Introduction of my new Antipodes K50 Music Server

[WAVE High Fidelity]

And just to say that there is a quick video on the Antipodes web site outlining the main features of 3.1.

It has a similar look and feel to 3.0 but my main hope is that it will enable us to use up to date versions of the server and player apps rather than the out of date ones enabled within 3.0. The mention of regular overnight updates being automatically pushed to the Antipodes devices using 3.1 raises my hopes that this will be the case.

See here for the quick overview video.

Antipodes Support - User Guides

antipodes.audio

 

[sbnx]

I wonder what we get with 3.1?

 

[sbnx]

Thanks for the video links. I will check those out.

As a side question...anyone here using roon for both the server and player? I have heard the HQ player or sqeezelite is better for the player. Any thoughts on this? Can I still use the Roon app to select the music I want to play if I switch to sqeeze or HQ? I never had this problem before as I used the Aurender which only offers 1 choice -- conductor app.

 

[Lxgreen]

I was actually just googling this as we speak. Currently I’m using Roon server and squeeze player on my K50. Control by Roon remote. The new videos from Antipodes says to use squeeze server and player for best sq but I don’t think I can use Roon remote if I do that but not sure so trying to find answer

 

[speakerlust]

I have tried Roon Server and Player, Roon with Squeezelite, and Squeeze Server and Player with my K50 using USB. For now I prefer the Squeeze Server and Player for sound quality.

 

[speakerlust]

I use iPeng for remote with Squeeze Server and Player with iPad and iPhone.

 

[kennyb123]

As a side question...anyone here using roon for both the server and player? I have heard the HQ player or sqeezelite is better for the player. Any thoughts on this? Can I still use the Roon app to select the music I want to play if I switch to sqeeze or HQ? I never had this problem before as I used the Aurender which only offers 1 choice -- conductor app.

Roon Server plus Roon player is the worst from a sound quality perspective. If you want to stick with Roon Server then Squeeze or HQPlayer will be the better choice with Squeeze being most transparent but HQPlayer offers filters that may be preferable depending on choice of DAC.

I hope 3.1 will include an update to Squeeze that will allow up to 768 kHz sample rates. I’m dying to hear my PGGB processed tracks played through Squeze (without Roon).

 

[WAVE High Fidelity]

I use iPeng for remote with Squeeze Server and Player with iPad and iPhone.

The Material web browser based file selection also works well and is worth trying.

 

[WAVE High Fidelity]

Roon Server plus Roon player is the worst from a sound quality perspective. If you want to stick with Roon Server then Squeeze or HQPlayer will be the better choice with Squeeze being most transparent but HQPlayer offers filters that may be preferable depending on choice of DAC.

I hope 3.1 will include an update to Squeeze that will allow up to 768 kHz sample rates. I’m dying to hear my PGGB processed tracks played through Squeze (without Roon).

You probably know already but I use MPD for PGGB playback on my K50 and that for me is the best sound quality so far but I am also hoping to play PGGB 705/768 files using Squeeze when AMS 3.1 arrives.

I totally agree with you on Roon sound quality. It sucks

 

[abeidrov]

I’ve tried Squeeze with Roon, but it does not support DSD playback above 64. I have many excellent DSD256 recordings and a few ones in DXD. Roon player supports native DSD playback up to DSD512 and DXD as well. Are there any other options for high rate DSD/DXD playback among the Antipodes applications? Thanks.

 

[speakerlust]

The Material web browser based file selection also works well and is worth trying.

Yes, the Material web browser works very well. I typically use it in my office from my desktop and then use iPeng with iPhone or iPad in listening room for remote control.

 

[kennyb123]

ICYMI

 

[Ratbastrd]

Hi All, interesting thread, lots of good information in here. Initial question for the group, I'm sure there will be more.

Background: In the process of upgrading my entire system to a digital only music platform, with some major components in place (Mark Levinson 585.5, Devore Gibbon X's, SoTM SMS 200, ROON NUC etc.). One of the initial observations is that the music server and streaming elements are woefully insufficient relative to the other components. Musicality is good, but noisy and harsh and not particularly satisfying. The SoTM is also one of the worst software platforms I have ever encountered. Its an interesting little device but such a pain in the arse.

