It’s all so quiet at MSB DAC development…

[HughP3]

i have the opposite take on analog. I tried analog again after 30 years. $60k invested and It lasted about 6 months. It was not superior to my digital, it was far far too noisy. And with 1 in 4 albums returned due to defects I finally gave up. Putting the money into a Select II.

 

[tima]

i have the opposite take on analog. I tried analog again after 30 years. $60k invested and It lasted about 6 months. It was not superior to my digital, it was far far too noisy.

Not to question your choices, just an observation that any entry into vinyl should include budget for a decent record cleaning machine.

 

[HughP3]

Not to question your choices, just an observation that any entry into vinyl should include budget for a decent record cleaning machine.

Agree and i have a Degritter coming up for sale.

 

[Alrainbow]

let me say it this
analog good analog is music , digital any digital is where music goes being no longer music . a very well setup system digital or analog sounds great but at the first needle drop you wonder how digital was music . in a demo you play digital first analog second and tape last if you have a machine . for me i cant bounce back and forth it takes too long to flush out my ears from analog back to digital .

 

[Alrainbow]

I agree. I have an excellent digital system (EMM DA2 V2 —> Aurender N30 - in our tests the EMM was more enjoyable than the MSB Select). It’s top tier, but my TT system still out does it.

My dealer was at my residence last Friday. We streamed, “You Take My Breath Away” by Eva Cassidy (The Best of …). Awesome. But then I placed my new album by the same name on the TT. The differences were immediately clear to both of us. The vinyl had something that the digital just didn’t reproduce. More subtle enjoyable detail. It was simply amazing. (this has been an ongoing pattern in my system)

IMO, digital is digital and analogue is analogue. While you can get the two very close, they presently aren’t the same. I hope to add a VAC Statement Phono pre amp in the future. I can’t even imagine what differences will be apparent then. If I build my new room I’ll be adding a second TT as well.

This said, I use to think differently and I don’t mean to demean digital audio at all. Digital may be very, very good - and I could be content with it alone for the remainder of my life - but at present it’s still playing catch up to good analogue. If I could only choose one it would be vinyl.

maybe if you spend 150 k on one pc of digital it changes your view lol

 

[Audire]

maybe if you spend 150 k on one pc of digital it changes your view lol

Prehaps, but I’m satisfied with the my present analogue and digital sound. Both are real and absolutely alive. I feel as if I’m at the venue itself. But the TT is a step above … more detail and realism. A sound stage that won’t quit. This said, my digital it top end, but I’m partial to analogue. The sound, the sound, the sound; IMO there’s nothing like analogue.

 

[HughP3]

let me say it this
analog good analog is music , digital any digital is where music goes being no longer music . a very well setup system digital or analog sounds great but at the first needle drop you wonder how digital was music . in a demo you play digital first analog second and tape last if you have a machine . for me i cant bounce back and forth it takes too long to flush out my ears from analog back to digital .

Sounds rather absolute but glad you find good sound there. I find the analog experience the the opposite. it boils down to what we individually like.

 

[Armsan]

Prehaps, but I’m satisfied with the my present analogue and digital sound. Both are real and absolutely alive. I feel as if I’m at the venue itself. But the TT is a step above … more detail and realism. A sound stage that won’t quit. This said, my digital it top end, but I’m partial to analogue. The sound, the sound, the sound; IMO there’s nothing like analogue.

Still, with such a high level DAC like yours, if you have the chance, try in your system a Taiko Extreme music server. And, with the jump level Extreme is having right now, I think you’ll be closer to your analogue or, maybe, ahead.

 

[Audire]

Still, with such a high level DAC like yours, if you have the chance, try in your system a Taiko Extreme music server. And, with the jump level Extreme is having right now, I think you’ll be closer to your analogue or, maybe, ahead.

