Lampizator Valve / Tube Rolling Review Thread

[highstream]

Do you know what the Aqua 2s are supposed to be upgraded? I have a 274B mesh in my B4 and I didn't find it warm. I got the mesh instead of an aqua for that reason. I wasn't trying to color warm, just like you I just want on the warm side of neutral. However, I don't have a lot of experience with a lot of rectus. Came from a RCA JAN 5UA4.

Not sure I understand your question, but the Sophia 274B Aqua II has been available on their site for a few months, I think. Since both are described as life like, it’s hard to know the full range of sonic improvements w/o a try. And despite version I being known as having an effect on the warm side, just as I’ve experienced, if you ask they will deny that life like is at all warm.

 

[highstream]

For my ears I personally favor TFKN RGN2004 Klangfilm circa 1934 with mesh plate and Valvo G2504 solid plate which is much more dynamic

Is your Valvo G2504 solid plate comment based on what you have or having also listened to the mesh version?

 

[Sablon Audio]

I feel Ian’s comment about Valvo would benefit from some added context.

During the 1930s, the golden age of Radio when tube production roared ahead, many European countries were rather protectionist of their domestic producers and put up barriers to entry. Sometimes high tariffs on imports - eg the ‘tax’ stamps applied to Italian market tubes - or through obfuscation by renaming the tube type. It was not uncommon for larger tube manufacturers to buy out small local producers in order to gain an economic foothold in different countries. Philips Holland was certainly on the expansion and bought out Valvo in Germany (also Mullard for UK / Radio Technique for France and Amperex for USA).

The 1930s production Valvo rectifers we are discussing would however have been made in Hamburg and it wasn’t really until @1960 that the Philips group would be actively relabelling tubes made from their factories elsewhere. As an aside, the earlier Philips products from Eindhoven (rather than Heerlen) are supposedly rather good and worth checking out.

 

[Sablon Audio]

I’ve heard from those tha have….out of the box the c3g easily beat the ECC32 which I really like. I think there is some truth to the fact that a balloon shaped tube seems to sound better in every way.but the c3g as I understand it is a pentode used in underwater cables

Yes I heard that from the same sources also Steve. There may yet be more performance to be squeezed out from the C3g as the Chinese adapters don’t have any provision from grounding the metal signal can, which is ordinarily done via the centre post.

C3g was used for amplifying transatlantic telephone signals. E83f is another low noise telephony pentode.

 

[bonzo75]

C3g is used in Ypsilon phono. Also their power amps. And in Misho’s audioantiquary preamp. People rotate telefunken and Siemens

 

[Powerman]

Not sure I understand your question, but the Sophia 274B Aqua II has been available on their site for a few months, I think. Since both are described as life like, it’s hard to know the full range of sonic improvements w/o a try. And despite version I being known as having an effect on the warm side, just as I’ve experienced, if you ask they will deny that life like is at all warm.

That's basically it... I just wanted to know if you knew what was supposed to be different between aqua 1 and 2. When looking, in general people said aqua is warm and mesh is detailed. I don't want to voice my DAC "warm", so I went with mesh. Trying to get a feel for how aqua 2 differs.

 

[khill007]

Some pictures..View attachment 45400View attachment 45401View attachment 45402View attachment 45403View attachment 45404View attachment 45405View attachment 45406

I see a "potato masher" recti! Sounds great in my Baltic 3. Just ordered a RK 5u4g. I've tried Taki 274B, WE 274A, Sophia mesh and solid 274B, RCA 40's 5u4G, Potato Masher, EML 274B, and a Mullard Fat Bottle GZ34 and to my ears the RCA 5u4G sounded most "natural". The 274's just don't sound right in this DAC for some odd reason. I've never had a recti beat a 274A or B in any of my SET DHT gear?!?

FYI - I'm new to the forum but have been lurking for years as a fellow Lampi owner and I always enjoy your insight!

Kregg

 

[khill007]

I might as well show off the current stable?!?

 

[Powerman]

OK... Maybe you guys can help... Baltic 4 & 274B. I had a RCA JAN 5R4U GY. I replaced that with a Sophia 274B mesh. It was better in most ways. Since then I settled on a pair of Mullard ECC32s even though I still like my other Sylv 52 BBs, and Sylv 12BH7 oval plates. Integrated amp with XF2 EL34s and mazda/tele/Mullard signal tubes.

