Levinson 532h or 533h for Revel salon2?

[Jeffkad]

Hi all. First time poster here. Need opinion on 532h vs 533h for Revel Salon2. I would prefer the 3 channel 533h as my system does double duty as 2 ch and mch system (center is a B&W HTM1, which also likes power). However, I am wondering if the 533, as it's not a true tri-mono design (shares single transformer), might be inferior to the true dual mono 532h, or are we splitting hairs here?

Also, in general, how do these ML amps compare to others I'm considering: Cary 500MB monoblocks, McCormack 750 monoblocks, McCormack DNA-500, Classe 2300, McIntosh 401 or 452?

Thanks much for any and all input.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I don't know much about the amps you mentioned. I would however say that the Salon 2 likes power.. Lot of it ... For this speaker to really show its best it needs a very powerful amplifier the more powerful the better.. Then one can sit down and enjoy this great speaker .. Truly one of the best around if amplification is up to it... Consider 300 w/ch at 8 ohm to be a minimum with this speaker.

 

[amirm]

Welcome to the forum Jeff. On your question, I think the shared power supply is a good thing there. In movies, the center channel requires more power than left and right. With a shared power supply, that channel gets to steal juice as it needs to pump more power. Since the amp is designed for three channels, when you use it in two for music, you should have ample juice to eliminate any risk of crosstalk.

I used to repair electronics when I was going to college and I repaired more amplifiers than I can count. In that regard, I care a lot about reliability. These things are like welding machines, putting out huge amount of current. They are heavy to ship back to factory or take to the store. So you want them to be well designed. On that front, the 532h series has stellar record. They have sold thousands of channels of amplifications and from what I hear, only a handful have ever had issues. We have had ours for two years now and done everything to it and nothing has failed.

I have compared the 532H which we have in our shop to a few others but not the brands you mention. As compared to its Pro Crown sister amps, it has smoother and better highs. It nicely approximates its three times more expensive Mark Levinson 532, keeping up with it until the last few dBs. At one third the price, that is a major accomplishment. All of this testing is with Salon 2 by the way.

 

[jap]

I suggest you add the Sanders Magtech amp(s) to your list.

 

[Jeffkad]

great info Amir. Thanks. Actually, I'm looking at used options here in the 5-6k range approx. Frantz, the other option that is similarly priced (maybe 1k cheaper) curently is 3 Cary 500MB monoblocks that put out 500 wpc into 8 ohms (1000 into 4ohms). Supposedly typical warm strong Cary house sound. I would like to add some warmth to the Salons (which is why Im also considering the McIntosh, although they are large beasts and not sure I have the room for them). Are you saying a good 500wpc will do better than a good 300wpc on these?

 

[joeinid]

Hi Jeff!

Welcome to WBF!

 

[jap]

Are you saying a good 500wpc will do better than a good 300wpc on these?

The Sanders Magtech puts out 500w in 8 ohms and 900w into 4 ohms.

From 20hz to 800hz your Salon 2s are 4 ohm speakers. That's where the musical foundation is, and that's where you need an amp with power and control.

If you want more power, get the Magtech monos.

The Magtech amps are very neutral, if you want some warmth, use a tube preamp.

 

[Jeffkad]

Hi Jeff!

Welcome to WBF!

Joe, you're everywhere, lol!!!

 

[Jeffkad]

The Sanders Magtech puts out 500w in 8 ohms and 900w into 4 ohms.

From 20hz to 800hz your Salon 2s are 4 ohm speakers. That's where the musical foundation is, and that's where you need an amp with power and control.

If you want more power, get the Magtech monos.

The Magtech amps are very neutral, if you want some warmth, use a tube preamp.

Amir, do you agree? Am I better off with more power?

 

[treitz3]

Hello and welcome to the WBF, Jeff. Glad to see you here.

 

[amirm]

Amir, do you agree? Am I better off with more power?

If you don't compromise elsewhere and you like to listen to reference level sounds yes. I compared the 532h driving the Salon 2 to our Reference 532. Up to about the last 6 db, they are neck and neck but in that final range, the 532h ran out of juice and became a bit thin sounding. We then tested it with a 500 watt Crown amp. It never got thin and had better bass to boot but its high frequency reproduction was not as smooth and accurate in my (subjective) view. The No 53 was the only amp powerful enough to drive the Salon 2 with ease with no compromise.

Again, our testing is in a very large showroom that is probably 2 to 4 times bigger than home listening spaces. So it takes more power there. I personally would stay with the 532h than to go with a high efficiency amp that compromised the highs. The former's lack of maximum power only shows up during the highest levels of listening whereas the other's weakness manifests itself all the time. Buying used and not being able to return the gear will put you in a difficult position here to evaluate this trade off.

