What's your basis for the 5X value comparison? Have you heard Golum's modified amp in his system?
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Modding my ARC Ref Anniversary
- Thread starter ayreman
- Start date
I don't need to hear Golum's amp. I can clearly see what's been done and what parts were used. For me that is more than enough to get a pretty good idea about SQ improvement he obtained.
Over the past 8 years my system received well over 20 different mods and I remember quite clearly how each mod affected the SQ. I can now rely on this accumulated personal experience to extrapolate from photos and accounts of other people how many levels up they have moved in SQ.
Question for the guys "in the know" - by any chance does anybody know which JFets are being used by ARC in Ref75? Positions are Q1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Hats off to you all for doing these mods and then also sharing them.
This is where I know I am out of my league. But this has garnered a real appreciation for what goes into these units and the skill and knowledge it takes to produce.
I am the proud owner of a Ref 6SE and am not in the slightest insulted by the sentiments shared here about the unit. After a series of A-B tests with like-priced preamps, the Ref 6SE was clearly superior. So the impact your modifications have on me is to—NOT whip out a soldering iron, but rather—open a new Gryphon Pandora / Boulder 2110 savings account.
But in the meantime, there are zero regrets owning the wonderful Ref 6SE.
This is where I know I am out of my league. But this has garnered a real appreciation for what goes into these units and the skill and knowledge it takes to produce.
I am the proud owner of a Ref 6SE and am not in the slightest insulted by the sentiments shared here about the unit. After a series of A-B tests with like-priced preamps, the Ref 6SE was clearly superior. So the impact your modifications have on me is to—NOT whip out a soldering iron, but rather—open a new Gryphon Pandora / Boulder 2110 savings account.
But in the meantime, there are zero regrets owning the wonderful Ref 6SE.
Hi Golum, any update on how your project turned out? I'm really interested in hearing your comments.
Actually I can't comment much still as the end of spring and summer were quite hectic, so I didn't manage to clock on more than 200h on it after the mod and the "issue" are those VCaps as everybody claims they need like 600h to start fully singing. But even so, I find the amp now really engaging and musical while details/speed/coherence are quite a step better than before. But long winter is coming, so it will get a proper time to showcase the abilities after the surgery.
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That's about what I thought you'd say, there always seems to be a lower noise floor with a more 'musical' sound. You'll find that there is more detail and space around the instruments and voices as well as more defined bass after the caps are finished burning in. I've never regretted doing this type of upgrade, especially with solid state audio equipment. And with digital audio you will always (guaranteed) hear a huge improvement after installing a femto clock.
Turned the amp this morning after sitting put for more than a month and I do have a smile on my face entire day...sounds really amazing. I'm glad I did this entire thing
Great to hear that! It makes you wonder about the cost of constantly buying newer equipment.
But wait a minute, Golum! You haven't done the entire thing yet. You've only done about 60% of what can and should be done. You can't quit yet!
My big question, and maybe its been asked… are you modifying to a sonic goal, or just replacing parts with higher quality parts? Do you have some way to sonically evaluate the parts you are choosing, alone and in conjunction with the others? What are your criteria for replacing parts?
I ask, because what I have learned about the Pilium electronics upgrade to “devine” line from prior “Brutale” line was nearly all about “voicing, voicing, voicing.” Two years worth of sonically evaluating every part and only replacing with a new or custom made part when the sound was closer to their ideal.
I ask, because what I have learned about the Pilium electronics upgrade to “devine” line from prior “Brutale” line was nearly all about “voicing, voicing, voicing.” Two years worth of sonically evaluating every part and only replacing with a new or custom made part when the sound was closer to their ideal.
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I have components modified to achieve a much higher level of sound quality. Pilium may be an exception, but many manufacturers - Audio Research and Pathos (which I own) included, build to a price point and "voice" within predetermined cost constraints. So even with a great circuit design they use a lot of less expensive parts. Frequently you can improve sound quality without changing the circuit design just by replacing capacitors, resistors, wire, etc. with higher quality/more expensive versions. There is always some amount of risk with this because you can't cost effectively test/compare each potential replacement part. But there are some resources available to help with this. You can talk to mod houses (e.g., Modwright, Parts Connection, etc.) for advice/suggestions. There are sites like Humble Homemade Hifi which have tested, reviewed, and rank ordered dozens of different brands/models of capacitors - see: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html. And there are reviewers like Jeff Day at PFO who frequently mods/upgrades components, and reviews of modified equipment online to learn from. In some cases the manufacturer will help. When I first thought about upgrading my Pathos TT RR I called the factory and asked what if any parts upgrades they had experimented with, and what upgrades were possible that might have been too expensive to go into production. They suggested specific capacitors and resistors to upgrade in order to realize an improvement in sound quality, and have provided advice with regard to each of my subsequent upgrades. Note that I successfully upgraded another brand of amplifier after the distributor recommended against modifications because of all of the careful "voicing" they had done. Over my 40+ years as an audiophile I have found modifying/upgrading components to be the most cost effective way to achieve world class sound. Every component I have including some cables has been upgraded and I have yet to undertake a modification that wasn't a success. Having a good tech who can do such upgrades has been critical for me since I don't have the skill/experience to do them myself. I have discussed a couple of my modification "adventures" in detail at this forum, for example:
Pathos TT RR Mods/Upgrades - 2
Superb job by Bill Thalman of Music Technology, Inc. in Springfield, VA on the 2nd and most ambitious upgrade (3rd photo from left) of my (made in 2004) Pathos TT RR. The attached photos show the differences between the stock amp and the modified versions. No changes in circuit design, just...
