Heavyweight amplifier showdown- Boulder 2160 v Wavac HE 833 mkII

[microstrip]

infinitely baffled,

Can you enlighten us about the differences between EM and EMIII? Is there any upgrade path for EM users?
Thanks.

 

[PeterA]

Well we just had no end of chat about how poor your choice of vinyl pressings were.

Yikes! I just bought a 3 disc set of Bach's violin sonatas on Harmonia Mundi that Bonzo recommended in another thread. We will see how that turns out.

Back on topic.

 

[bonzo75]

Yikes! I just bought a 3 disc set of Bach's violin sonatas on Harmonia Mundi that Bonzo recommended in another thread. We will see how that turns out.

Back on topic.

Don't worry. I heard those. Over there, I had particularly taken reissues to compare against the general's originals, and pressings from audiophile labels. I knew they would be beaten, though I had hoped not, as his are more expensive.

 

[bonzo75]

Yikes! I just bought a 3 disc set of Bach's violin sonatas on Harmonia Mundi that Bonzo recommended in another thread. We will see how that turns out.

Back on topic.

Though last week we ran through 30 different LPs at a friend's place and the HM 22225 viole de gambe one I had put in that post really stood out, so you should order that too

 

[morricab]

I heard the Wavac 805 monoblocks driving the Pnoes for a few weeks cos the General had some to play with. It was okay but was easily beaten on those speakers by the baby 46 Mayer power amp.

Wrong amp. You are referring to the MD-805 monos. I was referring to the, double or more the price, HE-805 stereo amp that is one step below the 833 amps in price. The MD amps are the "budget" line of the WAVAC range, followed by the EC range (like the well regarded EC-300B stereo amp) and then the HE range.

 

[morricab]

Anyway - we are all talking apples and oranges cos neither the Wavac 805 nor the Mayer 211 will do for the Focals. The Wavac 833 is obviously much more powerful and potentially more suitable though.

Wavac 805s, mono or stereo, are rated at 50 watts or so...that will work with Focals, which are like 93db or so sensitivity.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Ah okay. Yes it was the monoblocks and they were just okay.

That said I know for a fact that the General used to also own the Wavac 833 (not sure exactly which one whether 4 or 6 chassis) and moved them on. Maybe he’ll chime in on those.

 

[morricab]

Ah okay. Yes it was the monoblocks and they were just okay.

That said I know for a fact that the General used to also own the Wavac 833 (not sure exactly which one whether 4 or 6 chassis) and moved them on. Maybe he’ll chime in on those.

I am skeptical about amps with this output tube...it is not really amongst the most linear of tubes...they just want to squeeze power out to please the power hungry. The HE-805 is a better choice, IMO. I haven't heard the MD-805 monos...

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Yeah I wouldn’t disagree tbh. Well in fact personally I don’t get the point of those super powered SETs. Magmas were *very* rough indeed also.

I don’t think you’ll ever adequately power his big Focals with 805 SETs to the levels he likes though.

 

[bonzo75]

I am skeptical about amps with this output tube...it is not really amongst the most linear of tubes...they just want to squeeze power out to please the power hungry. The HE-805 is a better choice, IMO. I haven't heard the MD-805 monos...

Silver core does 833c with 20w

 

[morricab]

Silver core does 833c with 20w

That seems pretty conservative for such a tube even for Class A1. I think WAVAC must be driving to A2 to get even close to 150 Watts.

It reminds me of KR audio getting 22 Watts from the first stereo Kronzilla...it ran the tubes very conservatively and they lasted a very long time. Now they get 50 Watts from the same tube...and still Class A1! (Ok the T1610 tube is a double triode anyway).

 

[microstrip]

Silver core does 833c with 20w

We should remember that most of these feedback free SETs have an output impedance around 3 ohm - this means they probably will deliver half the power to typical modern speakers that have low impedance.

 

[bonzo75]

We should remember that most of these feedback free SETs have an output impedance around 3 ohm - this means they probably will deliver half the power to typical modern speakers that have low impedance.

His is made for horns afaik.

 

[morricab]

We should remember that most of these feedback free SETs have an output impedance around 3 ohm - this means they probably will deliver half the power to typical modern speakers that have low impedance.

Maybe on the 8ohm tap. Most have also a 4 ohm tap. Also there are ones with impedance around 1ohm or even a bit less without feedback.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gavin, can you expand a bit more on your claim the Boulder 2060 is more fluid. I'm assuming you mean it bridges the divide to tubes better than other heavyweight SS, and hence might be a great choice for someone like me who'd like to entertain the option of Apogees but can't abide the idea of giving up tubes.

Or do you mean it's unmistakably SS, but more grain free than the SS competition and hence has greater ease and transparency? But can't be mistaken for tubes?

 

[PeterA]

Though last week we ran through 30 different LPs at a friend's place and the HM 22225 viole de gambe one I had put in that post really stood out, so you should order that too

Just ordered it, thanks Bonzo. Back on topic.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Don’t get me wrong, I think you’ll love the Wavac for a while but when your mad man side comes out and you decide to really play loud then the Boulder will just laugh at the Focals and the Wavac’s lipstick will start to smudge.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Gavin, can you expand a bit more on your claim the Boulder 2060 is more fluid. I'm assuming you mean it bridges the divide to tubes better than other heavyweight SS, and hence might be a great choice for someone like me who'd like to entertain the option of Apogees but can't abide the idea of giving up tubes.

Or do you mean it's unmistakably SS, but more grain free than the SS competition and hence has greater ease and transparency? But can't be mistaken for tubes?

I believe that listening to the 2060 one would never think that you are hearing a SS design, but for the feeling of limitless-ness that Mike refers to. There are no restrictions, no bump stops to bounce off. This and the vast expanse of silence from which music springs would be the only giveaways that would cause you to conclude you weren't hearing valves.

I suspect you will redefine what you mean by a solid state listening experience. There are no negative giveaways, if you exclude the propensity to trip my house breakers maybe once every five times i power it up, the lights dimming as the soft start ramps up, and the visit to the oesteopath after moving it. Grain is completely absent, music flows with no restriction or slightest hint that electricity is involved, and with such exquisite delicacy that you will be struck by the incongruity of something so massive creating something so delicate

Ok let me have another go at that

When the 2060 is in play, i will never be driven to lunge for the volume knob because certain tracks sound a bit edgy when played loud. I will not find myself turning things down after a couple of hours at war volume because fatigue is setting in. I have never had another amp that i could say that for.

I predict your number one impression will be of effortless musicality, no matter your programme choice.
With dance music it is a force of nature, with acoustic music or solo performers it is intimate

Please forgive my mangled prose at this time of day

 

[infinitely baffled]

infinitely baffled,

Can you enlighten us about the differences between EM and EMIII? Is there any upgrade path for EM users?
Thanks.

I'll be honest, I'm just giving the full nomenclature. My understanding is that Focal have just released an Evo version. But again, i wouldn't know the difference between those and mine.

Sorry not to be more helpful...

 

[spiritofmusic]

That's good Gavin.
You do know I'm an osteopath, my advice is go IPod Nano w ear buds LOL.