"High End Dealers and You" - The "Hidden Rules" (At least for some)

[cjfrbw]

I am temperamentally unsuited for dealing with dealers, always have been. The grandiose ones will correct you if you don't address them or their products with certain kinds of reverence. I can't stand toadying along with that.

However, I don't believe in wasting dealers' time, either, and won't tire kick or give them the run around. That's why I like shows. Dealers can make a handful or more of deals and leave satisfied. I get to hear a variety of schemes and products. When I have told them I am just listening and not buying, I let them know to let me get out of the way of their paying customers and that's fine with me. I also prefer field trips with groups to dealer presentations so that they have a reasonable chance of making a sale for their time spent.

I have had some strange encounters with the hard core snobs at shows. Audio does seem to go hand in hand with certain character defects that can stick out like a sore thumb. They kind of amuse me because they are more like movie caricatures than people.

The famous audio critics I have seen at shows look like they bask in the attention they get, their narcissism gets a charge out of it. I would find that disturbing and dishonest, but that's just me.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The only dealer these days i regularly visit when i have a job in germany and who is someone who has something to offer me (i want) is :
Eternal arts in Hannover .
A repair shop / dealer full of tapemachines , measuring equipment , tapes etc

 

[cjfrbw]

The best audio dealer may be somebody who makes or made their living doing something else, and regards it as an extension of their love of hobby and equipment. I know the one dealer in San Jose became a high end dealer because his wife told him to take his hobby, hIs audio friends and his cigars out of her house, so he opened up shop and I guess didn't need to do it for a living.

 

[PeterA]

Same or different views? freely and openly is relevant only if discussed with people with opposing views

Doesn’t matter. I find you can either discuss stuff with a friend or you can’t. The point is that I can discuss more than just audio with him which is one reason we are friends.

 

[SCAudiophile]

Dealers can see you feast like a king

Hey....some of us resemble that remark LOL!

 

[andromedaaudio]

My favourite dealer was mijn hifi in nijmegen , now closed .
I listened to Avalon Dynaudio Halcro Chord Wilson , i bought some ML gear there .
I was allowed even to bring in some of my speakerdesigns once in a while which werent that good to be honest .
Very good service , good sound and a dedicated / noise isolated listening room .
Now the place is a home decoration store filled with furniture for sale , it hurts to see that listening room now stuffed with tables and chairs

Ps i might buy the place in the future and restore it to its previous glory

 

[Joe Whip]

I think we all have experiences good and bad with dealers, especially if you have been in this hobby for more than a few years. There are some I walked out of quickly because of their attitudes and others I bought from repeatedly. It would be nice if you are interested in a piece and heard it at a dealer to buy it from him or her and not seek the lowest price. There is no way at this point that I would buy something really heavy and schlep it up to my room. That alone is worth the price.

 

[Mikem53]

Dealers can see you feast like a king

Lol.. they realize he must put his money elsewhere..

 

[bonzo75]

I am temperamentally unsuited for dealing with dealers

As long as you are temperamentally suited to posting on forums, you are fine

 

[caesar]

My take on things, having 4 systems, is that the HAPPY people in this hobby are the ones who have money to get (close to) what they want, have the proper rooms/ real estate for the system(s) to express full potential, and who have found their tastes.

Once someone is clear on their tastes, they can seek out dealers who cater to those tastes. Unfortunately, most dealers today are clueless box-pushers. But the best, most experienced dealers, can guide the individuals and help them find their bliss.

Dealers must allow home auditions, and home auditions are a must, even for a fee. This is especially necessary for more exotic products out there. After all, how would one know if Absolare, Kondo, Engstrom, Audio Note UK, Wadax, etc., would work best for their high-efficiency system, as all these brands have many followers and raving reviews?

Although a dealer will not necessarily be your "friend" and invite you to Christmas dinner , great dealers can greatly help the journey - but only if you do the hard work and heavy lifting first.

