JRiver MC Version 18

[edorr]

You are correct that he can sue for whatever he wants. Would a tortious interference claim with these facts make it very far in a Texas Court? Don't count on it. One of the elements for such a claim is that threre's a valid existing contract with which the Defendant interfered. In my case, there's no contractual interference with Jplay. I've already paid the fee to Jplay and I am not demanding a refund due to the pop-up warning I received from Jriver.

You are incorrect with regard to the truth defense for a TI claim wherein the TI claim is also based on a libel claim.

Hey you're the lawyer in the house - BUT, it is my understanding that (A) there does not have to be a contract in place for tortuous interference. A business relationship is enough. (B) It the TI claim is not based on a libel claim, truth cannot be used as absolute defense against the TI claim.

I agree, the case probably would not get very far in court though..... May be you can pick up the case on a no cure no pay basis. Thenagain, if you manage to drive Jriver into bankruptcy, this would not endear you to the audio community

 

[dallasjustice]

Hey you're the lawyer in the house - BUT, it is my understanding that (A) there does not have to be a contract in place for tortuous [SIC] interference. A business relationship is enough. (B) It the TI claim is not based on a libel claim, truth cannot be used as absolute defense against the TI claim.

I agree, the case probably would not get very far in court though..... May be you can pick up the case on a no cure no pay basis. Thenagain, if you manage to drive Jriver into bankruptcy, this would not endear you to the audio community

My point is not that there has to be a written contract. Rather, I am saying there has to be some kind of valid business relationship (contractual or otherwise) with which the defendant is interfering. In my case, the pop-up has no effect on any business relationship with anyone.

 

[edorr]

My point is not that there has to be a written contract. Rather, I am saying there has to be some kind of valid business relationship (contractual or otherwise) with which the defendant is interfering. In my case, the pop-up has no effect on any business relationship with anyone.

The question is does the relationship between Jplay and a prospective buyer of its product qualify as a business relationship? If so, the person/company that comes out of the woodworks and says "don't buy his product - it is a (hoax - aka as fraud)" is interfering. If the relationship between seller and prospective buyer does not qualify as a business relationship, there is no interference.

 

[dallasjustice]

That's what I was wondering. Does the pop-up appear only to actual Jplay customers or does the warning also appear if someone is just using the free Jplay demo? In the latter case, you may be right that Marcin could have a good lawsuit for TI, assuming he could prove all of the elements. Whether that would be worth it to him is another question. A couple of manufacturers have asked me about suing for libel in the past and I've always advised against it.

Incidentally, I almost sued a DAC manufacturer once for TI. I won't say who it was but here's what happened:

I owned a DAC that I wanted to sell on Audiogon. I listed it. The prospective buyer in New York asked the manufacturer about my DAC and had previously inquired about a demo unit from the manufacturer. The manufacturer, in an email, falsely claimed that my DAC had been back for lightnting damage repairs and that I was selling it because I was financially destitute. The prospective buyer forwarded me the email. I threatened to sue the manufacturer. He apologized and said it was a mistake. The prospective buyer actually bought the DAC and I wasn't harmed. I let it go.

 

[edorr]

That's what I was wondering. Does the pop-up appear only to actual Jplay customers or does the warning also appear if someone is just using the free Jplay demo? In the latter case, you may be right that Marcin could have a good lawsuit for TI, assuming he could prove all of the elements. Whether that would be worth it to him is another question. A couple of manufacturers have asked me about suing for libel in the past and I've always advised against it.

JRiver has no way of knowing whether a licensed copy of a trial version of JPlay is running. They are interfering with the business relationship between Jplay and prospective buyer.

I owned a DAC that I wanted to sell on Audiogon. I listed it. The prospective buyer in New York asked the manufacturer about my DAC and had previously inquired about a demo unit from the manufacturer. The manufacturer, in an email, falsely claimed that my DAC had been back for lightnting damage repairs and that I was selling it because I was financially destitute. The prospective buyer forwarded me the email. I threatened to sue the manufacturer. He apologized and said it was a mistake. The prospective buyer actually bought the DAC and I wasn't harmed. I let it go.

I know a bit about TI, because my wife was threatened to be sued for libel, slander and TI. She had lend her brother $10K and he refused to pay back, claiming it was a gift. There was written evidence this was a lie. However, outraged she starts calling his employer (not smart!). She gets a cease and desist letter from a lawyer, threatening to sue for libel, slander and TI. This is how I found out that -unlike slander and libel- the fact she was telling the truth cannot be used as absolute defense against TI. Needless to say, they are not on speaking terms anymore.

 

[rbbert]

Here is the warning message I got:
View attachment 10110

This leaves me with no interest whatsoever in buying or using JRiver...

 

[Julf]

This leaves me with no interest whatsoever in buying or using JRiver...

Then don't

 

[jriver]

I see the hoax remark but can't read the text all that well. Can you please post the link to the foobar author mentioned there? Like to see what he has to say.

It's here: http://www.jriver.com/jplay.html

I approve this message.

Jim Hillegass

 

[edorr]

It's here: http://www.jriver.com/jplay.html

I approve this message.

Jim Hillegass

Jim, how can you say "JRiver recommends that you uninstall Jplay. It adds a layer of sound processing that can degrade sound quality ....."

You will achieve the best sound quality with JRiver alone.

And in the same message:

...... Mitcho tested JRiver Media Center and Jplay. Both produce measurably identical bitperfect output.

