi about 6 months ago when I bought a Grado SR325i and a Schiit Asgard 2 amp. After a while I had the idea it could be better and I started looking for a "serious" headphone. After listening to Hifiman (he-300 and 500), Final Audio and more Grado's I fell for the sounds of the Audeze LCD-2.2.
First I ran them from my Asgard 2 (which is fed by mij Schiit Gungnir DAC) but last week I upgraded my Asgard to a Schiit Mjolnir and what a world of difference this was. Although it is not yet propperly broken in, the sound stage is much wider and soo much more details, sparkling mids and the lows........ WOW.
All in all I think the pairing between my Audeze's and the Schiit gear is awesome. It sounds very much like my speaker system (Sonus Faber with Electrocompaniet) relaxed, laid-back en it grabs you.

Few pictures of my current set-up: