Personally, I’d prefer the 1.2M, as you get to place the power supply/supplies and the DAC on different levels of the rack rather than stacking them.
High Performance DC cable for MSB DAC by Angus Leung and Westminster Lab Takes My System to Another Level
- Thread starter Mobiusman
- Start date
Right now stacking isn't an issue for me with stock .6m cords. 3 shelfs, one for dac and one for each power base.
So is there any sonic difference in length?
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Angus
this cable fascinates me and with Russ being one of my closest friends who I feel is a great listener and articulates very well as to what he hears I have to congratulate you on such an innovative product. I’m interested in knowing more. So without giving away anything proprietary is there anything about this cable and it’s design that you can share with me and other interested readers
TIA
As another day passes of break-in and my DAC receiving new firmware, which removes the volume control from the signal path and performance improvement top to bottom. All I can say is it just keeps getting, while maintaining the same very special sonics that have me so captivated.
This without a doubt has been the most unique review/post I have ever written and touched me like no other!!!!
This without a doubt has been the most unique review/post I have ever written and touched me like no other!!!!
We have some demos of the REIs in-route. They should be here in the house by Friday. We’re excited to listen to this amp.
I feel like a broken record-the sound keeps improving becoming more 3-D and the bass is moving into totally amazing territory with regard to depth and detail. Truly amazing!
It's been a busy few days at the Westminster shop. Angus and found time to dig into this question late last night. Here's a brief synopsis of our call.
Q: Is there a sonic difference between the different lengths of DC cables?
A: Sonic differences between the two lengths are possible depending upon the spacing between the Power Base and the DAC. With the power supply further away from the DAC, some of our clients in HK believe that by further separating the MSB PS and DAC there may be an added reduction in the noise floor. Generally, in cases like these one would conclude shorter is better, so if you have your DAC placed on a different shelf (and the shorter cable is long enough) you will be good. Mobiusman's comments are based on the 1.2-meter length.
The MSB Hybrid power cable and also the LUMIN DC cable that we made uses the same alloy as the rest of our cable line. We have optimised the gauge of the conductor, the materials of the dielectric and also the geometry of the proprietary "variable-twist" and the overall structure of the cable for "DC" application. And of course every single one of them is hand-made, as in the process of polish, applying coating, tubing etc.
Every single type of cables we make has a unique combo of material, gauge, dielectric, geometry and structure, and this is quite rare in the industry.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I guess the next obvious question is “ are they optimized for only MSB or can they be used for other manufacturers “
So far the formular that we are using is optimised for low voltage and small current. For other application with higher current or voltage, a different strategy may have to be used.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Russ,
Firstly let me wish you well with your recovery…..sounds like you've been through a really rough patch lately.
I was fascinated to read about your experience with the Westminster DC cable, as your descriptions very much parallel my own experience.…..that is, being absolutely knocked out by the profound improvement a DC cable outside of the signal path made to my own system.
Let me first describe the improvements: The sound took on a purity I had never heard before in recorded music, it felt like I could hear every minute detail of the fabric and texture of the music. Then there was the holographic nature of the instruments playing the music. Immersing the listener with spatial detail and a sense of realism giving the music a sense of being palpably present in the performance venue or engineered acoustic. There was a sense of physicality about the music….like you feel as much as hear the music. Especially true of bass notes, but no less dramatic with acoustic elements that seemed to literally possess and change the air in the performance environment. Finally there was the sound’s ability to immediately grab my attention and not let go, while generating intense feelings and emotions.
The cable itself was made by Nenon, a regular contributor to the Acoustic Style forums and a vastly experienced audiophile with decades of experience in DIY hi-fi, who is an inveterate experimenter. The cable is hand built using cores of Mundorf Silver/Gold cable, wrapped in natural fibre sleeve then double shielded using the JSSG360 (John Swenson) developed recipe, terminated using silver solder to low impedance connectors.
The initial 2 cables were used between 2 Sean Jacobs DC3 power supplies, an AQVox SE switch and a modified TPLink RE650 Bridge. I was already using very good Neotech cables built by Ghent, so I was not expecting major changes, especially since these cables were used to power network components and were well outside of the signal path.
Given that my first experience was so delightfully surprising I asked Nenon to build 2 more to which he kindly agreed. My network, including all its power supplies are now wired exclusively with Mundorf Ag/Au cable. Each addition brought increased goodness, with no hint of any negative downsides as the quantity and prevalence of the cable increased. The one downside is that these cables do take a long time to reach the pinnacle of their performance.…months rather than weeks.
For anyone interested, Nenon published a DIY guide on how to construct his DC cables
Building a DIY Music Server
audiophilestyle.com
So Russ, wishing you many more happy years listening to music.