 

[Jeffkad]

Amir, thanks. Truthfully, I am looking for not just better SQ but also more bass output. I currently have a Sunfire TGA5200 mch amp that puts out 5 x 200/400wpc into 8/4 ohms. I made a big leap from B&W N803s to Revel Salon 2's. Great upgrade in some ways, but the bass output is weak. Clearly I have dip/null problems in my room, but I also believe more and higher-end power will help the equation. I do get decent to good bass on well-made jazz recordings (I actually think the bass may be boosted on some of these recordings though), but I cant get much better bass response even when I use the prepro tone controls and boost the bass.

So, in addition to the probably significant increase in overall SQ I expect from using a much better quality amp, I also want to boost the bass response as much as I can. To lay it all out, and why I am looking at the particular amps I've mentioned, I want to achieve a warmer, fuller more engaging sound, along with very strong bass response. I dont care about the last ounce of detail, especially not at the expense of warmth, and I dont care if the bass is not absolutely the tightest.

Hope that helps enlighten the conversation about appropriate amps, and helps shape your responses.

PS- I will get around to measuring room response, but it wont matter much as I will probably not be able to apply the necessary room treatments anyway. Room correction, either in a prepro or in something like a Lyngdorf 2ch preamp (with Room Perfect) are more likely to be my weapons against the evil room interactions.

 

[Jeffkad]

The Sanders Magtech puts out 500w in 8 ohms and 900w into 4 ohms.

From 20hz to 800hz your Salon 2s are 4 ohm speakers. That's where the musical foundation is, and that's where you need an amp with power and control.

If you want more power, get the Magtech monos.

The Magtech amps are very neutral, if you want some warmth, use a tube preamp.

If you can, explain to me how McIntosh amps would compare power-wise, since they claim they provide the same "stable" power into any load, ie, the mc401 does 400 watts into any impedance. If the Levinson provides 300/450, and other 300w amps double to 600 amps at 4ohms, does the mac sound better on some level and worse on another on the salon2 (higher volume, output btwn 20hz and 800hz?)?

 

[amirm]

Bass frequencies can't be fixed readily with room treatment anyway. Best thing to do is to look to position your speaker and listening position to reduce that null. If you can place the two speakers at 25% points, it reduces two of the room modes.

A better amp will do very little to remedy this situation. You will only get there with much higher volumes.

 

[Jeffkad]

Not sure what you mean by 25%. As in 25% out into the room?

 

[amirm]

25% from side walls. This cancels out the first three horizontal (axial) room modes.

 

[MarinJim]

How come no one is mentioning more current from an amp, and not just watts?

 

[microstrip]

(...) Again, our testing is in a very large showroom that is probably 2 to 4 times
bigger than home listening spaces. So it takes more power there. (...)

Although it seems a natural way of thinking - bigger space, bigger power - I would not take it for granted in all cases. Some times bigger rooms have larger room gain, and develop a sensation of powerful sound with less powered amplifiers than we achieve in small rooms. Also, as generally larger rooms can be more reflexive and need less absorption than small rooms the analysis can be more complicated than it seems. Some time ago I carried a few simulations with CARA and it is fantastic what a few small areas of acoustic materials can do in a room in terms of sound power!

Amir, what are the dimensions of your showroom?

 

[amirm]

I don't have the dimensions handy. If I were to guess, I would say the width is about 30 feet, the length about 40 feet and the height about 15 to 20 feet, with acoustic tiles at around 10 feet. The space above expands to the full size of the space which is about 5,000 square feet (which sounds needs to fill whether it wants to or not). Even without that, the volume then is around 24,000 cubic feet which is way larger than the typical listening room.

 

[microstrip]

I don't have the dimensions handy. If I were to guess, I would say the width is about 30 feet, the length about 40 feet and the height about 15 to 20 feet, with acoustic tiles at around 10 feet. The space above expands to the full size of the space which is about 5,000 square feet (which sounds needs to fill whether it wants to or not). Even without that, the volume then is around 24,000 cubic feet which is way larger than the typical listening room.

Congratulations - I never realized it from the pictures. I would consider it a ballroom, not a listening room!

I am not prepared to debate if opinions based on listening in a room having a Schroeder frequency around 50 Hz can be transported to our modest average listening rooms. Do your typical clients have similar rooms? Now I understand why some manufacturers of full range speakers have versions with USA and European tuning!