Most Musical AND Refined vintage cartridges

[SoundMann]

I has been looking for a vintage cartridge that is warmer, smoother and more forgiving than my current cartridge, a very transparent and revealing (but not overly bright) Signet TK7e.

This cartridge must also be musically involving, with nothing that will overtly detract from its engagement.

I believe that the original Koetsu Black, classic Ortofon SPU series, and several of the top stereo cartridges made up to 1965 produced the general type of sound I am looking for, but I also require an unfailing level of high frequency purity and refinement that most vintage (and modern) cartridges fail to possess (my ears are very sensitive to it).

If I had the money, there are a few top end cartridges that may suffice (I like the Air Tight Opus). But I am very poor these days, and would like to find a used cartridge that gives me this level of "musical" refinement for under $500.

I have been looking at the Supex SD 801/901 series, but don't know if they can deliver enough of the above requirements to significantly better my Signet, which is about as good as a vintage MM cartridge that I have heard, despite being rather unforgiving of less than perfect recordings.

 

[Argonaut]

Consider picking up a cheap Denon 103 with a broken or missing stylus / cantilever and sending it to Andy Kim who will perform his body mod / boron / micro line upgrade service on it … might come in a little over your $500 but not by much , he might even have a suitable candidate in stock .

https://phonocartridgeretipping.com/services/

 

[Paul1960]

I has been looking for a vintage cartridge that is warmer, smoother and more forgiving than my current cartridge, a very transparent and revealing (but not overly bright) Signet TK7e.

This cartridge must also be musically involving, with nothing that will overtly detract from its engagement.

I believe that the original Koetsu Black, classic Ortofon SPU series, and several of the top stereo cartridges made up to 1965 produced the general type of sound I am looking for, but I also require an unfailing level of high frequency purity and refinement that most vintage (and modern) cartridges fail to possess (my ears are very sensitive to it).

If I had the money, there are a few top end cartridges that may suffice (I like the Air Tight Opus). But I am very poor these days, and would like to find a used cartridge that gives me this level of "musical" refinement for under $500.

I have been looking at the Supex SD 801/901 series, but don't know if they can deliver enough of the above requirements to significantly better my Signet, which is about as good as a vintage MM cartridge that I have heard, despite being rather unforgiving of less than perfect recordings.

@Argonaut's suggestion is a good one. I have Andy's modified Denon DL 103 (his NC103) and really like it. Cost was $550. It is definitely transparent and revealing but you might find it a little bright but it is hard to have one without the other. I also tried his modified Ortofon MC 10 or MC 20 cartridge. Cost of that is $100 more. It wasn't as dynamic or holographic but it was warmer and smoother. I think Andy actually prefers his MC10 but the DL 103 was better for me. Also, the MC10 has a lower output voltage so your phono stage needs to be up for that and Andy suggests starting with a 47K load and working down and most phono stages don't support that. I didn't find the NC103 to be as sensitive to the loading. Personally, I doubt you can find a better cartridge than the NC103 at your budget.

But both of those cartridges are moving coil cartridges. If you need a moving magnet cartridge the Audio Technica VM540ML is a good budget choice but you are going to be missing out on a lot of the transparency etc.. Moving up the price scale buying a Nagoaka MP 500 direct from Japan would be a good choice but the stronger yen has pushed that price up to $650ish. https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEONAG-MP-500

 

[SoundMann]

Consider picking up a cheap Denon 103 with a broken or missing stylus / cantilever and sending it to Andy Kim who will perform his body mod / boron / micro line upgrade service on it … might come in a little over your $500 but not by much , he might even have a suitable candidate in stock .

https://phonocartridgeretipping.com/services/

No thanks. Too expensive, and I have yet to hear a 103 that meets my requirements. But if Andy can mod this cartridge to sound like a SPU, then I may consider it in the future.

Besides, I would have to build a high mass tonearm to use it (which is in my future plans), plus buy step-up transformers just to hear it adding significantly to the cost.

@Argonaut's suggestion is a good one. I have Andy's modified Denon DL 103 (his NC103) and really like it. Cost was $550. It is definitely transparent and revealing but you might find it a little bright but it is hard to have one without the other.

This is what I am trying to move away from.

I also tried his modified Ortofon MC 10 or MC 20 cartridge. Cost of that is $100 more. It wasn't as dynamic or holographic but it was warmer and smoother.

A little closer, but not in the same ballpark.

If you need a moving magnet cartridge the Audio Technica VM540ML is a good budget choice but you are going to be missing out on a lot of the transparency etc..

This one is not only overly bright, but a serious step down from my Signet, which sounds nearly identical overall to my old Kiseki.

The 750SH is a lot closer, but the OC9 is the closest in their current lineup.

Moving up the price scale buying a Nagoaka MP 500 direct from Japan would be a good choice but the stronger yen has pushed that price up to $650ish. https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEONAG-MP-500

These cartridges have a rising top end, and the 500 has an overly busy sound I don't care for. I actually prefer the 200/300.

And even if these were what I was looking for, I would still need a heavier tonearm.

 

[mtemur]

When I read your initial post, the OC-9 immediately came to mind, but I noticed you’d already mentioned it by the end. Have you considered the new OC-9 model with the micro ridge stylus?

