GEC U52, RCA/Raytheon 6F8G (Woo adapter), Tungsram nickel E80CC
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LampizatOr Baltic 3
- Thread starter VoicesInMyHead
- Start date
Nice! That rectifier comparison looks exciting!
I should mention btw that those Woo adapters I use for 6F8G tubes took quite a while to either burn-in or get used to, at first I thought they were very thin and flat sounding and that I lost some weight from the cheap adapters I used to have, but eventually I found them to be extremely neutral like there's nothing in between. Maybe wishful thinking though as an adapter is always an adapter...
At the moment I'm sitting here a bit baffled over having upgraded all my power cables, it shouldn't really come as a surprise though as I've always been a believer in good power, but usually (for me) there's prioritisation of some sort in play where I have focused on better cables for my amplifier and DAC in first hand, but maybe not given the server/streamer, network switch and USB re-clocker the same attention. Not that my cables I had before were bad, but as usual there is always a "higher level" out there and it was a real eye opener when I first added a better cable to my server/streamer, and now also to the switch and re-clocker. It really makes me feel that the entire digital chain is very important and should not be neglected anywhere. Everything matters!
Also really liking those Graphite Audio IC-35 feet under the Lampi... Going to buy more of those for the rest of my system.
I should mention btw that those Woo adapters I use for 6F8G tubes took quite a while to either burn-in or get used to, at first I thought they were very thin and flat sounding and that I lost some weight from the cheap adapters I used to have, but eventually I found them to be extremely neutral like there's nothing in between. Maybe wishful thinking though as an adapter is always an adapter...
At the moment I'm sitting here a bit baffled over having upgraded all my power cables, it shouldn't really come as a surprise though as I've always been a believer in good power, but usually (for me) there's prioritisation of some sort in play where I have focused on better cables for my amplifier and DAC in first hand, but maybe not given the server/streamer, network switch and USB re-clocker the same attention. Not that my cables I had before were bad, but as usual there is always a "higher level" out there and it was a real eye opener when I first added a better cable to my server/streamer, and now also to the switch and re-clocker. It really makes me feel that the entire digital chain is very important and should not be neglected anywhere. Everything matters!
Also really liking those Graphite Audio IC-35 feet under the Lampi...
Going to buy more of those for the rest of my system.It’s probably helpful that I caveat my views here as I am not what could be considered a typical Baltic owner. I use a Taiko Extreme with my top cabling options, QSA silver outlet / fuses and some very revealing tubes (nickel plate e80cc and melz 1578). My system is extremely high resolution and well balanced. I don’t therefore need to ‘warm’ it up to hide deficiencies elsewhere and value clarity for product development purposes.
Also, of these tubes the EML and Tak belong to me and are well used but the others are on loan from a kindly collector nearby. I don’t know how much usage they have seen but assume they test well as he is that sort of guy and also owns an amplitrex tester.
My general view on tubes is that once you achieve a certain level of proficiency in terms of build and age, then the differences between brands tend to be in presentational style. Occasionally you get an outperformer like the Tungsram nickel e80cc but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Choose your poison according to your system / tastes.
I started off this testing round with my regular EML274b and then worked my way through the contenders, hence the remarks represent the changes observed relative to the preceding tube.
First up was the Philips metal GZ34 - deeper tonality, stronger more centred punch. Reasonable transparency. Nice and coherent but less structure and clarity.
Mullard Gz37 20v drop - similar to philips but stronger bass and less transparent, with hf diminished. Less control over strings, some smearing. Not for me.
Philips black base gz34 - clarity has been resumed. Dynamics seem stronger than the metal base, with greater reverb on bass notes. Would need to do some more back to back testing to better discern the differences between the two but this one seems i think to be darker overall.
‘Valvo’ GZ34 - inverted commas as despite the writing on the box, there was a mullard labelled gz34 inside. Initially sounds rather similar to the black base Philips but, once again, slightly less control on strings and some overall softness to transients. Better overall than the preceding GZ37 though.
Mullard GZ37 17v drop - straight off the sound seems more recessed and soft. Flabby rather than taut. Life’s too short for this one.
Takatsuki 274b - clearer presention but somewhat dull overall.
Second round, both of the GZ37 and the Tak have been eliminated and I want to look more closely at the three GZ34s. Quite literally speaking, as it appears both the micanol based models have an ostensibly identical internal construction despite the Mullard UK production labelling / brown base on one. The slight sonic differences between these may well be down to different production runs / individual build variances. A friendly tube guru who has forgotten more about tubes than I’ll ever learn believes that 60% of the sound comes from internal structure/design with differing materials and build quality each contributing @20%.
Back again to the EML274B as a reminder of where I started an hour ago, it seems the clearest and best structured albeit with some loss of tonality and body / impact.
Replacing with the metal Philips GZ34, some clarity has been lost but tonality and solidity gained. Is the trade worthwhile? Personal call but I don’t feel the Philips is better overall.