www.whatsbestforum.com
Remaking My Bache Audio Metro 001's
I learned of Bache Audio from the review (link below) and was surprised at how good the Metro 001's sounded in person. This was after several unsatisfying sessions at In Living Stereo listening to the Devore O/93 and O/96 which they could never get to sound consistently good. I bought the Bache...
www.whatsbestforum.com
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You make a very important point, in that modding like this is a scattershot approach. The thing to remember is that you are fundamentally changing the sound of an expensive component. I've never had a bad experience doing this, but I suppose someone might have liked the original sterile cold sound better.
I think if someone is considering modding an amplifier or preamplifier and wants to do it in stages, you'd probably be best off upgrading the capacitors in the power supply first - usually with Mundorf electrolytic capacitors. Then finish the burn in process and evaluate the new sound. I predict you'll hear a lower noise floor and a deeper more profound bass.
I have components modified to achieve a much higher level of sound quality. Pilium may be an exception, but many manufacturers - Audio Research and Pathos (which I own) included, build to a price point and "voice" within predetermined cost constraints. So even with a great circuit design they use a lot of less expensive parts. Frequently you can improve sound quality without changing the circuit design just by replacing capacitors, resistors, wire, etc. with higher quality/more expensive versions. There is always some amount of risk with this because you can't cost effectively test/compare each potential replacement part. But there are some resources available to help with this. You can talk to mod houses (e.g., Modwright, Parts Connection, etc.) for advice/suggestions. There are sites like Humble Homemade Hifi which have tested, reviewed, and rank ordered dozens of different brands/models of capacitors - see: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html. And there are reviewers like Jeff Day at PFO who frequently mods/upgrades components, and reviews of modified equipment online to learn from. In some cases the manufacturer will help. When I first thought about upgrading my Pathos TT RR I called the factory and asked what if any parts upgrades they had experimented with, and what upgrades were possible that might have been too expensive to go into production. They suggested specific capacitors and resistors to upgrade in order to realize an improvement in sound quality, and have provided advice with regard to each of my subsequent upgrades. Note that I successfully upgraded another brand of amplifier after the distributor recommended against modifications because of all of the careful "voicing" they had done. Over my 40+ years as an audiophile I have found modifying/upgrading components to be the most cost effective way to achieve world class sound. Every component I have including some cables has been upgraded and I have yet to undertake a modification that wasn't a success. Having a good tech who can do such upgrades has been critical for me since I don't have the skill/experience to do them myself. I have discussed a couple of my modification "adventures" in detail at this forum, for example:
Pathos TT RR Mods/Upgrades - 2
Superb job by Bill Thalman of Music Technology, Inc. in Springfield, VA on the 2nd and most ambitious upgrade (3rd photo from left) of my (made in 2004) Pathos TT RR. The attached photos show the differences between the stock amp and the modified versions. No changes in circuit design, just...Remaking My Bache Audio Metro 001's
I learned of Bache Audio from the review (link below) and was surprised at how good the Metro 001's sounded in person. This was after several unsatisfying sessions at In Living Stereo listening to the Devore O/93 and O/96 which they could never get to sound consistently good. I bought the Bache...
This was beautiful to read. For many years, I lived in the "modify-it-myself" world, particularly with crossover loudspeakers and low level crossovers; almost all modded or homemade). Thus I loved the "humblehomemade"site and didn't know about it when I was younger (and poorer). That guy tested far more caps than I ever did and it should not be underestimated how much work that required. Respect! (I wish he would have tested Black Gates, but they were discontinued- although still available. Still, it would have been fun to see his results)
But this is where the roots of my audiophilia occurred, and I loved every minute of it. Thanks for the post.
Nonsense! They choke nothing. The more of them I added around the tubes, the better everything sounded: more focused soundstage, better resolved, clearer and a tad closer. Music sounds more life-like.
I am happy for you!
Not intending to be annoying -- but how can you really remember what it sounded like more than a month ago?
I don’t remember -> which does not prevent me from having a smile on my face as i have a feeling that system never sounded this good while i did not change anything in between…