Living Voice R80 OBX

[metei]

That's interesting that you chose the R80 then. I found the R80 and the VOX cut pretty much from the same cloth. The R80 of course does not have the scale, the dynamics and the speed of the VOX, but tonally very similar and just as musical.

That's a combination of some reasons. On my side; going up my HiFi ladder, I realized I at some point I had to chose between technical & detail or romantic & musical. My choice at that time (considering I would have one system only) was to go technical. I have a very revealing main system with Focal Maestro Evo as the speaker with Beryllium tweeter. Than life took a different way, I had the chance to own a second system. I decided that would be a musical one. On that route came the problem; knowing what detail was also present in the songs I listen to, I wanted to find my balance point of technical / musical. Tried few speakers (Ktema, Harbeth 40) and few amps (Mc 1100 + 2301 set, Accuphase integrated) and a few as I wrote above. Here comes the issue of living in Turkey. The market for High-End HiFi is so narrow, many High-End brands don't enter full force. There is almost never a chance to home demo, few times to demo in distributor showroom. Best option is to get some second hand, maybe old version, listen in own system and try to figure out what the newer version will be like etc. Many High-End gear is ordered per request via downpayment. So that's kind of navigating in dark.. High-End Munich was so informative in that sense. Although in different environments, with different gear, I could make better educated guess of gear there considering the other gear I am somewhat familiar with etc.
The horn-ified sound is not my taste (not the romantic & musical one). I don't know, maybe that it is a little over romant-ified with physical horns or the way sound is dispersed in the room. Most probably it is that I am too much used to conventional speaker design sound that I would need hours and hours of listening to break that familiarity barrier. In that context, R80 is my gem. Still that romantic & musical speaker (if paired with that kind of electronics) but not that horn-ified sound. Similar applies to ribbon tweeters. Beryllium is my upper limit of speed and harshness. My border lies in that small gap between Beryllium and ribbon tweeters. Similar for planars, maybe unfamiliarity but they sound so mechanic to me..

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

This is kind of a romantic movie style love story. I listened to R80's in High-End Munich 2023 and was head over heels. Among all the rooms I had visited, with all the lovely sound, this room was maybe not the "best" but made me fall for the most. I took pictures of everything, the names, the brands but a little bir broken heartedly hearing the supposed price range, which was above my limits back then. Time went by, things changed, got some unexpected extra cash and asked the distributor. He was also eager on importing one of the first ever commercial R80's and saved me from some cumulated gear through years and dices rolled. Mine is Serial number 10 and as far as I know, the second or third commercially available pair.
I also wanted to have the SJS 300B integrated along with R80's but the importing procedures, all the documentation, lab tests etc. was a big burden so the distributor proposed a Kondo Ovation PM2i along with it. First came the PM2i, used them with Harbeth 40.2 40th year specials, which sounded lovely. Then came the R80's. After the first days of euphoria washed away, I wasn't very happy with the sound I had. Talked to the distributor about it. Knowing I was in love with R80's, He proposed to return the PM2i without loss but due to economic restraints, could not cash back but only switch the amp with His brand gear and that was CH Precision L1 + A1.5. Once the CH duo arrived, I realized what was what.
These are the most transparent speakers I have ever heard. They play whatever is before and after them even the slightest change in the cabling and more importantly, the room and the positioning. With CH duo, I spent some time for speaker positioning and even changes in centimeters / fraction of inch made difference. Since this system is in a rented home, I didn't want to apply too much sound treatment on the walls. I found a solution of diffusers with stand alone feet. With all these the sound was very very good. But is was 'only' very very good because these are very transparent speakers and CH is known for their very transparency. What most people complain about CH gear came into life doubled; compared to system my ears are used to, this system sounded "lifeless". The system became extra revealing. Everything is there, like under a microscope but they weren't coming all together easily at all times. The main source had to be perfect to begin with and not all songs are recorded or distributed equally.. One more problem, I realized later as below was that the A1.5 power amplifier was under--working. Most of the time the power was 1 - 3 Watt due to relatively small (30 sqmt / 320 sqft) room and near (230 cm / 7.5 ft apart speakers) listening position and relatively high (92 dB) sensitivity of the speakers.
I evaluated my options. I thought I needed either a speaker with more "character of its own" or a more "romantic" tube amp. Was looking at both directions when I came across a pair of Jadis SE300B powers. 10 Watt, 300B sound (as the SJS 300B integrated I had listened during High-End Munich 2023). So finally this has solved my problem. I'm back with the lovely, warm, musical sound I fell in love with during the show at that room. I still have some work to do with the speaker positioning, some minor movement. The Jadis powers worked lovely with CH - L1. Might be a more "romantic" pre would do better but L1 is in a league of its own and L1 being revealing balances the total sound character of the system. The system makes me want to dance to the music (which I'm no good at) and sing along (which I'm terrible at).
So the speakers: repeat - summarizing above; as You can see from their web page, R80 is not under Atrium speaker family, it is a family of its own and I attest that. No regular bass drive, but two mid-bas drives and a lovely tweeter drive. Never was short of bass in my room, for my listening levels, not only in the listening position but throughout the room, never needed a sub. I went for the OBX (outboard crossover) model since this was once in a lifetime purchase. The crossover is designed bi-wire input and the jumpers for the inputs and between the OBX & the speaker are not included. LV leaves these to the listener to chose and tweak as per their taste. It fills my room easily with 3 - 5 watt daily listening level, 7 - 9 watt high volume with peaks of 12 - 13 watt (once or twice momentarily during months of listening) thanks to CH A1.5 digital power meter. They are the most transparent, most revealing, least forgiving speakers I have heard both before them (gear) and after (room & positioning). They love smooth sounding, low level output tube amps. With the Jadis, I realized that they perform better at low volume levels compared to CH A1.5. Most probably due to CH A1.5 wasn't "moving" (below 1 watt) with low volume levels enough due to high efficiency of r80's and Jadis perform better here. Also a final note for future buyers; R80's do prefer standing firm on the ground. So I recommend playing them with their original spikes before trying dampening feet for reference point. I tried Isoacoustics with them but luckily after I tried the original spikes and R80's didn't like them at all. Now they stand on the original spikes.