How can JRiver sounds best without JPlay when it is bitperfect identical?

 

[rbbert]

Then don't

Duh!

 

[Clive]

It's here: http://www.jriver.com/jplay.html

I approve this message.

Jim Hillegass

I will never buy your product, this particular business practice is totally unprofessional. If you felt you had the high ground you would be bigger than this. I can only think you feel threatened.

By the way how can JPLAY be hoax as it functions as a standalone player? Sure it's not free but Foobar is, so presumably you suggest people wanting just a player use Foobar rather than Jriver.

 

[ar-t]

Gee, this is getting interesting! Even more interesting than reading another dumb analog guy rambling on (in some other forum) about everything from DSD to his political views.

OK, as a dumb analog (really dumb, and very analog) guy, who knows zero about this, 2 points:

1.) "Can degrade" is not the same as "will degrade". Sounds like opinion, and high-end is all opinion, to begin with, so what is the problem?

If it had a pop-up that said "turn off your monitor", or "move xyz device to abc USB port", would you be just as upset? Those could degrade performance. Or would you be thankful for the warning? What if it said "You should have bought a Mac, instead of this dumb PC"?

2.) As for their forum (I assume it is their forum)............hey, their sandbox, they get to make the rules. Running a forum is probably enough of a PITA, without having to squelch uprisings from the villagers (with pitchforks and torches). Especially if they are from another village.

If someone has a stance that offends you, then don't do business with them. But, if I limited who I worked with, in this industry, based solely on whether I like their politics or not, things would be a lot different. And not in a positive manner.

Since I am the greedy capitalist, I have learned to overlook some of my comrade's goofy personal beliefs. Maybe you should judge what h/w, s/w, or whatever that you use, be based on what works best for your application. Which is probably different from the next guy's application.

Heck, if I was rich, I would probably buy a Mac! (I can see "Perry Mason" snickering, under his breath........."Oh, so that is what you are going to do with all that money............." No, sorry! Never gonna happen!) (Inside joke. From the master
of inside jokes.)

Hey, I'm just a dumb analog guy............

 

[dallasjustice]

Pat,
It's about time you showed up. This thread is perfect for you.

Why don't you explain why you don't think it's even possible to measure jitter differences between softwares as asserted in Jplayer's scriptures. That way, I'll stop trying to put words in your mouth.

Consigliere Lowe

 

[Julf]

I will never buy your product, this particular business practice is totally unprofessional.

Whereas I would, if I was using Windows. I find Jim's approach honest and refreshing in an industry that is all too full of voodoo and snake oil.

I would not buy JPLAY - anyone who claims to be able to improve the sound quality over an already bit-perfect signal is either enhancing/colouring the signal by DSP or EQ (and thus not faithful to the original signal) or selling snake oil.

 

[ar-t]

Pat,
It's about time you showed up. This thread is perfect for you.

Why don't you explain why you don't think it's even possible to measure jitter differences between softwares as asserted in Jplayer's scriptures. That way, I'll stop trying to put words in your mouth.

Consigliere Lowe

Actually, I would rather not. It will only serve to ignite certain individuals that I have no intent to deal with.

But, I will say this..............

We test all of the stuff we make, using some pricey test equipment. If you look at the output signal, to measure the jitter, the signal has so many sidebands, which are a necessary part of the waveform, that you have to ignore everything above.............say 100 Hz offset. Even in the idle state. So, what are you going to see if you hit the "PLAY" button?

Pretty much the same thing.

All that really matters is what comes out of the audio spigot, on the DAC. And what are you going to see there? Well, if you want to look at what kind of, and how much, sideband artifacts there are, you will need to use a steady-state tone.

Intuition leads me to believe steady-state tones and actual music place different strains on the computer, so no idea if that test would be valid.

 

[ar-t]

Whereas I would, if I was using Windows. I find Jim's approach honest and refreshing in an industry that is all too full of voodoo and snake oil.

I thought the name of this place is "What's Best". Not a "fan boy club". Are some of you guys going to not use what could possibly be the best, because the folks who make it have a beef with someone who wants to horn in on their turf?

Then you may not really want the best. Yes/no?

The point of my original post is that I work with folks that I do not agree with, on a lot of issues. But, we agree on making good sound. We agree on what good sound is, and how to make good sound. We put aside partisan issues to make stuff that sounds good.

Bidnis is bidnis.

And I can not fault someone for defending their turf. Even if it turns folks off.

 

[Julf]

Intuition leads me to believe steady-state tones and actual music place different strains on the computer, so no idea if that test would be valid.

I have found that with complex technology, intuition is good for ideas, but logic and mathematics is much better for actual facts. Why would the waveform to be played make any difference to the computer when operating in bit-transparent mode? It takes exactly the same effort to move a block of bytes, no matter what the values of those bytes are.

 

[Julf]

The point of my original post is that I work with folks that I do not agree with, on a lot of issues. But, we agree on making good sound. We agree on what good sound is, and how to make good sound. We put aside partisan issues to make stuff that sounds good.

Indeed. And I find that JRiver has an approach that is more likely to make good sound, whereas I am suspicious of the claims made for Jplay. If that makes me a "fan boy" for intellectual honesty, so be it.

 

[rbbert]

What about JRiver's approach makes it better than (e.g.) Foobar?

 

[Julf]

What about JRiver's approach makes it better than (e.g.) Foobar?

Nothing that I am aware of - I think the makers of Foobar are pretty honest about the capabilities of their software too.