Thanks. I have an Aurender N30SA. It’s a world-class server, streamer, etc. It‘s musical yet very precise and detailed. It is excellent - esp in critical mode. IMO it’s sort of a digital TT. But while it’s very close it still doesn’t measure up to a J.Sikora + Opus1.

I was digital only for many, many years. But I can’t unhear what great analogue does in my system. If I could only have one type of music in my system it would be vinyl. The differences between great digital and vinyl are difficult to express, but once your ears hear good vinyl they are more pleased.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

i dont think any Digital can replace Analogue regardless of the DAC or cost

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I don't have vinyl and haven't for decades. But as you have an Aurender N30SA, it's not like you haven't tasted great digital. You like what you like, seems fair to me.

 

[lscangus]

i have the opposite take on analog. I tried analog again after 30 years. $60k invested and It lasted about 6 months. It was not superior to my digital, it was far far too noisy. And with 1 in 4 albums returned due to defects I finally gave up. Putting the money into a Select II.

Just to share my experience, please do feel free to comment, disagree and discuss.

I have always been a digital person and I often found digital media performs better than LP. However recently I have been investigating the analogue"LP" side of the world and I think the fight of "analogue vs digital" really does not exist at all. It all comes back to the music whether it had been recorded / master in digital or analogue. An analogue mastered music will not sound great in digital as the bottle neck is the AD and the mastering, and vice versa a digitally mastered music will not sound great in LP as the bottle neck is in the DA ( pretty sure they are not using a Select II as the DA ). And there are tones of mastering differences when in different era. ie. for old recordings, no one will apply a de-noise filter as noise are pretty acceptable back then, but when you listen to a modern recording, the background must be dead silence and hence some kind of de-noise filter or gate must have applied. And lots of important information had been lost tbh ( a good example is modern recording of strings like violin and viola ).

obtaining and maintaining a well preserved analogue media ( LP ) is a pain in the ass job. But if you have some recording or music which you like from the pre-digital era, you don't have much choice... ={

 

[HughP3]

Just to share my experience, please do feel free to comment, disagree and discuss.

I have always been a digital person and I often found digital media performs better than LP. However recently I have been investigating the analogue"LP" side of the world and I think the fight of "analogue vs digital" really does not exist at all. It all comes back to the music whether it had been recorded / master in digital or analogue. An analogue mastered music will not sound great in digital as the bottle neck is the AD and the mastering, and vice versa a digitally mastered music will not sound great in LP as the bottle neck is in the DA ( pretty sure they are not using a Select II as the DA ). And there are tones of mastering differences when in different era. ie. for old recordings, no one will apply a de-noise filter as noise are pretty acceptable back then, but when you listen to a modern recording, the background must be dead silence and hence some kind of de-noise filter or gate must have applied. And lots of important information had been lost tbh ( a good example is modern recording of strings like violin and viola ).

obtaining and maintaining a well preserved analogue media ( LP ) is a pain in the ass job. But if you have some recording or music which you like from the pre-digital era, you don't have much choice... ={

thank you for your thoughtful reply. not to turn this into yet another digital vs analog debate but thats where this MSB thread seems to have morphed to. my response is to the absolutes declared in various comments, ie analog is always the better sound, to which i disagree. for me its all about the background groove noise, the hiss clicks, occasional pops and to many returned faulty pressings. my wife studied music, plays the piano and flute, we are fortunate to have a yamaha grande. she has no dog in the hunt. after multiple listening sessions she finally said she just cannot give the analog system the top spot. she has excellent hearing and said she can hear the groove noise on every cut, especially the quite sections and would i please go back to digital. if the shoe were on the other foot and the same background groove noise was prevalent on most digital media i dont think it could be defended. given the investment i really wanted analog system to be special for me and her.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

thank you for your thoughtful reply. not to turn this into yet another digital vs analog debate but thats where this MSB thread seems to have morphed to. my response is to the absolutes declared in various comments, ie analog is always the better sound, to which i disagree. for me its all about the background groove noise, the hiss clicks, occasional pops and to many returned faulty pressings. my wife studied music, plays the piano and flute, we are fortunate to have a yamaha grande. she has no dog in the hunt. after multiple listening sessions she finally said she just cannot give the analog system the top spot. she has excellent hearing and said she can hear the groove noise on every cut, especially the quite sections and would i please go back to digital. if the shoe were on the other foot and the same background groove noise was prevalent on most digital media i dont think it could be defended. given the investment i really wanted analog system to be special for me and her.