A great write up /metei'. Thank you.

Yes, before you wrote your post, and when I listened to the R80's last year at a UK Hifi Show and the OBX RW4's in 2022 also at a UK HiFi Show, I too was in awe at the beautiful musical and romantic sound from these amazing speakers that were connected to amazing electronics (Simon's SJS electronics) and amazing TT set-ups (Kuzma Stabi R, Kuzma XL AIR and Grand Prix Audio Monaco V3 both fitted with Kuzma arms and cartridges with a Consolidated Audio SUTs).

For me at both shows, the Definitive Audio / Living Voice / SJS systems sounded one of the best if not THE best system in these two UK Hifi Shows. I stayed in both rooms for over 3 hours each, I loved the sound that much, plus Kevin (Scott) was playing some fantastic music too which I hadn't heard before (and therefore set me on a path to exploring and buying the same albums Kevin had).
The sound was so amazing to my ears, I constantly go onto YouTube and listen to these two system plus other Living Voice Speaker systems to get 'my fix' so to say even though it isn't a substitute to listening to them live but it helps.

Why don't you initially talk to Kevin (Scott) about what Definitive Audio can do to help with the importing the SJS electronics equipment into Turkey without having to pay crazy on costs from import duties, taxes etc. ?.
The beauty of purchasing SJS electronics, is Kevin and Simon have fully tested such electronics with the Living Voice Speakers including the R80s. Therefore you have full piece of mind that you should hear close to what you heard at the Munich Show last year !
Also don't forget that the price listing Kevin shows at the HiFi Shows for Simon's SJS electronic equipment is specifically for the equipment he is displaying and playing music from i.e. the very high end of SJS products (i,e. Their 'Premier' line). SJS also make cheaper versions of their electronic equipment that Kevin shows at the HiFi Shows with still using very high quality wiring and components just not as expensive.
Check out SJS's website - sjs electroacoustics for more info on their products.

Another alternative for you if you don't / can't g down the SJ electronics route is to look at purchasing second hand original Kondo equipment (not the Kondo Ovation Integrated which I have read from people doesn't sound like the original Kondo equipment) as Definitive Audio used the original Kondo equipment for their earlier Speaker designs including their very expensive Living Voice VOX Olympian Horn Speakers.