How about the plastic base Philips? Similar feeling overall. Last time round, I found myself listening to this one the longest which should say something
So to conclude, of the tubes I could snaffle for the purpose of evaluation my personal fave remains the EML274b though I can see how many others might prefer the Philips GZ34 in the context of other systems. Question is can I do better than the EML?!? @adrian cheng / @dminches as the resident tube gurus, do you have any thoughts to share?
Also, of these tubes the EML and Tak belong to me and are well used but the others are on loan from a kindly collector nearby. I don’t know how much usage they have seen but assume they test well as he is that sort of guy and also owns an amplitrex tester.
My general view on tubes is that once you achieve a certain level of proficiency in terms of build and age, then the differences between brands tend to be in presentational style. Occasionally you get an outperformer like the Tungsram nickel e80cc but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Choose your poison according to your system / tastes.
I started off this testing round with my regular EML274b and then worked my way through the contenders, hence the remarks represent the changes observed relative to the preceding tube.
First up was the Philips metal GZ34 - deeper tonality, stronger more centred punch. Reasonable transparency. Nice and coherent but less structure and clarity.
Mullard Gz37 20v drop - similar to philips but stronger bass and less transparent, with hf diminished. Less control over strings, some smearing. Not for me.
Philips black base gz34 - clarity has been resumed. Dynamics seem stronger than the metal base, with greater reverb on bass notes. Would need to do some more back to back testing to better discern the differences between the two but this one seems i think to be darker overall.
‘Valvo’ GZ34 - inverted commas as despite the writing on the box, there was a mullard labelled gz34 inside. Initially sounds rather similar to the black base Philips but, once again, slightly less control on strings and some overall softness to transients. Better overall than the preceding GZ37 though.
Mullard GZ37 17v drop - straight off the sound seems more recessed and soft. Flabby rather than taut. Life’s too short for this one.
Takatsuki 274b - clearer presention but somewhat dull overall.
Second round, both of the GZ37 and the Tak have been eliminated and I want to look more closely at the three GZ34s. Quite literally speaking, as it appears both the micanol based models have an ostensibly identical internal construction despite the Mullard UK production labelling / brown base on one. The slight sonic differences between these may well be down to different production runs / individual build variances. A friendly tube guru who has forgotten more about tubes than I’ll ever learn believes that 60% of the sound comes from internal structure/design with differing materials and build quality each contributing @20%.
Back again to the EML274B as a reminder of where I started an hour ago, it seems the clearest and best structured albeit with some loss of tonality and body / impact.
Replacing with the metal Philips GZ34, some clarity has been lost but tonality and solidity gained. Is the trade worthwhile? Personal call but I don’t feel the Philips is better overall.
How about the plastic base Philips? Similar feeling overall. Last time round, I found myself listening to this one the longest which should say something
So to conclude, of the tubes I could snaffle for the purpose of evaluation my personal fave remains the EML274b though I can see how many others might prefer the Philips GZ34 in the context of other systems. Question is can I do better than the EML?!? @adrian cheng / @dminches as the resident tube gurus, do you have any thoughts to share?
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I’d be happy to should someone provide them however I don’t have any plans to procure either. GZ480 is certainly of interest should anyone have one to sell.
hehe, there's always "another tube" to test.... I think it was a great effort as it was done, very interesting, thank you @Sablon Audio ! and also with some interesting results I must say. it's a good thing that with tubes the most expensive doesn't necessarily need to be the best or to your personal preference. I have to admit though that you got me started looking for some GZ34, but then I remembered I'm supposed to sit back and enjoy my U52 for just a little longer.
I think it was a great effort as it was done, very interesting, thank you @Sablon Audio ! and also with some interesting results I must say. it's a good thing that with tubes the most expensive doesn't necessarily need to be the best or to your personal preference. I have to admit though that you got me started looking for some GZ34, but then I remembered I'm supposed to sit back and enjoy my U52 for just a little longer.A couple more not so young hopefuls have just arrived though I will need to borrow a woo adapter for the usaf, as well as burn it in. The Westinghouse is already used but tests 100%. Am still struggling to procure a GZ480 should anyone have a spare?
The Westinghouse vu71 is a nice rectifier to listen to. In a similar fashion to many of the nos described earlier, it is quite punchy and fuller bodied and darker tonally. More of a bottom up sound than the EML. It’s quite articulate and structured, certainly more so than the Mullard GZ37s and has a similar presentation to the rca valves I have previously listened to (5814 / 5751 / vt231 / 6sl7). Whilst not quite my cuppa, lacking the spaciousness and air, it’s a decent valve for not much money.
The Woo adaptor for the USAF596 is now in the post to me and I have managed to find a Heintz & Kaufman 5y3wgta, a Shuguang 274b and a Brimar cv1863 in my stash. Sadly the former isn’t a relabelled Bendix 6106 and tbh I’m not quite sure exactly what it is as there aren’t any markings on the tube / zero getter flashing / different plate structure to other brands seen online.