Firstly let me wish you well with your recovery…..sounds like you've been through a really rough patch lately.
I was fascinated to read about your experience with the Westminster DC cable, as your descriptions very much parallel my own experience.…..that is, being absolutely knocked out by the profound improvement a DC cable outside of the signal path made to my own system.
Let me first describe the improvements: The sound took on a purity I had never heard before in recorded music, it felt like I could hear every minute detail of the fabric and texture of the music. Then there was the holographic nature of the instruments playing the music. Immersing the listener with spatial detail and a sense of realism giving the music a sense of being palpably present in the performance venue or engineered acoustic. There was a sense of physicality about the music….like you feel as much as hear the music. Especially true of bass notes, but no less dramatic with acoustic elements that seemed to literally possess and change the air in the performance environment. Finally there was the sound’s ability to immediately grab my attention and not let go, while generating intense feelings and emotions.
The cable itself was made by Nenon, a regular contributor to the Acoustic Style forums and a vastly experienced audiophile with decades of experience in DIY hi-fi, who is an inveterate experimenter. The cable is hand built using cores of Mundorf Silver/Gold cable, wrapped in natural fibre sleeve then double shielded using the JSSG360 (John Swenson) developed recipe, terminated using silver solder to low impedance connectors.
The initial 2 cables were used between 2 Sean Jacobs DC3 power supplies, an AQVox SE switch and a modified TPLink RE650 Bridge. I was already using very good Neotech cables built by Ghent, so I was not expecting major changes, especially since these cables were used to power network components and were well outside of the signal path.
Given that my first experience was so delightfully surprising I asked Nenon to build 2 more to which he kindly agreed. My network, including all its power supplies are now wired exclusively with Mundorf Ag/Au cable. Each addition brought increased goodness, with no hint of any negative downsides as the quantity and prevalence of the cable increased. The one downside is that these cables do take a long time to reach the pinnacle of their performance.…months rather than weeks.
For anyone interested, Nenon published a DIY guide on how to construct his DC cables
Building a DIY Music Server
Building a DIY Music Server
audiophilestyle.com
So Russ, wishing you many more happy years listening to music.
It sounds like we have had essentially the same experience with regards to the impact. Thanks for the specifics about the cables. Are we talking about the same cable that I thought was designed and made by Westminster Labs?Hi Russ,
Firstly let me wish you well with your recovery…..sounds like you've been through a really rough patch lately.
I was fascinated to read about your experience with the Westminster DC cable, as your descriptions very much parallel my own experience.…..that is, being absolutely knocked out by the profound improvement a DC cable outside of the signal path made to my own system.
Let me first describe the improvements: The sound took on a purity I had never heard before in recorded music, it felt like I could hear every minute detail of the fabric and texture of the music. Then there was the holographic nature of the instruments playing the music. Immersing the listener with spatial detail and a sense of realism giving the music a sense of being palpably present in the performance venue or engineered acoustic. There was a sense of physicality about the music….like you feel as much as hear the music. Especially true of bass notes, but no less dramatic with acoustic elements that seemed to literally possess and change the air in the performance environment. Finally there was the sound’s ability to immediately grab my attention and not let go, while generating intense feelings and emotions.
The cable itself was made by Nenon, a regular contributor to the Acoustic Style forums and a vastly experienced audiophile with decades of experience in DIY hi-fi, who is an inveterate experimenter. The cable is hand built using cores of Mundorf Silver/Gold cable, wrapped in natural fibre sleeve then double shielded using the JSSG360 (John Swenson) developed recipe, terminated using silver solder to low impedance connectors.
The initial 2 cables were used between 2 Sean Jacobs DC3 power supplies, an AQVox SE switch and a modified TPLink RE650 Bridge. I was already using very good Neotech cables built by Ghent, so I was not expecting major changes, especially since these cables were used to power network components and were well outside of the signal path.
Given that my first experience was so delightfully surprising I asked Nenon to build 2 more to which he kindly agreed. My network, including all its power supplies are now wired exclusively with Mundorf Ag/Au cable. Each addition brought increased goodness, with no hint of any negative downsides as the quantity and prevalence of the cable increased. The one downside is that these cables do take a long time to reach the pinnacle of their performance.…months rather than weeks.
For anyone interested, Nenon published a DIY guide on how to construct his DC cables
Building a DIY Music Server
Building a DIY Music Server
So Russ, wishing you many more happy years listening to music.
While one always acclimates to sonic improvement to an audio system to the point that they become the new normal, I am still hearing daily incremental improvements. What is still in full force is the tractor beam-like effect pulling me into my listening chair and rarely getting up in less than several hours!!!
