Lampizator Gain Problem

[Alrainbow]

In the Baltic 3 manual, I came across the following section that explains the gain problem. I understand the hi-low gain settings as the workaround, but I gather that Lukasz is more generally recommending a passive preamp volume control in place of a chipset--is that correct? Also note the second paragraph on opamps. I know my Pass Labs Int-60 has a chip volume control, but I'm wondering if I also have a case of the dreaded opamps? Does anyone know if the newer Pass preamps have a different volume control design?

"Generally - we prefer the sound of the DAC with high output levels, and most amps don’t have any problem with that. A simple potentiometer or stepped attenuator takes care of that. Only solid state chip based preamps will saturate and distort thats why we need to know in advance about such solid state chip volume system being driven by the DAC. We will keep then the volume level at the 'book' level of 2 V pp.(Lo-gain switch position) Having said that - chip volume systems and preamps with opamps belong in home theatre (cheap one) and DEFINITELY not in high end.

LampizatOr DAC should not be used with opamp based preamp, no matter how good. Because the op-amp feedback loops will remove the whole joy of music as delivered by the tubed DAC."

Does Yiur pre amp have gain switch’s for inputs. most do some dip sws some menu driven. don’t knock op chip inputs unless you hear it
i have an older krell ktc pre I use. it’s all digital menu driven but also discrete devices. it does have a ton of relays though
if Your pre don’t have any settings then yes a passive pre with buffer is good. But a pre that allows to adjust input is also good.
may I ask what model is yours

 

[Agent86]

Does Yiur pre amp have gain switch’s for inputs. most do some dip sws some menu driven. don’t knock op chip inputs unless you hear it
i have an older krell ktc pre I use. it’s all digital menu driven but also discrete devices. it does have a ton of relays though
if Your pre don’t have any settings then yes a passive pre with buffer is good. But a pre that allows to adjust input is also good.
may I ask what model is yours

I have an Integrated, a Pass Labs Int-60. Switching some jumpers would allow additional gain, but not subtraction, My Pass does work with the Baltic 3 on the latter's low-gain setting, but not on the high-gain (I had the factory set the switch to 1.5v and 3v) I'd like to have some more control over this without having to add a volume control to the DAC. Right now, looking at separates and wondering whether the Pass Labs preamps would have the same volume issues as the Integrated.

 

[Alrainbow]

A vol control to me is a must on dacs for a few reasons
but your pre should have more settings too.

 

[christoph]

I have an Integrated, a Pass Labs Int-60. Switching some jumpers would allow additional gain, but not subtraction, My Pass does work with the Baltic 3 on the latter's low-gain setting, but not on the high-gain (I had the factory set the switch to 1.5v and 3v) I'd like to have some more control over this without having to add a volume control to the DAC. Right now, looking at separates and wondering whether the Pass Labs preamps would have the same volume issues as the Integrated.

Why neccessarily stay within the Pass family?
There are lots of other gear that I personallly would prefer over Pass
What speakers do you have to drive?

 

[elan120]

I have an Integrated, a Pass Labs Int-60. Switching some jumpers would allow additional gain, but not subtraction, My Pass does work with the Baltic 3 on the latter's low-gain setting, but not on the high-gain (I had the factory set the switch to 1.5v and 3v) I'd like to have some more control over this without having to add a volume control to the DAC. Right now, looking at separates and wondering whether the Pass Labs preamps would have the same volume issues as the Integrated.

Can the lower output be done in the software (music player) you use?

I am using HQPlayer as music player, and it can set the "Startup volume" to lower level to avoid clipping.

 

[Agent86]

Why neccessarily stay within the Pass family?
There are lots of other gear that I personallly would prefer over Pass
What speakers do you have to drive?

My speakers are Verity Amadis S. I'd be willing to entertain other brands aside from Pass Labs, but since I want to pair the pre/amp with my Lampizator Baltic 3, I'd like to first get a better understanding of what Lukasz is saying in the user manual. Aside from the Pass's spec incompatibility with hi-voltage gain, which I've partially addressed by using the low-gain setting on the Lamp DAC, I'm curious about the broader "philosophical" issue with op-amps mentioned in the second paragraph below. Lukasz is rather emphatic about this, and since I don't have any familiarity with volume control design, I'm curious what models of preamps are made with op-amps or feedback loops that would run counter to Lukasz's recommendations and which models might be more compatible. Are the Pass designs incompatible??

"Generally - we prefer the sound of the DAC with high output levels, and most amps don’t have any problem with that. A simple potentiometer or stepped attenuator takes care of that. Only solid state chip based preamps will saturate and distort thats why we need to know in advance about such solid state chip volume system being driven by the DAC. We will keep then the volume level at the 'book' level of 2 V pp.(Lo-gain switch position) Having said that - chip volume systems and preamps with opamps belong in home theatre (cheap one) and DEFINITELY not in high end.

LampizatOr DAC should not be used with opamp based preamp, no matter how good. Because the op-amp feedback loops will remove the whole joy of music as delivered by the tubed DAC."

 

[Gjo]

Hello all.

I received output specification information that I thought might be valuable to future readers of this thread.

The Baltic 3 Data Sheet states output level of 2 Vpp @ 0 dB unbalanced and 6 Vpp balanced. However, I could not find an output spec for the volume control equipped Baltic 3, so I contacted Lampizator.

The output level specification on a Baltic 3 with Volume Control (and without a High/Low gain switch) is 10 Vpp.

 

[georgemg]

Thank you for your prompt response! I've written Lukasz a couple emails but have not heard back from him. I'm glad you mentioned server volume control, as I've been thinking about adding in Roon to my Antipodes streaming setup. Presumably, I'd been able to lessen the volume from there, but would that ultimately diminish the voltage gain from the Lampizator to my amp?

I don't know about this problem, but I'm having problems with a BIG 7 lamp, and I live in Brazil where there is no factory authorized, and I've already tried contacting three emails and facebook, no response, just silence, I don't trust a brand that doesn't take care of your customers