Kuzma 4point 11 better than 4point 9???
- Thread starter kozzmo
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Well I guess I will reply to my own question here...maybe someone will see it....I went and picked up an 4point 11 to directly compare with the 9". The 11 has the older metal bearing cups and not the jeweled cups that 9" has. I have been led to believe, by the distributor, that there is no real large sonic benefit to the new bearings. Anyways this is what I have heard so far with a Lyra Etna non lambda:
The 9" 4point is faster, the bass seems deeper or more present? In direct comparison the 9 appears to be a little more lean and nimble and perhaps a bit more airy. It is also maybe a bit more bright sounding but more explosive in general.
The 11" is not as fast but just as dynamic, the bass seems to be less prominent, maybe it's not a nimble as the 9" and that may be what I am hearing. The soundstage seems wider and with solid imaging. It does sound a bit dark in direct comparison with the 9" and just a little slower overall. But the 11" sounds more composed and relaxed with a midrange that has more meat to it. Strings just absolutely sing. It definitely sounds like there is more heft to the sound in comparison with the 4p9.
I was hoping that the 11" would be better all around making the change a no brainer but it is not turning out that way. I enjoy the fast explosiveness of the 9" a lot but and miss it a lot but the extra weight and composure of the 11" is beguiling and very addicting.
I guess the perfect component doesn't exist but a combo of the 9" fast explosive nimble response with the heft and composure of 11" would be IMO the perfect tonearm....
The 9" 4point is faster, the bass seems deeper or more present? In direct comparison the 9 appears to be a little more lean and nimble and perhaps a bit more airy. It is also maybe a bit more bright sounding but more explosive in general.
The 11" is not as fast but just as dynamic, the bass seems to be less prominent, maybe it's not a nimble as the 9" and that may be what I am hearing. The soundstage seems wider and with solid imaging. It does sound a bit dark in direct comparison with the 9" and just a little slower overall. But the 11" sounds more composed and relaxed with a midrange that has more meat to it. Strings just absolutely sing. It definitely sounds like there is more heft to the sound in comparison with the 4p9.
I was hoping that the 11" would be better all around making the change a no brainer but it is not turning out that way. I enjoy the fast explosiveness of the 9" a lot but and miss it a lot but the extra weight and composure of the 11" is beguiling and very addicting.
I guess the perfect component doesn't exist but a combo of the 9" fast explosive nimble response with the heft and composure of 11" would be IMO the perfect tonearm....
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I would never believe that there is no difference between metal and ruby bearings. Your findings are a mixture of differences in length of arm wands and bearings. It’s impossible to say which responsible for the changes you heard but I heard more agile, lively sound from my 9” SME V compared to 12” SME V. On the other hand 12” sounds more relaxed and grounded.
The distributor said not a large difference in sound. Not NO difference...it appears that your experience with the SME 9" and 12" mimic what I heard. For what it's worth I went from the SME V 9" to the 9" Kuzma and the 4p9 has that liveliness of the 9" SME more so than the 11" Kuzma....
I love Kuzma 4point arms but SME V with Kondo cable inside sounds more lively to me. That doesn't necessarily mean SME V is a better arm than Kuzma 4point. BTW I can't stand listening SME V in stock vdH cables (headshell, inner and tonearm).
I had the stock vdh cable on the SME and I absolutely loved it. The 4point however tracks better and it was immediately obvious to me upon hearing it but I would have no issues going back to the sme it was the easiest arm ever to set up.
I came to a very similar conclusion, both had the jeweled cups. I kept the 9 incher and traded in the 11 for other gear. Both were mounted in a Basis Ovation TT.
Kozmo, great write up. I hope you can try the Safir 9 one day soon. I went from 4p 11 to the Safir. I demo's the Safir with Kondo, was just a little too much goodness for me and had mine custom wired with Cardar Clear. Loving it. I think there are benefits and drawbacks to both 9 and 11 inch arms. So enjoyed your direct comparisons....
The following is my short write up comparing the 9” Safir to the 4P14” , which was posted in the Safir thread. In my experience, the longer arm does have a slight advantage in the soundstage width!
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Regarding the Safir, not necessarily a negative comment, but an observation that I would be interested to know if other users share similar findings. I replaced my 4Point14 with the Safir on a JC Verdier pairing with a Dynavector XV 1S. To my ears, the Safir outperformed the 4Point14 considerably in every area but one, which is the soundstage width. While the Safir’s imaging at the outer edges are better defined (same for the imaging anywhere else in the soundstage) than the 4Point14, the soundstage width just seem to be so slightly narrower. In this area, I found my Rockport airbearing linear tracking arm again offered a very slightly wider soundstage than the 4Point14, but the imaging also not as defined as the Safir. I can’t help but wonder whether this slight soundstage width difference is caused by the tracking errors of a 9” arm vs 14” and linear tracker!
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Regarding the Safir, not necessarily a negative comment, but an observation that I would be interested to know if other users share similar findings. I replaced my 4Point14 with the Safir on a JC Verdier pairing with a Dynavector XV 1S. To my ears, the Safir outperformed the 4Point14 considerably in every area but one, which is the soundstage width. While the Safir’s imaging at the outer edges are better defined (same for the imaging anywhere else in the soundstage) than the 4Point14, the soundstage width just seem to be so slightly narrower. In this area, I found my Rockport airbearing linear tracking arm again offered a very slightly wider soundstage than the 4Point14, but the imaging also not as defined as the Safir. I can’t help but wonder whether this slight soundstage width difference is caused by the tracking errors of a 9” arm vs 14” and linear tracker!
Did you tweak the Safir VTA at all to see if there was a change in soundstage width?
Believe it or not this direct comparison is elusive in the interweb so thanks for doing it. At one point I was considering adding a second arm and the 4P9 was a strong contender. But I just sold my multi-input phonostage so back to the simplicity of one arm. If only 4Point headshells weren’t so outrageously expensive!
I agree, Safir has clearly better imaging but the stage is limited to the outer edges of the speakers.
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