Well, with the B4, I want all the realism and holography I can get... But my system is rather mid forward. I wouldn't mind it a bit more recessed. My 274B mesh is part of that I think. I know a lot of people like EL 274B. "IF" I got one, that would be top of price range. I know a lot of people like the SE Aqua 274B. I went with mesh for more air and resolution. But now they have the Aqua 2 274B... Which has my curiosity....

So... What experience do you have with EL & SE 274Bs and the difference between the different ones they offer? I like warmish, but not at the expense of resolution, definition, and top end... I just want it all.

 

[jonstine]

OK... Maybe you guys can help... Baltic 4 & 274B. I had a RCA JAN 5R4U GY. I replaced that with a Sophia 274B mesh. It was better in most ways. Since then I settled on a pair of Mullard ECC32s even though I still like my other Sylv 52 BBs, and Sylv 12BH7 oval plates. Integrated amp with XF2 EL34s and mazda/tele/Mullard signal tubes.

Well, with the B4, I want all the realism and holography I can get... But my system is rather mid forward. I wouldn't mind it a bit more recessed. My 274B mesh is part of that I think. I know a lot of people like EL 274B. "IF" I got one, that would be top of price range. I know a lot of people like the SE Aqua 274B. I went with mesh for more air and resolution. But now they have the Aqua 2 274B... Which has my curiosity....

So... What experience do you have with EL & SE 274Bs and the difference between the different ones they offer? I like warmish, but not at the expense of resolution, definition, and top end... I just want it all.

I don’t have apples to apples insight to offer, but I’ve tinkered with some variants mentioned above.

I had a Baltic 3 (balanced, volume control, Engine 53) that I initially purchased an EML 274B for. I pretty quickly settled into some KenRad VT231 smoked glass and Brimar CV4003 tubes as well, and had several hundred hours on everything. In my system it produced an articulate, warm, open soundstage. I was content with it, but kept hearing about the Sophia line. So I purchased the “standard” Sophia Princess mesh 274B, not the Aqua.

There wasn’t any mind blowing transformation when I first swapped the Princess in, but over the next week(s) the sound really opened up. It was the most holographic I’ve heard to date, with a fantastic top end, plenty of air, great separation of instruments, and beautiful, lush midrange. Bass seemed to be more detailed, and I had to turn down the REL sub a notch as well as turn the crossover dial down a click. Overall a very coherent resolving enjoyable sound. When source music was laid back, so was the presentation. On more aggressive rock and in your face material, the presentation changed accordingly. I definitely preferred the Sophia to the EML in my system.

I noticed the new Sophia Aqua II 274B about 2 months ago and ordered one immediately. I inserted it in the B3 as soon as I received it. Upon initial power up and music playing it sounded similar to the Princess - not a step forward or backward, more a net zero change. So I left music playing while I worked on other stuff, intending to do a more intentional first listen later that evening, BUT… about 45 min later I was in the other room and realized the music had stopped. As soon as I walked out I smelled burnt plastic, and knew it wasn’t good. The Sophia had somehow burned one of the boards (I assume) and finally popped the fuse. It wouldn’t power up even with the old EML 274B and new fuse. So it went back to Poland, and the Sophia Aqua II went back to Sophia - both for warranty repair.

I have since traded in the B3 for an Atlantic 3 TRP with VC, Balanced, and several cherry picked upgrades from the Golden Atlantic config. It is being built now. My warranty replaced Sophia Aqua II has already arrived. As soon as the A3 gets here and I get familiar with its sound via the stock tubes, I have a pair of Siemens F2A tubes and a couple other rectifiers to swap in.

I’d love to see how good the Aqua II is. There really aren’t any reviews, comments, or pro/cons on it yet, so it’s actually refreshing to NOT know what an audio component is SUPPOSED to sound like yet. Clean slate, other than it harming the B3 (again my assumption).

I know that doesn’t help other than that I think the regular Sophia is definitely better than the EML, and that the Aqua II sounded at least as good as the Princess when it was first inserted. I’ll update once I’ve had a chance to try it out.