Goal: Finish the build. I'm not looking for perfection, but to achieve the 90th percentile if that makes sense.

Questions:

1. My sense is that the digital music server space has three distinct levels (Low end = SoTM, Sonore etc, Mid tier Aurender, Lumin etc, High end Antipodes, Taiko, Pink Faun etc.). Question is, is there a distinct difference between the mid and high tier in terms of musical presentation, usability and general customer satisfaction? Ie: is it worth the additional cost to move to the high end (is it necessary to achieve the 90%)?

2. Between the Antipodes, Taiko, Innuos, Pink Faun etc is there a clear winner? Reading a lot of good feedback on the Antipodes, not seeing much if any feedback on the other systems, which may or may not mean anything.

3. If I have all of my files ripped and loaded on SSD's already, do I need the K50?

4. I like ROON but am not attached to it. The SQ seems to be suspect, and the usability is not all that. Is there an easy to integrate and manage alternative that provides for better SQ and relatively ease of integration with good usability? Usability is important to me, but not at the cost of SQ.

5. My ML 585.5 has optical, XLR and USB inputs. It appears from the reading that the XLR (AES) connection is the preferred path? Is it worth going down the rabbit hole of USB? Is there any material advantage and if so, at what cost?

6. Slightly off topic, but it seems that many people really like the Shunyata interconnects, how are the speaker cables, power cables etc? I'm a big fan of the OCC copper cables (Using Acoustic Zen Hollogram II's currently, probably going to upgrade from there at some point).


Thanks in advance!

 

[Lxgreen]

Hi All, interesting thread, lots of good information in here. Initial question for the group, I'm sure there will be more.

Background: In the process of upgrading my entire system to a digital only music platform, with some major components in place (Mark Levinson 585.5, Devore Gibbon X's, SoTM SMS 200, ROON NUC etc.). One of the initial observations is that the music server and streaming elements are woefully insufficient relative to the other components. Musicality is good, but noisy and harsh and not particularly satisfying. The SoTM is also one of the worst software platforms I have ever encountered. Its an interesting little device but such a pain in the arse.

Goal: Finish the build. I'm not looking for perfection, but to achieve the 90th percentile if that makes sense.

Questions:

1. My sense is that the digital music server space has three distinct levels (Low end = SoTM, Sonore etc, Mid tier Aurender, Lumin etc, High end Antipodes, Taiko, Pink Faun etc.). Question is, is there a distinct difference between the mid and high tier in terms of musical presentation, usability and general customer satisfaction? Ie: is it worth the additional cost to move to the high end (is it necessary to achieve the 90%)?
2. Between the Antipodes, Taiko, Innuos, Pink Faun etc is there a clear winner? Reading a lot of good feedback on the Antipodes, not seeing much if any feedback on the other systems, which may or may not mean anything.

3. If I have all of my files ripped and loaded on SSD's already, do I need the K50?

4. I like ROON but am not attached to it. The SQ seems to be suspect, and the usability is not all that. Is there an easy to integrate and manage alternative that provides for better SQ and relatively ease of integration with good usability? Usability is important to me, but not at the cost of SQ.

5. My ML 585.5 has optical, XLR and USB inputs. It appears from the reading that the XLR (AES) connection is the preferred path? Is it worth going down the rabbit hole of USB? Is there any material advantage and if so, at what cost?

6. Slightly off topic, but it seems that many people really like the Shunyata interconnects, how are the speaker cables, power cables etc? I'm a big fan of the OCC copper cables (Using Acoustic Zen Hollogram II's currently, probably going to upgrade from there at some point).


Thanks in advance!

I can share my experience with these products. I had a number of Sonore streamers including their too of the line Signature Rendu SE optical. It is a very good product. I used a Small Green Computer Roon server with disk storage. It is a very good product and responded well to better linear power supply. The Uptone JS-2 made a substantial improvement in sq. I upgraded to the Antipodes K50 Player/Server. I’ve had for several months and am extremely pleased with everything about it. Customer Service run by Mark C. is outstanding. To compare the systems I would say you would be happy with either. I don’t think you would get 90% from the Sonore system but maybe 85%.

