Listening experience comparing 3 arms...Schroder CB 11", Kuzma 4point 9 and 4point 11"

[kozzmo]

3 Tonearms Kuzma 4point 9, 4point 11 and Schroder/Thrax CB 11"

All on a Kuzma Stabi R with an Lyra Etna(old non lambda)

Here are my observations...

The Kuzma 4p9 has been my daily driver for just under a year and it's been wonderful

Fast, airy, dynamic, great articulate bass and an amazing tracker but I have noticed that at times it can sound a bit lean...

The 4point 11 directly compared to the 4p9 is interesting....They are very similar as they should be

The 4p11 has much more weight to the mids and this to my ear is a big deal, the 11 also has a wider and deeper soundstage...

The 9" is however faster sounding but the 11" is no less dynamic....Maybe its the meatier sound that makes the 11" sound a tab bit slower....

But it is just as dynamic however...so that may be an illusion

The 4p11" with the Etna in MY system also sounds a bit darker and not as airy as the 9". And I have tried messing with VTA and so forth to no avail...

This coupled with the slowish character is something that keeps me from choosing one over the other....they both have great strengths and to me some disadvantages..

Enter the Schroder CB...

I've had this arm for a little while and tried it on a Garrard 401...I found it cumbersome to set up and on the Garrard it just never sounded right...

it was an utter disappointment..

after shelving it for awhile and having zero luck selling it I decided to give it another try...

On the Kuzma the Schroder CB is a different beast

Frank Schroder's recommends tensioning the different grub screws and bolts all to different varying degrees...

So after spending some time fine tuning the Schroder CB I finally got it to sound right...

it's dynamic and airy like the 9" Kuzma, not as much heft to the sound as the 11" Kuzma but more than the 9" kuzma....

Great bass...but the biggest thing to my ears is it's a more natural sounding arm...

Acoustic instruments sound so life like so real, an acoustic bass sounds like wood...

drums have air and you can feel the skins

Tons of texture and rich harmonics....

Just a wonderful arm....a very pleasant surprise

All 3 arms are world class...and just a little different from each other...

For the moment the Schroder CB strikes a great balance between the 2 other kuzma's...

 

[Tangram]

Terrific rundown. It’s surprising how few direct comparisons there are between the two 4Points.

 

[Tlay]

Nice write up. I have the CB 9 on my Kuzma Stabi R and want for nothing. Just a great all a rounder.

 

[kozzmo]

Terrific rundown. It’s surprising how few direct comparisons there are between the two 4Points.

yeah I posted this figuring I could't find ANYTHING out there so now theres at least one opinion out there...there may be a few more...but not a lot of them

 

[kozzmo]

Nice write up. I have the CB 9 on my Kuzma Stabi R and want for nothing. Just a great all a rounder.

I am interested in trying the CB9 as well...personally not a fan of the longer arms...curious what you hear in the CB??

 

[thekong]

I have the original version of the CB, which was made by Artemis, 12” with ebony armtube. I have not spent a lot of time fine tuning it, but I found it very hard to set the tracking force precisely. After I set the correct tracking force, just tightening up the grub screw would change it considerably. Not sure if the newer versions have taken care of this problem!

 

[Yeti]

I have the original version of the CB, which was made by Artemis, 12” with ebony armtube. I have not spent a lot of time fine tuning it, but I found it very hard to set the tracking force precisely. After I set the correct tracking force, just tightening up the grub screw would change it considerably. Not sure if the newer versions have taken care of this problem!

Is there no fine adjuster on the back of the arm tube? There’s one shown in this review:

Artemis Labs TA-1 Tonearm Review

Next, we will look at each of the adjustment parameters in detail: Azimuth, VTA, VTF and Anti-skating. The elongated shape of the TA-1’s counterweight gives the impression that the azimuth is adjusted by swinging it off to one side, causing azimuth to change by weight redistribution. This is...

www.dagogo.com

I run a Reference among my arms and the fine adjuster is pretty essentail.

 

[thekong]

[QUOTE="Is there no fine adjuster on the back of the arm tube? There’s one shown in this review:

[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is a fine adjuster at the end of the counterweight stub, but at least in my unit, there is a certain amount of play once you back up the fine adjuster, so it can be rocked slightly. I don’t feel comfortable with that! Instead, I am thinking of making fine adjustments by attaching small o-rings to the counterweight stub!

 

[kozzmo]

I have the original version of the CB, which was made by Artemis, 12” with ebony armtube. I have not spent a lot of time fine tuning it, but I found it very hard to set the tracking force precisely. After I set the correct tracking force, just tightening up the grub screw would change it considerably. Not sure if the newer versions have taken care of this problem!

Using a small square has made setting VTF a lot easier....by keeping the side of the weight perpendicular to the record surface changing VTF becomes much more predictable...

 

[Chrisl]

Timely to read comparison!. I'm upgrading my old RB300 to Kuzma 4 Point 9 with a Hana Blue cartridge. It's arriving this friday! This will be used on a Nottingham Spacedeck.

 

[kozzmo]

Timely to read comparison!. I'm upgrading my old RB300 to Kuzma 4 Point 9 with a Hana Blue cartridge. It's arriving this friday! This will be used on a Nottingham Spacedeck.

You are in for a treat

 

[Chrisl]

You are in for a treat

Gad...I hope so Kozzmo There are so many great tonearm/cartridges out there I've had to rely on reviews and the great guidance of Thom Galibier! Great guy and easily recommended

 

[kozzmo]

Gad...I hope so Kozzmo There are so many great tonearm/cartridges out there I've had to rely on reviews and the great guidance of Thom Galibier! Great guy and easily recommended

please report back your impressions...

 

[Chrisl]

Well, I was able to listen to one side of an album, and my original Nottingham motor went kaput. Wouldn't spin at 33...shit! I'm tracking a new one down now.
Impressions never the less was I was blown away! The sound was rich yet incredible detailed, and with a huge soundstage and real depth. This is an huge upgrade over my Rega. Such a more enjoyable experience over my Roon server, a lot better! I NOW see what all the fuss was about spending some money for a quality arm and cartridge.

 

[KPC]

Great minds think alike - I have both the CB-12 and 4point-11 for their exceptional price/performance.

 

[kozzmo]

Great minds think alike - I have both the CB-12 and 4point-11 for their exceptional price/performance.

The more I use the Schroder the more I like it.

 

[Lukas at Sambuco]

I have learned a lot from Frank Schröder, and Mr. Kuzma, but I still find the unipivot bearing concept better. If only we could control chatter? Well I spend 5 years developping the Sambuco tonearm. It`s bearing point is under approx. 1500 gramms of pressure, without adding this to the weight of the tonearm. Inertia is better balanced, like in the old Graham tonearms. Risk a look at https://www.sambuco.net The Sambuco is not a stylish Porsche or Ferrari, but sonically I am proud.....