 

[highstream]

For my GG 2/3, I’ve got a Sophia Aqua II supposedly arriving tomorrow on a two-week keep or return, so will add an appraisal then. A Tungsram P200/600 is also probably arriving tomorrow, but that will have to wait, as will a Telefunken 2004 solid plate that’s on the way. The comparison will be with the Telefunken AZ1, which I wrote about with some frustration a few weeks ago. Since then, 305 hours in, it finally found a touch of warmth, which has made it something I can live with until I find similar qualities but with two touches of warmth

 

[Powerman]

I don’t have apples to apples insight to offer, but I’ve tinkered with some variants mentioned above.

I had a Baltic 3 (balanced, volume control, Engine 53) that I initially purchased an EML 274B for. I pretty quickly settled into some KenRad VT231 smoked glass and Brimar CV4003 tubes as well, and had several hundred hours on everything. In my system it produced an articulate, warm, open soundstage. I was content with it, but kept hearing about the Sophia line. So I purchased the “standard” Sophia Princess mesh 274B, not the Aqua.

There wasn’t any mind blowing transformation when I first swapped the Princess in, but over the next week(s) the sound really opened up. It was the most holographic I’ve heard to date, with a fantastic top end, plenty of air, great separation of instruments, and beautiful, lush midrange. Bass seemed to be more detailed, and I had to turn down the REL sub a notch as well as turn the crossover dial down a click. Overall a very coherent resolving enjoyable sound. When source music was laid back, so was the presentation. On more aggressive rock and in your face material, the presentation changed accordingly. I definitely preferred the Sophia to the EML in my system.

I noticed the new Sophia Aqua II 274B about 2 months ago and ordered one immediately. I inserted it in the B3 as soon as I received it. Upon initial power up and music playing it sounded similar to the Princess - not a step forward or backward, more a net zero change. So I left music playing while I worked on other stuff, intending to do a more intentional first listen later that evening, BUT… about 45 min later I was in the other room and realized the music had stopped. As soon as I walked out I smelled burnt plastic, and knew it wasn’t good. The Sophia had somehow burned one of the boards (I assume) and finally popped the fuse. It wouldn’t power up even with the old EML 274B and new fuse. So it went back to Poland, and the Sophia Aqua II went back to Sophia - both for warranty repair.

I have since traded in the B3 for an Atlantic 3 TRP with VC, Balanced, and several cherry picked upgrades from the Golden Atlantic config. It is being built now. My warranty replaced Sophia Aqua II has already arrived. As soon as the A3 gets here and I get familiar with its sound via the stock tubes, I have a pair of Siemens F2A tubes and a couple other rectifiers to swap in.

I’d love to see how good the Aqua II is. There really aren’t any reviews, comments, or pro/cons on it yet, so it’s actually refreshing to NOT know what an audio component is SUPPOSED to sound like yet. Clean slate, other than it harming the B3 (again my assumption).

I know that doesn’t help other than that I think the regular Sophia is definitely better than the EML, and that the Aqua II sounded at least as good as the Princess when it was first inserted. I’ll update once I’ve had a chance to try it out.

First, sorry about the B3... But you are doing an upgrade! Interesting about the EML. It's the same stuff I liked about the SE 274B mesh. Everything was better... Not just top end but bottom too. But that was compared to the RCA 5R4A...not another 284B.

I agree... The SE Aqua is pretty well established, but very little on the Aqua 2 out there. I swapped some of my tubes tonight going back to some previous but still mid forward. There is a lack of warmth... But I've also been having some bad headaches that make my ears ache... I got something weird going on so that might be a lot of it. Still curious on the Aqua 3 though.

 

[jonstine]

For my GG 2/3, I’ve got a Sophia Aqua II supposedly arriving tomorrow on a two-week keep or return, so will add an appraisal then. A Tungsram P200/600 is also probably arriving tomorrow, but that will have to wait, as will a Telefunken 2004 solid plate that’s on the way. The comparison will be with the Telefunken AZ1, which I wrote about with some frustration a few weeks ago. Since then, 305 hours in, it finally found a touch of warmth, which has made it something I can live with until I find similar qualities but with two touches of warmth

Nice! I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Aqua II when you’ve had a chance to figure it out.