I haven’t heard any of the other systems you mentioned but I have read on several forums that the owners are very happy with their choice..

I use a Roon core on the K50 server but use squeeze for output from player. I didn’t extensively compare. But short trials led me to use squeeze for player .
I use AES/EBU output from K50 to DAC (Bricasti M12) I slightly preferred this to the direct Ethernet to the Bricasti streamer.

 

[Tuckia]

Hi All, interesting thread, lots of good information in here. Initial question for the group, I'm sure there will be more.

Background: In the process of upgrading my entire system to a digital only music platform, with some major components in place (Mark Levinson 585.5, Devore Gibbon X's, SoTM SMS 200, ROON NUC etc.). One of the initial observations is that the music server and streaming elements are woefully insufficient relative to the other components. Musicality is good, but noisy and harsh and not particularly satisfying. The SoTM is also one of the worst software platforms I have ever encountered. Its an interesting little device but such a pain in the arse.

Goal: Finish the build. I'm not looking for perfection, but to achieve the 90th percentile if that makes sense.

Questions:

1. My sense is that the digital music server space has three distinct levels (Low end = SoTM, Sonore etc, Mid tier Aurender, Lumin etc, High end Antipodes, Taiko, Pink Faun etc.). Question is, is there a distinct difference between the mid and high tier in terms of musical presentation, usability and general customer satisfaction? Ie: is it worth the additional cost to move to the high end (is it necessary to achieve the 90%)?

2. Between the Antipodes, Taiko, Innuos, Pink Faun etc is there a clear winner? Reading a lot of good feedback on the Antipodes, not seeing much if any feedback on the other systems, which may or may not mean anything.

3. If I have all of my files ripped and loaded on SSD's already, do I need the K50?

4. I like ROON but am not attached to it. The SQ seems to be suspect, and the usability is not all that. Is there an easy to integrate and manage alternative that provides for better SQ and relatively ease of integration with good usability? Usability is important to me, but not at the cost of SQ.

5. My ML 585.5 has optical, XLR and USB inputs. It appears from the reading that the XLR (AES) connection is the preferred path? Is it worth going down the rabbit hole of USB? Is there any material advantage and if so, at what cost?

6. Slightly off topic, but it seems that many people really like the Shunyata interconnects, how are the speaker cables, power cables etc? I'm a big fan of the OCC copper cables (Using Acoustic Zen Hollogram II's currently, probably going to upgrade from there at some point).


Thanks in advance!

Many good deep questions. Here are some partial thoughts.

1. I'm source first. You don’t need high priced equipment to hear quality in a digital front end. Significant gains have been made in recent years so mid level can be satisfying. Old or low end digital needs smoothing. No thanks. Many others have said that the latest, best servers/streamers are the most important piece in digital based systems. I tend to believe this.

2. At the higher levels, cost/performance comes into play. I’d add the newest Aurenders to this list, particularly the N30. I know someone with a Taiko Extreme with the newest bits and an N30. He says the N30 is quite good, but not Taiko level. I like my K50 and find it satisfying, despite Roon. I’ve owned Aurender and do like their Conductor app vs. Roon. I’m somewhat guessing that the K50 is the cost/performance value leader of these units mentioned, especially at street prices. I’d own an Extreme if I could swing the cost. LDMS is another option to consider, if you have the time to wait for a custom build.

3. Not sure what you are asking. Having a ripped library helps with any of these units. However, the Antipodes units like to reformat a newly installed SSD. Be careful. Might need to transfer to an intermediate storage unit first.

4. The K50’s many outputs really help. Not sure of your ML’s preferred input. I’d say the very newest USB units are the best, but an older unit may certainly work best with AES/EBU or other spdif. Not optical.

5. I’m a new Shunyata convert. The Sigma v2 power cords are outstanding. The Omega USB is the best I’ve heard by a long shot. I bought one Alpha v2 interconnect and love it. Buying another soon. I’ve owned many OCC cables. Many good. The OCC conductor is just one ingredient in the cable, and not necessarily the dominant one. It’s the noise reduction tech in the Shunyata cables that sets them apart. Clearly audible, and in a good way. I stopped thinking about component upgrades until the cables are sorted. Each has been a discernable improvement in the system. I also owned Hologram II’s. Nice, but warm. The new Shunyata’s will surpass them in all areas.