And one other alternative is to have a look at the Definitive Audio website in the menu item link 'Definitive Audio's Stuff' where Kevin lists a lot of ex demo and second hand (I guess traded in) equipment of very high quality including very nice electronics (which I would guess at least for the ex-demo equipment) he has used with his Living Voice Speakers. And from talking to Kevin about this ex-demo and second hand equipment, you may find some very nice high quality electronics at a very competitive price to go with your Living Voice R80 Speakers to make them sing to the sound you like !

 

[metei]

A great write up /metei'. Thank you.

Yes, before you wrote your post, and when I listened to the R80's last year at a UK Hifi Show and the OBX RW4's in 2022 also at a UK HiFi Show, I too was in awe at the beautiful musical and romantic sound from these amazing speakers that were connected to amazing electronics (Simon's SJS electronics) and amazing TT set-ups (Kuzma Stabi R, Kuzma XL AIR and Grand Prix Audio Monaco V3 both fitted with Kuzma arms and cartridges with a Consolidated Audio SUTs).

For me at both shows, the Definitive Audio / Living Voice / SJS systems sounded one of the best if not THE best system in these two UK Hifi Shows. I stayed in both rooms for over 3 hours each, I loved the sound that much, plus Kevin (Scott) was playing some fantastic music too which I hadn't heard before (and therefore set me on a path to exploring and buying the same albums Kevin had).
The sound was so amazing to my ears, I constantly go onto YouTube and listen to these two system plus other Living Voice Speaker systems to get 'my fix' so to say even though it isn't a substitute to listening to them live but it helps.

Why don't you initially talk to Kevin (Scott) about what Definitive Audio can do to help with the importing the SJS electronics equipment into Turkey without having to pay crazy on costs from import duties, taxes etc. ?.
The beauty of purchasing SJS electronics, is Kevin and Simon have fully tested such electronics with the Living Voice Speakers including the R80s. Therefore you have full piece of mind that you should hear close to what you heard at the Munich Show last year !
Also don't forget that the price listing Kevin shows at the HiFi Shows for Simon's SJS electronic equipment is specifically for the equipment he is displaying and playing music from i.e. the very high end of SJS products (i,e. Their 'Premier' line). SJS also make cheaper versions of their electronic equipment that Kevin shows at the HiFi Shows with still using very high quality wiring and components just not as expensive.
Check out SJS's website - sjs electroacoustics for more info on their products.

Another alternative for you if you don't / can't g down the SJ electronics route is to look at purchasing second hand original Kondo equipment (not the Kondo Ovation Integrated which I have read from people doesn't sound like the original Kondo equipment) as Definitive Audio used the original Kondo equipment for their earlier Speaker designs including their very expensive Living Voice VOX Olympian Horn Speakers.

And one other alternative is to have a look at the Definitive Audio website in the menu item link 'Definitive Audio's Stuff' where Kevin lists a lot of ex demo and second hand (I guess traded in) equipment of very high quality including very nice electronics (which I would guess at least for the ex-demo equipment) he has used with his Living Voice Speakers. And from talking to Kevin about this ex-demo and second hand equipment, you may find some very nice high quality electronics at a very competitive price to go with your Living Voice R80 Speakers to make them sing to the sound you like !

Hi there Bonesy Jonesy,
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. One thing though; the problem is not the taxes (although they are higher than global average) the problem is the bureaucracy. Meaning all the documentation, lab tests etc. need to be done. If it is only for one amplifier, neither the exporter, nor the importer prefers to go through this much of pain. If the brand is present, for a new line / model, not a big issue (as in case of R80), but if the brand is not present, the procedure goes on and on. Also importing second hand items is moving mountains. It is allowed only under special circumstances that the importer needs to justify why that particular item "has to be" imported etc. I know it may seem illogical but these are the regulations.
I am at the point where I have finally made my R80's sing for me, which after five months is more than enough for me and Jadis SE300B are not bad themselves. But as all of us around here, the geek in me started itching the moment I was happy with the SE / 300B sound. I have my eyes on SJS and also Thomas Mayer (VinylSavor) amplifiers :]] But that will be another season. First I shall settle and keep acquainted with the new sound and since it makes me want to listen more and more, listen to some music..