My wife prefers the Analogue over the Digital and usually they claim women have better ears than men. Almost every time, she says the music comes to life in the room with soul, feelings and emotions are sparked instantly. So do i feel the same, iv owned MSB and various other high-end Dacs including older DCS, Totaldac,PD, Aqua, etc many Chinese ones, Terminator Dena....>????


this is a subjective topic of course, no doubt everyone has a different preference. However, all those who have come to listen to our rooms always said nothing sounds better than Analog. even when we have had dinner events with DAC shootouts.

 

[HughP3]

My wife prefers the Analogue over the Digital and usually they claim women have better ears than men. Almost every time, she says the music comes to life in the room with soul, feelings and emotions are sparked instantly. So do i feel the same, iv owned MSB and various other high-end Dacs including older DCS, Totaldac,PD, Aqua, etc many Chinese ones, Terminator Dena....>????


this is a subjective topic of course, no doubt everyone has a different preference. However, all those who have come to listen to our rooms always said nothing sounds better than Analog. even when we have had dinner events with DAC shootouts.

evidently this is as subjective as whats the best speakers , amps etc otherwise we would all own the same equipment as we would all come to the same conclusion. glad we both have found what we like.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...all good, but don't gloss over the very important aspect uncovered here: The choice of digital vs. analog may now be "blamed" on one's spouse! That is genius, gents. Bravo! Sample exchange to pull us back on-topic for Valentine's Day:

Friend: "Your system and that freakin' MSB dac sounds great, but no vinyl?"

Me: "I would re-visit my vinyl fetish, but Sweetie just loves her digital! I suffer through it for love."

 

[Mike Lavigne]

maybe if you spend 150 k on one pc of digital it changes your view lol

maybe that's it. no doubt it has crossed a threshold, but not really a cost issue, more overcoming some non trivial technical hurdles. there have already been $150k+ dacs that did not do this.

i dont think any Digital can replace Analogue regardless of the DAC or cost

what i find with my 'new' digital is that i can listen to better recordings and not be aware it's not analog. it possesses every analog attribute. i have to play a record to be able to hear what that record is doing better when directly compared. and i'm pretty seriously invested in vinyl playback; even though my digital is now at such a place, i'm still pushing the vinyl playback envelope (got new vinyl hardware and media inbound) and love my vinyl.

but to my ears in my system digital is right where it can and should be. and visitors to my room lately have agreed with me.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Digital versus analogue


Digital

Analogue

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Digital versus analogue


Digital

Analogue

and this is 1/2" 15ips tape with appropriate very low gen equivalent well recorded and performed source.....it's does not play fair with any other source. like this Porsche. it ignores all rules.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

maybe that's it. no doubt it has crossed a threshold, but not really a cost issue, more overcoming some non trivial technical hurdles. there have already been $150k+ dacs that did not do this.

what i find with my 'new' digital is that i can listen to better recordings and not be aware it's not analog. it possesses every analog attribute. i have to play a record to be able to hear what that record is doing better when directly compared. and i'm pretty seriously invested in vinyl playback; even though my digital is now at such a place, i'm still pushing the vinyl playback envelope (got new vinyl hardware and media inbound) and love my vinyl.

but to my ears in my system digital is right where it can and should be. and visitors to my room lately have agreed with me.

Give it another 1-3 years Mike, you will have a New DAC then you will say the same thing........))))