Is High End Audio Market in Recession?

[LanschePlasmaGuy]

In Australia all the new audio dealers and manufacturer's i've spoken to (other than one) have said the market here has totally tanked and not much is moving. Second hand sales have also slowed down hugely. Nobody in the industry likes to talk about it because it's "bad for business". The latest hifi show also had fewer rooms and smaller turnouts with lots of people saying it was not as good as previous years.

In saying that some of us are still buying gear (rullit field coils, Wolf Von Langa field coils and other bits and pieces but we are being much more targetted on our spends and you have to spend crazy money to compete with diy gear if you know what your doing and have been in the hobby for a long time and using cutting edge drivers and components.

Most of us who have been around a long time have a pretty good understanding of the classic and great sounding pieces and those still trade well.

There is so much over priced and over hyped gear in this hobby it's just ridiculous. I understand there are significant costs in running a business but ever increasing prices charged to customers with ever greater hyperbole to chase a ever declining pool of prospective clients i don't think is the best approach for the industry as a whole.

LPG

 

[jeromelang]

I'm getting brand new loudspeakers, and brand new 4-piece power amplifiers.

Then depending on the finances next year, maybe the Playback Designs MPD-8AI, and maybe, the year after, new Pass Labs xs level pre amp.

Upgrade to Bergmann Galder/Odin put on hold for now, so no need any phonostage upgrade.

 

[ChasFreeland]

There has been some slowdown here in Bangkok, but last week my audio dealer friend sold a huge McIntosh + Sonus Faber Aida II set, a wall full of electronics and $50,000 worth of premium cables. And the week before that another Aida + Pass XS outfit went out the door. The middle of the market seems quiet. Low end maybe OK but at tht level a lot of people just use their phones as a source for music. Just had the Bangkok Audio-Visual show here, but it was a rainy weekend and that dented attendance. The used market here also moves. I had no trouble unloading a whole Spectral system.

 

[Joel27]

I'm new to this forum but want to put in my 2 cents. I am 43 and was heavily into this hobby starting in around 08, since that time I had built up a what I considered a complete system. My hobbies then shifted as everyone's do as I became overly complacent and satisfied with the sound of my stereo. In the last 3 years I probably only turned the stereo on a couple dozen times. In June of this year I got an offer on a VPI Classic 4 that was too good to pass up. Since then I have probably put in over 250 hours of music listening any fairly short time. I say this because I am currently going back down the rabbit hole of upgrading components although I would not consider myself a rich individual I do have some discretionary income.

But what I also see interesting is I am in the car audio industry specifically in the retail sales aspect. Our numbers this year as an industry are down between 12 -18% as a whole. So I can say with first hand experience that people's discretionary income is certainly been diminished as of late. Items that are luxury/unnecessary are being put on hold or budgeted for on a much smaller basis. I am hoping this trend changes for the sake of the audio industry but I have also found that my customers are aging upwards and we are not getting nearly as many younger customers coming through the door.

My hope is that we can offer a listening experience that caters to the younger generation so that we can grow their interest in the high-end components that we all enjoy so much. We shall see but in the meantime I'm going to get back to enjoying my current stereo status.

-Joel

 

[Kingrex]

I wish, will be 55 on 12/10

12/10. Do you get the happy BDay/Merry Xmas, or is the gap large enough. My mom is Dec 28th. She got the short end of that stick.

 

[Kingrex]

3 years ago I retired and sold my home in NY suburbia which had both dedicated theater and 2 channel purpose built rooms.
At the time I had already started to become sick of spending stupid money but it was mostly the constant obsession with details that ultimately changed my perspective on listening to music.
I have a relatively modest system now compared to then but this system provides just as much angst and distraction than anything previous.
I am most connected to music when I listen to my outdoor stereo JBL Bluetooth speakers with my morning coffee or late afternoon glass of wine in my pseudo Japanese garden.

View attachment 140278View attachment 140277

Where did you retire to? Nice land.

 

[Another Johnson]

FWIW, daily living expenses have certainly increased. So if your daily living expenses cut into your discretionary income, these are hard times to build a system.

But if your daily living expenses are in the noise level of your total income, these have been good times. Stocks, crypto currencies, real estate, and interest rates have all gone up, and depending on your personal situation (mix of expenses and investments), you may be doing well.

FWIW#2, my dealer friends all think I could benefit from new amps and speakers… but I’m not interested because I’ve never had it so good.

I’m not doing much upgrading because I am very happy with my current gear and have no incentive to upgrade. YMMV

 

[Kingrex]

Interesting how different countries appear to be responding.

 

[caesar]

What are you doing relative to your question?


Me, I have been toying around over the last couple of months or so with adding analogue but staying under $15K. Not enough of the music I prefer is on vinyl so I keep wavering on moving forward with that. That said, I will continue to make purchases if I identify something that either will improve my system(s) , or simply want to give a try.