That’s a good group of rectifier tubes. I also have a Tungsram P200/600 here, but still waiting on the adapter (and the A3 TRP) to try it out.

 

[jonstine]

First, sorry about the B3... But you are doing an upgrade! Interesting about the EML. It's the same stuff I liked about the SE 274B mesh. Everything was better... Not just top end but bottom too. But that was compared to the RCA 5R4A...not another 284B.

I agree... The SE Aqua is pretty well established, but very little on the Aqua 2 out there. I swapped some of my tubes tonight going back to some previous but still mid forward. There is a lack of warmth... But I've also been having some bad headaches that make my ears ache... I got something weird going on so that might be a lot of it. Still curious on the Aqua 3 though.

Yep, I wish the B3 didn’t have to go off for repair, but I am very happy about the upgrade! It’s going to be all Sahara Silver (front/top/sides) which looks spectacular on the Horizon. Really excited to see how it turns out on the A3 with the large VC OLED panel!

 

[highstream]

Nice! I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Aqua II when you’ve had a chance to figure it out.

That’s a good group of rectifier tubes. I also have a Tungsram P200/600 here, but still waiting on the adapter (and the A3 TRP) to try it out.

USPS seems to have figured the best way from Virginia to Montana is via Jacksonville FL, so while awaiting the Sophia I stuck in the Tungsram, with an eBay Chinese adapter. It's used, so will probably won't need a full 300 hours. From the first listen to 24 hours in now, it's been a pleasant sounding warm tube that has a lot of good characteristics one would hope for, but lacks the AZ1's transparency and has a pitch that's strangely not real in a way I've not heard before (all tubes I've ever heard in no matter what system are off pitch -- e.g., piano -- but some have been close enough to give an engaging life-like quality).

 

[plasmod3]

Th

I see a "potato masher" recti! Sounds great in my Baltic 3. Just ordered a RK 5u4g. I've tried Taki 274B, WE 274A, Sophia mesh and solid 274B, RCA 40's 5u4G, Potato Masher, EML 274B, and a Mullard Fat Bottle GZ34 and to my ears the RCA 5u4G sounded most "natural". The 274's just don't sound right in this DAC for some odd reason. I've never had a recti beat a 274A or B in any of my SET DHT gear?!?

FYI - I'm new to the forum but have been lurking for years as a fellow Lampi owner and I always enjoy your insight!

Kregg

The 274b engraved base is a totally different beast from the printed. If you can try that. However!!! Only the 2504 valvo beats the 274b the 2504 is now king. 2004 cannot trump 274b engraved

 

[plasmod3]

I feel Ian’s comment about Valvo would benefit from some added context.

During the 1930s, the golden age of Radio when tube production roared ahead, many European countries were rather protectionist of their domestic producers and put up barriers to entry. Sometimes high tariffs on imports - eg the ‘tax’ stamps applied to Italian market tubes - or through obfuscation by renaming the tube type. It was not uncommon for larger tube manufacturers to buy out small local producers in order to gain an economic foothold in different countries. Philips Holland was certainly on the expansion and bought out Valvo in Germany (also Mullard for UK / Radio Technique for France and Amperex for USA).

The 1930s production Valvo rectifers we are discussing would however have been made in Hamburg and it wasn’t really until @1960 that the Philips group would be actively relabelling tubes made from their factories elsewhere. As an aside, the earlier Philips products from Eindhoven (rather than Heerlen) are supposedly rather good and worth checking out.

Yup phillips took over valvo in 1932. Because of tariffs they will buy a tube factory and replace their production there most often with parts from their home markets. Like stc for their 4242 which used their parts from england on the tube. 4242 is essentially the 211.

 

[Anyoldears]

Th

The 274b engraved base is a totally different beast from the printed. If you can try that. However!!! Only the 2504 valvo beats the 274b the 2504 is now king. 2004 cannot trump 274b engraved

So who's got the G2504 and how much are they?

 

[highstream]

Psvane makes what they say is an exact WE engraved replica. True?

 

[plasmod3]

Psvane makes what they say is an exact WE engraved replica. True?

Well Psvane is chinese ( i think, pls correct when i am wrong). when the chinese says they make a replica ...haha i am not sure btw i am chinese singaporean ( now australianj) - not bagging my own just stating the truth