 

[Cableman]

Went to a guys house in Switzerland. Multi millionaire. Set up costing hundreds of thousands. It sounded crap. He trusted his dealer he said, despite all attempts by me to dissuade him. It was truly awful.

is honest dealer an oxymoron ?

 

[caesar]

Went to a guys house in Switzerland. Multi millionaire. Set up costing hundreds of thousands. It sounded crap. He trusted his dealer he said, despite all attempts by me to dissuade him. It was truly awful.

is honest dealer an oxymoron ?

Did the guy feel that way also? Was he happy?

 

[andromedaaudio]

I d rather be a dealer in a 100.000 dollar store then one in a 1 dollar store .

Id telll ( sell ) the customer

" anything you want "

Ps taken from Zz top

 

[mulveling]

The first pics in this article are from my "home" dealer's showroom, right down the street. I built a relationship with them over many years now. Lots of trust going both ways. Well, well worth it. I did spend a few years doing the "2nd hand stew" thing via audiogon, and still occasionally buy a piece or two I want to experiment with that way. But my core system was built though my dealer, and I feel that my high level of satisfaction is largely due to that. They absolutely procure brands that sound great and work well together. Exposed me to things I wouldn't have considered on my own (e.g. high end racks) and soon couldn't live without. I have a paper trail for most of my significant investment and good assurances of continued support.

They're not my "best friends" as in we're not gonna ride bikes and drink Mtn Dews together every weekend, but they're certainly friends, yes.

 

[Cableman]

Did the guy feel that way also? Was he happy?

The guy had no idea about good sound. If he was happy then he was deluding himself. Ok I’ll rephrase that. He WAS deluding himself. Hopefully I put some doubt in his mind.

 

[stehno]

The guy had no idea about good sound. If he was happy then he was deluding himself. Ok I’ll rephrase that. He WAS deluding himself. Hopefully I put some doubt in his mind.

Do you think he was a lone ranger in this self-delusional disorder or do you think it's more common than anybody cares to admit?

 

[barryr1]

I see that my experience is quite different from most of the posters on this subject. I have lived in my community for nearly 50 years. I established really good relationships with the two largest dealers in town shortly after moving here having purchased multiple components from both over a period of more than 20 years. When cds took over the industry my personal career was more important and my system improvements went to sleep. Both dealers saw the climate shifting. Both are still now in the business but conduct most of their business as consultants acquiring systems with small brick and mortar outlay catered to the local climate which is now really more home entertainment Systems. The part of the business that they used to rule has been taken over by behemoth dealers who contract with the ultra high end manufacturers with exclusive contracts for the area and in the 5th largest city in the us are protected. If you would like to audition a component you may be the only shopper in the store that day. The dealer may be gracious and entertain your curiosity but ultimately his client is someone sporting a 2 nd or 3rd home here or a professional athlete and wants to drop 500000 to 1million on a system because he needs to have one. With population growth being the largest industry here there are plenty of larger spenders to help them make a good living. My system isnt moderate by most measures but i dont go out on saturday most weekends looking to buy a new system. I may want to hear that latest thing that i have read about and want to see how it compares to my component. Thats how i know i need an upgrade. There exists no in between here. Sure there are small dealers here but they dont have components that i would think worthy to replace anything in my system. The general attitude there is “sales like“ but certainly not warm. I have found a great dealer in the next big town down the road (400 miles)who fortunately carries both my speaker brand and the digital system that i currently own. He is scheduling my next upgrade and is currently intentionally holding my upgrade off due to his perception that there are issues in the upgrades. My local dealer wants a full deposit to order me a replacement tweeter. The guy in the other town has ordered my digital player upgrade with no paperwork and has ordered and delivered special order speaker accessories no charge. Theres service and theres service. Theres sales like and theres friendly. I have a dealer. He and i have discussed the effort that he has put into my system personally and i feel embarrassed to call him about petty issues. He expressed that he hope to win my business when i purchase something that he carries. He clearly indicates that he is not the cheapest deal. He is the best dealer i have encountered in recent years. I hope to make his efforts worthwhile when i make additional upgrades. He's in another state but thats what it takes.