I am satisfied at the moment - no huge burning audio desires. Knowing myself, If I really wanted something - within my real estate constraints, I would find a way to get it

 

[caesar]

3 years ago I retired and sold my home in NY suburbia which had both dedicated theater and 2 channel purpose built rooms.
At the time I had already started to become sick of spending stupid money but it was mostly the constant obsession with details that ultimately changed my perspective on listening to music.
I have a relatively modest system now compared to then but this system provides just as much angst and distraction than anything previous.
I am most connected to music when I listen to my outdoor stereo JBL Bluetooth speakers with my morning coffee or late afternoon glass of wine in my pseudo Japanese garden.

View attachment 140278View attachment 140277

Totally understand. I love high end audio. But if it's great music, I enjoy it in a car, out of cheap airplane headphones or from computer speakers.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I have 3 systems , one is complete and I have upgraded everything over the last year, feel it's complete now, Burmester Reference and very happy. accuphase system in the works.......

The 3 system phase is fantastic! That was the second last phase for me in the great 7 year phases in the big audio itch cycle… that’s known here as the phase of many systems. It was an early to mid 50’s conflict phase and a wonderful expression of my shameful but wonderous full on audio indulgence … it’s the get it while you can still lift it and still (barely) move it all around the room phase. Guaranteed to bring on cardio over-excitement for sure.

I started out in the previous 3 system phase initially with just the Magnepan 20.7s (from the previous early panel phase and that’s what the middle of the room is meant for… for floor to ceiling panels)!! In fairly quick succession I bought OB horns and Harbeth 40.2s… glorious madness!

That crisis was followed by the race to eliminate choices and get things back down to just two horn setups before I’m too old to remember where all the other gear is… that is now transiting into the current move to a calm and reflective kick back and just be happy listening to music through one system eventually as a late autumnal scenic phase that I’m just making my way through now. The details may still change but the waxing then waning thing I figure could just be a natural pattern in the great audio wheel of consumption.

 

[Iamrael]

I'm getting brand new loudspeakers, and brand new 4-piece power amplifiers.

Then depending on the finances next year, maybe the Playback Designs MPD-8AI, and maybe, the year after, new Pass Labs xs level pre amp.

Upgrade to Bergmann Galder/Odin put on hold for now, so no need any phonostage upgrade.

Why?

 

[Rhapsody]

Data point from a US dealer- Since September we have sold 5 pairs of Alsyvox in the US (1 pair Botticelli X, 2 pair Caravaggio XX, 2 pair Rafaello), 1 pair of Magico M9 (will be installed in the next 2-3 weeks), 4 Taiko Olympus servers. Pretty much none of these buyers other than one buyer is on WBF.

<$50K type sales/gear =0 sales.

People with $$$ and there are a LOT of them are spending, other than that it's abysmal regarding the middle class.

 

[ssfas]

3 years ago I retired and sold my home in NY suburbia which had both dedicated theater and 2 channel purpose built rooms.
At the time I had already started to become sick of spending stupid money but it was mostly the constant obsession with details that ultimately changed my perspective on listening to music.
I have a relatively modest system now compared to then but this system provides just as much angst and distraction than anything previous.
I am most connected to music when I listen to my outdoor stereo JBL Bluetooth speakers with my morning coffee or late afternoon glass of wine in my pseudo Japanese garden.

View attachment 140278View attachment 140277

I had much more fun doing a faux Japanese front garden this summer. It would’ve been a bit more authentic if my wife had let me leave the red cedar wall unvarnished, because I was expecting after two or three years that it would go a lovely silver grey. She preferred it red so on went two coats of OSMO. I did most of it myself, filled two 7 m skips to level it, had to get in a brick layer to build the new walls. I made lots of new friends because everyone walking past stopped for a chat. The postman, in particular loves it. There’s a couple of bits to finish off because I didn’t have something to cut the stone, and hopefully the grass is planted in front of the cedar wall will get to 4 or 5 feet high next year.

 

[ssfas]

There are probably more people with high disposable income than there have ever been. We spend quite a bit of money on travel, the prices just seem to go up and the demand seems insatiable. We were in Japan in May, Italy in September and we’ve just booked a trip to India (Mumbai, Carla, Hyderabad) for January and no one seems to be struggling. We stayed in a hotel on Lake Como a couple of years ago that was €700 per night. A friend asked a recommendation recently, the same room is now €1200 per night, except there wasn’t a room available for four months.