 

[Ratbastrd]

Many good deep questions. Here are some partial thoughts.

1. I'm source first. You don’t need high priced equipment to hear quality in a digital front end. Significant gains have been made in recent years so mid level can be satisfying. Old or low end digital needs smoothing. No thanks. Many others have said that the latest, best servers/streamers are the most important piece in digital based systems. I tend to believe this.

2. At the higher levels, cost/performance comes into play. I’d add the newest Aurenders to this list, particularly the N30. I know someone with a Taiko Extreme with the newest bits and an N30. He says the N30 is quite good, but not Taiko level. I like my K50 and find it satisfying, despite Roon. I’ve owned Aurender and do like their Conductor app vs. Roon. I’m somewhat guessing that the K50 is the cost/performance value leader of these units mentioned, especially at street prices. I’d own an Extreme if I could swing the cost. LDMS is another option to consider, if you have the time to wait for a custom build.

3. Not sure what you are asking. Having a ripped library helps with any of these units. However, the Antipodes units like to reformat a newly installed SSD. Be careful. Might need to transfer to an intermediate storage unit first.

4. The K50’s many outputs really help. Not sure of your ML’s preferred input. I’d say the very newest USB units are the best, but an older unit may certainly work best with AES/EBU or other spdif. Not optical.

5. I’m a new Shunyata convert. The Sigma v2 power cords are outstanding. The Omega USB is the best I’ve heard by a long shot. I bought one Alpha v2 interconnect and love it. Buying another soon. I’ve owned many OCC cables. Many good. The OCC conductor is just one ingredient in the cable, and not necessarily the dominant one. It’s the noise reduction tech in the Shunyata cables that sets them apart. Clearly audible, and in a good way. I stopped thinking about component upgrades until the cables are sorted. Each has been a discernable improvement in the system. I also owned Hologram II’s. Nice, but warm. The new Shunyata’s will surpass them in all areas.

@Tuckia, thank you for the prompt and detailed reply. Some further clarification and questions:

1. It has been my experience as well that the ROI on really high end equipment is nominal. It is a matter of finding the right "value" point to achieve the 90th percentile (as I call it). For me, the value point is: A turnkey solution, ideally one box, well designed software w/ good UI, all of the necessary features/components to achieve best in class performance (or damn close), that doesn't require a lot of tweaking from the user perspective. It seems that the Antipodes, Aurender, Taiko, Pink Faun (and possible the Grimm MU1) all achieve this.

---- Am I missing any devices?

2. I have ripped all of my CD's several years ago and since sold them. I have no more physical media to rip, so I don't want to waste money on that element.

--- Given this data point, does this narrow or change the devices list I should be exploring?

3. I've actually had some real world experience building and selling high end audio devices, previously working for a high end Chinese transducer and systems ODM. We built stuff for Tannoy, B&W, Cambridge and others. One thing I learned working for some of the best (British) audio engineers is that high resolution audio is rarely worth the trouble and expense. In double blind test conducted (2014), using the best sound reproduction room in China, 5/47 (very qualified engineers) could distinguish the difference between HD and CD quality bitrate material. I'm not one of those guy's, so I'm not sure how much I want to invest in up sampling or high bitrate decoding capabilities. This would seem to indicate that AES/EBU or spdif should be sufficient for me. This would also allow me to avoid the rabbit hole of USB/Ethernet.

--- Am I missing something here?

4. Because I am (potentially) avoiding the USB/Ethernet quagmire, is a master clock necessary for my system? Some (not all) of these devices apparently incorporate a master clock, which seems to be an added value, but perhaps not for me. Is this something I need to focus on?

5. I've seen a few previous generation devices (Antipodes CX/EX, Aurender N20, Lumin X1etc) available at considerable discounts. Considering my needs, is there something in this group that jumps out as something to consider at the right price point?