 

[bonzo75]

That's interesting that you chose the R80 then. I found the R80 and the VOX cut pretty much from the same cloth. The R80 of course does not have the scale, the dynamics and the speed of the VOX, but tonally very similar and just as musical.

I don’t see how you can hear similarity between scam speak drivers in a cone and Vitavox and TAD drivers in a multi way horn

 

[adrianywu]

I don’t see how you can hear similarity between scam speak drivers in a cone and Vitavox and TAD drivers in a multi way horn

I heard what I heard, and I own a pair of VOX with Elysian. What is your experience comparing the two ?

 

[bonzo75]

I heard what I heard, and I own a pair of VOX with Elysian. What is your experience comparing the two ?

They don’t sound similar at all and I don’t see how. Your upstream electronics and cables must be colouring the sound to make the two sound similar. I heard the R80 at Kevin’s with SJS electronics and the VOX many times at Munich with Kondo. Accepting that Munich is not ideal, I really don’t understand how you can get the two radically different designs to sound similar unless you are immensely colouring the chain.

Nowadays people here any two belt drives sound similar and generalise all field coils sound similar. Maybe this is one of those type cases

 

[adrianywu]

They don’t sound similar at all and I don’t see how. Your upstream electronics and cables must be colouring the sound to make the two sound similar. I heard the R80 at Kevin’s with SJS electronics and the VOX many times at Munich with Kondo. Accepting that Munich is not ideal, I really don’t understand how you can get the two radically different designs to sound similar unless you are immensely colouring the chain.

Nowadays people here any two belt drives sound similar and generalise all field coils sound similar. Maybe this is one of those type cases

They are voiced similarly. Very different technology obviously, but tonally similar. I have tried a wide range of amplifications with the VOX Olympian, including different models of Kondo, Lamm and FM Acoustics. I co-own the speakers with a friend who represents Kondo in Hong Kong, and we have tried pretty much all the amps he has, both current and discontinued models. I have been to Kevin's demo room at Long Eaton twice, and he also used Kondo electronics (in those days), and so the set up is very similar. In fact, Kevin set up our system here initially using the same Kondo cables and amps. Not to say the R80 is the VOX's equal, but with less demanding music, it has a very similar tonal balance and presentation. I spent a lot of time in Munich last year at the Living Voice Room with the R80 OBX, and after I returned home, I bought a few of the same LPs Kevin played on the system there. I would say the R80 is voiced more similarly to the VOX than to other brand of speakers that use similar types of drivers. So much so that I remember a review in TAS, if I remember correctly, that criticised the speakers as being coloured. I don't think this is necessarily true, just the preference of their designer. Just because it sounds different from the Wilsons, Magicos and Zellatons does not mean it is incorrect.

 

[morricab]

I heard what I heard, and I own a pair of VOX with Elysian. What is your experience comparing the two ?

Having heard both speakers now a few times I have to agree with Ked that they don’t really sound similar.

 

[DasguteOhr]

They are voiced similarly. Very different technology obviously, but tonally similar. I have tried a wide range of amplifications with the VOX Olympian, including different models of Kondo, Lamm and FM Acoustics. I co-own the speakers with a friend who represents Kondo in Hong Kong, and we have tried pretty much all the amps he has, both current and discontinued models. I have been to Kevin's demo room at Long Eaton twice, and he also used Kondo electronics (in those days), and so the set up is very similar. In fact, Kevin set up our system here initially using the same Kondo cables and amps. Not to say the R80 is the VOX's equal, but with less demanding music, it has a very similar tonal balance and presentation. I spent a lot of time in Munich last year at the Living Voice Room with the R80 OBX, and after I returned home, I bought a few of the same LPs Kevin played on the system there. I would say the R80 is voiced more similarly to the VOX than to other brand of speakers that use similar types of drivers. So much so that I remember a review in TAS, if I remember correctly, that criticised the speakers as being coloured. I don't think this is necessarily true, just the preference of their designer. Just because it sounds different from the Wilsons, Magicos and Zellatons does not mean it is incorrect.

You have to be really bad at speaker /xover construction for the Scanspeak Ellipticor series to sound unnatural or coloured. These drivers have so many strengths and few weaknesses.
living voice are rather unspectacular and homogeneously tuned. They never sound like "I am here". I would rather go in the direction of Harbeth with more resolution. my opinion