Mobiusman, the Westminster MSB is a totally different design from materials to engineering. That said, there is more than one way to "skin a cat" in the pursuit of achieving better sound. Most of all, it's wonderful to see another validation by Blackmorec concerning the importance and impact a well-designed DC cable can have!
I thought I would provide an update on my experiences after almost 2 weeks with the Westminster Lab DC umbilicals in my system between my MSB the power supply chassis (two cables, one for analog and one for digital) connected to the audio chassis of my MSB Reference DAC . It is really quite simple. As the break-in progresses it is like having a knob that would control the sound stage and its content. As a result, it demands your attention more each day and off you go, while the total effect noticeably improves at least every 2 days, if not daily.
No point in trying to resist the tractor beam effect, it is so strong and enjoyable!
No point in trying to resist the tractor beam effect, it is so strong and enjoyable!
My final conclusion, at least thus far-----
You all know that I love the soundstage and imaging improvements that have come with the Westminster Labs DC cables. I am trying to get my mind around what the system's sonic presentation is doing to me, because it is totally unique, for me and the perfect way to get out of my head as I try to /sort things out for the balance of my life. The emotional impact is probably largely because of its ability to instantly get me out of my head, better than anything else I have encountered. It is like a life panacea!
But I think the core benefit is that there is so much newly available data from it's hiding place in the noise floor. The new data fits in and massively supplements and enhances what I already had. It is all arranged perfectly, making my brain react as if it is live. This realness has such a profound impact on me that it instantly shifts my total being!
What is truly amazing, and I know I am repeating myself, is the sonic presentation is so data rich and massively and perfectly integrated into the rest of my system. Literally, immediately upon first listening I am instantly back in the great listening space I now always associate with my system, and love.
Said another way, inserting thiese cables transformed my system into the perfect life tool I needed to help me sort out and manage my totally new life.
This is no small feat, especially considering how lost I was when I first inserted one of the two cables into my system, and how much better it became when I inserted the second umbilical into the entire situation. The net result is that I am able to prosper from the most difficult time of my life. It is a true bonus that I am also listening to a ton of music!!
You all know that I love the soundstage and imaging improvements that have come with the Westminster Labs DC cables. I am trying to get my mind around what the system's sonic presentation is doing to me, because it is totally unique, for me and the perfect way to get out of my head as I try to /sort things out for the balance of my life. The emotional impact is probably largely because of its ability to instantly get me out of my head, better than anything else I have encountered. It is like a life panacea!
But I think the core benefit is that there is so much newly available data from it's hiding place in the noise floor. The new data fits in and massively supplements and enhances what I already had. It is all arranged perfectly, making my brain react as if it is live. This realness has such a profound impact on me that it instantly shifts my total being!
What is truly amazing, and I know I am repeating myself, is the sonic presentation is so data rich and massively and perfectly integrated into the rest of my system. Literally, immediately upon first listening I am instantly back in the great listening space I now always associate with my system, and love.
Said another way, inserting thiese cables transformed my system into the perfect life tool I needed to help me sort out and manage my totally new life.
This is no small feat, especially considering how lost I was when I first inserted one of the two cables into my system, and how much better it became when I inserted the second umbilical into the entire situation. The net result is that I am able to prosper from the most difficult time of my life. It is a true bonus that I am also listening to a ton of music!!
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Hey Mobius,
once again this seems to parallel my own experience with DC cables In my system. If you look at my posts I stated that the typical hi-fi vocabulary was no longer adequate to best describe what I was hearing. The biggest and most obvious changes were in listener reaction in terms of emotion, instant involvement in the music and communication of the music’s message inner beauty.
My nephew is a recording studio owner and on listening to my system, stated that it would not make a good studio system as the music simply swept him away and made analytical listening impossible.
One of the biggest impacts was to music previously not wholly enjoyed, which became utterly beguiling as new layers of detail revealed spacial attributes and subtle inner rhythms and musicianship previously unnoticed and unappreciated.
How on earth a DC cable achieves this is not something I can answer but the changes wrought to listener response were truly profound.
Its worth bearing in mind that my experience was based on inserting DC cables into my network chain of modem, router, bridge and switches. Increasing the quality of the power supplies themselves brought very similar incremental changes….
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Hi Russ, thanks for sharing your great experience with the Westminster Lab DC cable. Truly sorry to hear what you have been through and wish you a speedy recovery!
I‘m excited as my Westminster lab DC cable will arrive soon for my newly acquired Lumin X1, will report my findings soon. In the meantime enjoy!
I‘m excited as my Westminster lab DC cable will arrive soon for my newly acquired Lumin X1, will report my findings soon. In the meantime enjoy!
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