The Woo adaptor for the USAF596 is now in the post to me and I have managed to find a Heintz & Kaufman 5y3wgta, a Shuguang 274b and a Brimar cv1863 in my stash. Sadly the former isn’t a relabelled Bendix 6106 and tbh I’m not quite sure exactly what it is as there aren’t any markings on the tube / zero getter flashing / different plate structure to other brands seen online.
Quick update: I’ve returned to the RCA smoked glass round plate 6F8G tubes with the Woo Audio adapters. I read something about the Woo adapters themselves settling down after some use, and that the initial thinness disappears with a few dozen hours on them.
I decided to burn them in with the RCAs over the last few days, and have really enjoyed what I’m hearing compared to the KR VT-231 tubes. I think the RCAs will be in the mix for quite a while.
I have also been demoing the Mad Scientist Audio Black Magic Ultra USB, and haven’t really noticed any improvement over the Morrow Audio USB that I previously had. I’ll be returning the Black Magic.
In its place, I inserted a new FTA Sinope USB cable and oh my god is it fantastic. Even without any burn in, it is phenomenal. I’ve gone back and forth with the Black Magic and the Morrow Audio USB cables and it’s not even close. Granted, different price brackets across all 3, but in this case (and surprisingly since we’re talking about 1’s and 0’s) I am getting what I paid for plus some.
More to follow, but really enjoying how the B3 is settling into my system!
I decided to burn them in with the RCAs over the last few days, and have really enjoyed what I’m hearing compared to the KR VT-231 tubes. I think the RCAs will be in the mix for quite a while.
I have also been demoing the Mad Scientist Audio Black Magic Ultra USB, and haven’t really noticed any improvement over the Morrow Audio USB that I previously had. I’ll be returning the Black Magic.
In its place, I inserted a new FTA Sinope USB cable and oh my god is it fantastic. Even without any burn in, it is phenomenal. I’ve gone back and forth with the Black Magic and the Morrow Audio USB cables and it’s not even close. Granted, different price brackets across all 3, but in this case (and surprisingly since we’re talking about 1’s and 0’s) I am getting what I paid for plus some.
More to follow, but really enjoying how the B3 is settling into my system!
+1 for FTA cables. I initially bought a Callisto USB cable and then bought a power cable and a pair of IC's.
Not cheap but work really well with the Baltic.
Not cheap but work really well with the Baltic.
….and now for the ugly thing.…
after about 20hrs of burn in, this is stylistically the closest to the EML of all the rectifiers I have tried. Tonally neutral and even across the frequency range. Transients / bass lines are taut but cymbals don’t shimmer. Soundstage is slightly compressed and the vivaciousness diminished when compared to eml274b, which is very spacious and alive.
Lovely though the build quality of the Woo adaptor is, I can’t help but feel that this tube would perform better in the correct socket (ux4 rather than octal) without an adapter getting in the way of the signal path.
after about 20hrs of burn in, this is stylistically the closest to the EML of all the rectifiers I have tried. Tonally neutral and even across the frequency range. Transients / bass lines are taut but cymbals don’t shimmer. Soundstage is slightly compressed and the vivaciousness diminished when compared to eml274b, which is very spacious and alive.
Lovely though the build quality of the Woo adaptor is, I can’t help but feel that this tube would perform better in the correct socket (ux4 rather than octal) without an adapter getting in the way of the signal path.
Hi,
Do you have a link for those Polish adapters? I have used Chinese adapters with 6F8G's before but would like to try these.
I just bought a new pair of Cunningham tubes to try.
Thanks!
Thanks! Looks like he does not have any current offerings but I messaged him.
Best,
Paul
Thanks a lot. I received a pair yesterday and a pair of NOS 6F8FG's from a guy in Mexico. The tubes are Cunningham(early RCA) with black plates and look like they just rolled off the factory line. The adapters are way better than some Chinese ones I had a while ago for an old Single Power headphone amp. Those buzzed every time I turned on my desk lamp! Piotrdoor's are also much better priced than the Woo.
Hope to plug them in tomorrow...
Glad to hear you already got them. And to me they also seem as a top notch ones. Woo looks better for sure but I'm not certain there is such a huge performance delta vs Polish ones as price would indicate.
Anyhow I hope You'll like the 6f8g's in B3.
Hello Everyone,
Is anyone in this forum using boutique footers on the Baltic 3 ?
Just wondering if it makes any sound improvement on it
Thank you !
Is anyone in this forum using boutique footers on the Baltic 3 ?
Just wondering if it makes any sound improvement on it
Thank you !
I currently use the stock footers although I use Gaia footers on my speakers and amp. With tube equipment I do believe in good isolation however when I bought the B3 I also bought a number of FTA cables so my wallet had pretty much hemorrhaged!
I have spent most of my time tube rolling since then. Tubes will make a very big difference. The tubes that come with it are OK but there are better ones out there. Read though the thread for tips on that.
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