 

[metaphacts]

..The part of the business that they used to rule has been taken over by behemoth dealers who contract with the ultra high end manufacturers with exclusive contracts for the area and in the 5th largest city in the us are protected. ..

Sadly, exclusive (entitled) territories have eroded service expectations over the past half a century. Better to remove geographical lines and set a dealer service standard well above expectations than continue to empower dealers who believe they "own" the customer because of his/her address.

 

[barryr1]

Sadly, exclusive (entitled) territories have eroded service expectations over the past half a century. Better to remove geographical lines and set a dealer service standard well above expectations than continue to empower dealers who believe they "own" the customer because of his/her address.

Unfortunately in my market place it's my opinion that the bulk of the really high end stuff sells itself because it's the only real high end game in town. Anyone who is in the design and architecture trade or a sophisticated user knows who has the product so that is where the high dollar players are directed and a listening room is only there for that final nail.

I feel certain that there are audiophiles who do go to such a dealer and are happy with the service and have a friendly relationship, however, they likely have significant wherewithal to go in for a review...hear what they are expecting.. and go out happy knowing that the dealer will bring and install competently.

I don't think that that is the routine audiophile's modus operandi. I may be totally wrong, but I feel that most audiophiles stress over each purchase and try, maybe almost daily to find some small detail that may bring them just that much closer to a natural sounding (convincing) system. They look hill and dell and new and used. I never met Dave Wilson but from those who I know who have spoken of him give me the feeling that his goal in life was to make the best sounding speaker that he was capable of. He truly enjoyed the music and the sound of the music. It lit his candle. No one ever mentioned his desire to make a lot of money but I suspect it was secondary to him. He probably liked it. But his part of the business was the sound. Now that's just my opinion. The reason that I say this is when Dave was trying to make the best speaker that he could, with limited resources, he likely used whatever he could find to get there. That's natural. The way even the WBF heads talk about the secondary market, whether it's buying or selling on it.

Nobody wants to be taken advantage of. And to expect to go to a dealer and just milk him and then buy your gear elsewhere is not kind. In the "old days" dealers had great equipment, new and used. You didn't have to go to the internet (there was no internet) to find a great piece of used high end gear. Yes, the local dealer does have a few pieces of used gear. They aren't ready for demo and it really isn't what they want to sell. I don't intend for this to be a "beat up the dealer" post, and I understand that real estate (showroom space) costs money. The margin on used equipment likely isn't the same as on used gear. It's all common sense economics. But if your aspirations are to own say wilson alex v and you don't have the 135k today, in about 5 years, a used set will be much more economical... maybe 65k and still every bit as good as they are today. Maybe not "state of the art" but still outrageous speakers. You may say to yourself, do I want the best speaker from 5 years ago with little use on them or a new set of a much scaled down version that the dealer has...say an Alexia 3? at comparatively the same price. I specifically remember a set of xlf's on one of the primary online sites at a substantially discounted price. They were in the owners summer home and rarely used. How do you really stack that up against a dealer who has only brand new alex v and xvx. I suspect that it's really hard for a truly High end dealer to cover both bases.

It isn't that hard to see why the dealer doesn't want to deal with much used gear (or the buyers who may want it) nor does the manufacturer want to have that competition of their own product. I can see that it's a difficult mountain to climb. Unfortunately, guys who have the top top equipment on the secondary market (dealers) often don't have showrooms and they are scattered. It's hard to develop that friend relationship and to build that trust locally.

 

[Gregadd]

I recall my friend thinking the hot bartender was into him. IME she works for tips. The nicer she is the more likely customers are to return. The nicer she is the bigger her tits. I mean tips.