In Italy, we were staying in a lovely country hotel outside Reggio Emilia, which is not far from Maranello. There were two brothers from Germany with their sons who had matching Ferraris and were on their way to the factory, presumably for an upgrade. The matching Ferraris cost €700,000 each. I received an invite yesterday to go and listen to the new dCS Varese system with XVX and D’Ag amplifiers. The DAC is £185,000 on its own and the whole system is probably the cost of one of those Ferraris. I would be surprised if the dealer sells more than two of those systems each year, whereas there is a waiting list for €700,000 Ferraris.

I doubt supercars will go out of fashion any time soon. They have real status value, just go to the posh parts of any major city or the Gulf. High end hi-fi, on the other hand, are aspirational products that appeal to an extraordinarily small number of people and most people think are completely crazy. Whether the bubble bursts, or slowly deflates, I can’t see much of a long-term future.

Personally, I think it’s the garbage like the $2,000+ cables, fuses etc. that do most of the damage. They are sold with epic amounts of BS, on the basis of a single review by some hack reviewer and fake science, a handful of people by into it, but I suspect that the advertising and media that surrounds such products put off hundreds or thousands of potentially aspirational hi-fi customers. it’s those sorts of products that I suspect you put off people having a genuine interest in hi-fi and make the product category look stupid.

 

[spiritofmusic]

There are probably more people with high disposable income than there have ever been. We spend quite a bit of money on travel, the prices just seem to go up and the demand seems insatiable. We were in Japan in May, Italy in September and we’ve just booked a trip to India (Mumbai, Carla, Hyderabad) for January and no one seems to be struggling. We stayed in a hotel on Lake Como a couple of years ago that was €700 per night. A friend asked a recommendation recently, the same room is now €1200 per night, except there wasn’t a room available for four months.

In Italy, we were staying in a lovely country hotel outside Reggio Emilia, which is not far from Maranello. There were two brothers from Germany with their sons who had matching Ferraris and were on their way to the factory, presumably for an upgrade. The matching Ferraris cost €700,000 each. I received an invite yesterday to go and listen to the new dCS Varese system with XVX and D’Ag amplifiers. The DAC is £185,000 on its own and the whole system is probably the cost of one of those Ferraris. I would be surprised if the dealer sells more than two of those systems each year, whereas there is a waiting list for €700,000 Ferraris.

I doubt supercars will go out of fashion any time soon. They have real status value, just go to the posh parts of any major city or the Gulf. High end hi-fi, on the other hand, are aspirational products that appeal to an extraordinarily small number of people and most people think are completely crazy. Whether the bubble bursts, or slowly deflates, I can’t see much of a long-term future.

Personally, I think it’s the garbage like the $2,000+ cables, fuses etc. that do most of the damage. They are sold with epic amounts of BS, on the basis of a single review by some hack reviewer and fake science, a handful of people by into it, but I suspect that the advertising and media that surrounds such products put off hundreds or thousands of potentially aspirational hi-fi customers. it’s those sorts of products that I suspect you put off people having a genuine interest in hi-fi and make the product category look stupid.

I think you'll find Jaguar will be as fucked as Bud Light after their recent, ahem, "inspired" promotional launch, lol.

 

[PeterA]

I think you'll find Jaguar will be as fucked as Bud Light after their recent, ahem, "inspired" promotional launch, lol.

Never seen anything more ridiculous. What were they possibly thinking? Doesn’t Ford own them now? That might explain it.

What is Bud Light?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Never seen anything more ridiculous. What were they possibly thinking? Doesn’t Ford own them now? That might explain it.

What is Bud Light?

Tata owns them.
The great irony of course, is that particular ad will never be broadcast in India, lol.

 

[ssfas]

I think you'll find Jaguar will be as fucked as Bud Light after their recent, ahem, "inspired" promotional launch, lol.

I just had a look. Personally, I think it’s brilliant. Jaguar is a tired brand, anyone in the UK will tell you that. This is pure rebranding, not least a new logo after more than 50 years of the old one, a pretty slick video that is clearly designed to take the brand into a completely new customer base. It’s controversial, divisive, has attracted a lot of attention and tweet from Elon Musk. I suspect that is exactly what they were hoping to achieve and probably consider it a success.

It is obviously not about selling a product, but about repositioning a brand. When they do actually launch a new product, and they invited Elon Musk to the launch in Miami, I guarantee you it will receive many times more attention than if they hadn’t done this rebranding exercise.

 

[A-Line]

I think you'll find Jaguar will be as fucked as Bud Light after their recent, ahem, "inspired" promotional launch, lol.

Can you imagine if a high-end brands like CH Precision or Soulution became WOKE & ran such ads? lol

In the US and parts of Europe/Canada during COVID they kept pushing the phrase "trust the science" regarding the shots & yet at the same time their priorities were focused on gender transition surgeries, men can have babies, trans men can use women's bathrooms, and defining what a woman is required consulting someone with a PhD in biology...

Suddenly the west turned into "The Rocky Horror Picture Show"...just saying.