Thanks again for your detailed responses. Please feel free to add anything you think I might be missing.

 

[kennyb123]

4. Because I am (potentially) avoiding the USB/Ethernet quagmire, is a master clock necessary for my system? Some (not all) of these devices apparently incorporate a master clock, which seems to be an added value, but perhaps not for me. Is this something I need to focus on?

One man’s quagmire is another man’s “this where all the advancements are happening”. Clocking is tremendously important to digital audio. There are actually multiple clocks in use as these are needed to keep the trains running exactly on time. Listeners have found a preference for Ethernet switches that have better clocks. Some of these have them built in, while others have a provision for using an external clock. I think it all depends on how far you like to take it. I’ve gone as far as an EthetRegen with a Farad Super3 power supply. But a big part of that is due to me occasionally disconnecting Ethernet when listening to music that’s stored on my K30’s internal drives. I use a Kasa smart plug to kill power to one of my network devices when listening and then power it back on when needing to control playback.

5. I've seen a few previous generation devices (Antipodes CX/EX, Aurender N20, Lumin X1etc) available at considerable discounts. Considering my needs, is there something in this group that jumps out as something to consider at the right price point?

If you can get a great deal on a used CX/EX and then have them both upgraded that could be an awesome way to go. It just depends on the total cash outlay and whether it makes financial sense vs buying brand new.

I will say also that servers is still a maturing market. I anticipate that whatever models Antipodes release next will easily beat their current models in terms of price performance. Whether you can bring your investment up to date should be a consideration.

 

[kennyb123]

. It seems that the Antipodes, Aurender, Taiko, Pink Faun (and possible the Grimm MU1) all achieve this.

I would put Taiko in another league. The Extreme is as the name implies - a solution taken to the extreme. Their aim has been to be more of a boutique provider: they provide a very high level of customer support with software and hardware that work together to produce the best possible sound. Antipodes hasn’t taken it to the same extreme and I don’t believe Aurender has either. I don’t know anything about the others you mentioned.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I decided to hold off with an upgrade on my CX and EX because I hoped to hear feedback on the K50 difference before taking that road.

I’ll admit I’m not at all a fan of switch mode power supplies and have something of an allergy to Class d in general. Not to say that it’s universally bad topology but I’ve always preferred linear supplies as upgrades when needed and possible. I’ve bought gear with switching supplies but have then been happier when I’ve upgraded with better linear supplies.

The power supplies in the CX and EX are highly spec’d and so to then go to a hybrid concerned me that it might be something of a double edged sword. That impressive crispness and apparent added clarity might appear in purely sonic terms… but then for me that approach can also follow with a feeling of ultimately being less connected in terms of musical engagement. That’s just me though. High end applications of switching tech are obviously used in some some very well reviewed gear but for me that gear has then not appealed when I’ve auditioned it… but this is just about preferences and possibly differing sensitivities.

Realising that I’m also factoring that I have settled into my happiness point with the CX+EX so while the attraction to upgrade was there the switching phobia is rather strong in this one so after plenty of tooing and froing (or internal switching) I’ve decided to hold off for a few more server generations.

Small shifts can seem like night and day differences to some though (and I get that) but perhaps buying a good deal low kilometre second hand CX+EX could also still be a good potential pathway. There’s plenty of good choices for servers out there now… I think we might actually be at the threshold at some level of digital maturity. It will still likely get better sure but perhaps we’ve also recently past the point where the technology has clearly been still immature over these last few decades. That’s the beauty of hindsight. We’ll perhaps only really know with another decade of digital development about where we are in that big picture life cycle stage. PS I’m happy to be wrong on that call though… gooder is still better.

 

[FredM]

@Ratbastrd
Looking at the chain, do you expect the Mark Levinsons internal DAC is on par with the streamer/servers? (I just don’t know)
It would be a pity if any connected digital source couldn't really shine. In case a higher level DAC is preferred (again, if) you could perhaps have a look at a servers with DAC, or good matching server/DAC combinations. A good listen at home will show synergies with your set/room.

Furthermore on the servers, you could add the Innous Statement to the list. At AudiophileStyle forum you’ll find a MU1 topic that could be interesting for you.