If you’re happy with Signet, Audio-Technica might be a great option for you, as it’s the parent company.

 

[Argonaut]

When I read your initial post, the OC-9 immediately came to mind, but I noticed you’d already mentioned it by the end. Have you considered the new OC-9 model with the micro ridge stylus?

I think that a Micro Ridge would certainly bring the upper octaves performance to his vinyl that the OP is seeking … However the challenge will revolve around finding a commercially available cartridge that also brings with it the midrange / upper midrange that he wishes to combine whilst also suitable for use with a mid weight tonearm and MM loading ? ( apologies if I have misinterpreted the Brief ) , all for sub $500 …

MC / Micro Ridge re-tip being a much easier project .

 

[mtemur]

I think that a Micro Ridge would certainly bring the upper octaves performance to his vinyl that the OP is seeking … However the challenge will revolve around finding a commercially available cartridge that also brings with it the midrange / upper midrange that he wishes to combine whilst also suitable for use with a mid weight tonearm and MM loading ? ( apologies if I have misinterpreted the Brief ) , all for sub $500 …

MC / Micro Ridge re-tip being a much easier project .

If it’s possible to stretch the budget a little bit maybe a high output version of Benz ACE can tick all the boxes.

 

[SoundMann]

I think that a Micro Ridge would certainly bring the upper octaves performance to his vinyl that the OP is seeking … However the challenge will revolve around finding a commercially available cartridge that also brings with it the midrange / upper midrange that he wishes to combine whilst also suitable for use with a mid weight tonearm and MM loading ? ( apologies if I have misinterpreted the Brief ) , all for sub $500 …

MC / Micro Ridge re-tip being a much easier project .

I am looking for a warmer, smoother and more forgiving cartridge altogether, but also with the right amount of see-thru transparency and high frequency refinement.

Add to it a totally engaging musicality, and you have my perfect cartridge.

I currently have a Grace 707 II by the way.

 

[SoundMann]

If it’s possible to stretch the budget a little bit maybe a high output version of Benz ACE can tick all the boxes.

$900 is too much. Is the Silver notably inferior?

 

[mtemur]

$900 is too much. Is the Silver notably inferior?

No it’s not but I think ACE or higher can offer the exotic sound you described. IMHO OC-9 is also reasonably capable of offering exotic sound.

 

[SoundMann]

No it’s not but I think ACE or higher can offer the exotic sound you described. IMHO OC-9 is also reasonably capable of offering exotic sound.

Yes. I know what both of these cartridges sound like. No interest in the Silver.

 

[DasguteOhr]

A old kiseki blue,or linn karma sounds close to supex 900 series. fidelity research fr 1 mk 3 is good choice. used you can get for 500$with a time for searching.

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[SoundMann]

A old kiseki blue,or linn karma sounds close to supex 900 series.

The Karma was made by Supex.

 

[SoundMann]

What I would like to do is find someone who could sell me a used low mileage Grado Sonata or Koetsu Black at a reasonable price.

 

[DasguteOhr]

The Karma was made by Supex.

I know the that, a FR 1mk3 ist much better then a koetsu black in my opinion. You need a good 1:30 sut.or 1: 26 lundahl enough to shine the quality

 

[Bso]

SoundMann, I was a big fan of the FR 1 Mk3F and owned several. I never liked the SignetTK7E, the Denon 103 or the SUPEX. The Koetsu Black and the Dynavector Karat were very good but out of my price range.

Today, in your price bracket, I'm running an AT33PTG/II with good results.

(NB: As several may have opined, the problem with these vintage cartridges is that the suspensions/damping scheme may have dried out. No 'retipper' I know of replaces these but there might be some., because damper systems are the trade secrets of each designer. That is why the best manufacturers IMHO swap your cartridge for a new one.)

 

[maxson]

I have a TK7e and like it as well as the TK7lc, which is slightly more refined. My favorite MM tho is a Shelter 201 body with SAS stylus--possible for $500 if you can find the Shelter used.

 

[SoundMann]

Today, in your price bracket, I'm running an AT33PTG/II with good results.

I have always been a bit underwhelmed by this cartridge, but I will take another look.

(NB: As several may have opined, the problem with these vintage cartridges is that the suspensions/damping scheme may have dried out. No 'retipper' I know of replaces these but there might be some., because damper systems are the trade secrets of each designer. That is why the best manufacturers IMHO swap your cartridge for a new one.)

There is a wonderful product called Rubber Renew that has been successful in rescuing many of them.

 

[SoundMann]

I have a TK7e and like it as well as the TK7lc, which is slightly more refined.

I find it to be brighter as well. But I have always wondered if there is a stylus profile that gives us only positive improvements with this cartridge.

My favorite MM tho is a Shelter 201 body with SAS stylus--possible for $500 if you can find the Shelter used.

I am a fan of this old Excel body that even bore the name Supex. I can still buy these new for as little as $130 new from Japan. The Shelter iteration may be the best yet.

Do you not like it with the stock stylus? What improvements does the SAS bring, and what are the negatives?

 

[Bso]

There is a wonderful product called Rubber Renew that has been successful in rescuing many of them.

I think I used this to renew some rubber TT belts. How do you use this on dampers, other than carefully?