Moving from Spendor,ATC,Graham....to??

[davenrk]

Good morning,

I'm asking your kind advise. My name's David, and I live in Italy, Tuscany.

My favorite music is progressive rock, specially modern progressive.

I try to summarise my latest gears and experiences:

1) After various speakers more or less 11 years I bought a pair of Spendor SP100R2, with preamp YBA 1, power amps YBA Signature Mono. I was listening in a dedicated 20mq room.

The Spendors "opened my ears" to another level of reproduction: for the first time I managed to understand what tonal and timbral accuracy really means. Very analytical, detailed, realistic, powerful, "big" sound, deep bass section. Sometimes, due to the room's (not too big) size they overloaded the room and depending from the recording, the bass was a little uncontrolled. It was not a real problem, but they surely could benefit from a larger room.

2) After 1 year I had the occasion to put my hands on a very nice pair of ATC 50 Anniversary Edition Actives. Beautifully stunning. They matched perfectly with my room. The SP100R2 were unbeatable in tonal and timbral accuracy, but the ATC produced an incredibly faster sound, it was a FLUID sound, smooth, iper-controlled, and with un unattanaible sense of rhythm (actives are unbeatable in this aspect). With ATC actives I was using a YBA cd player and YBA preamp 1 alpha, very old one and musical.

3) Later I moved to Tuscany , so changed my house, and I had the possibility to have a new dedicated room of 25 mq, which increased remarkably the sound quality in general. I only listened to music without any change in my system for many years.

4) Two yeas ago, for several reasons, I had to change home again, my system remained stopped and packed for 1 year and a half because I wasn't able to find a suitable new home, so I decided to sell my ATC's.
Lastly I found a new home but without a dedicated room anymore unfortunately, now I have a living room of 25/27 mq.

5) I bought Swiss Physics preamp and amp 5 & 6A, discussed here:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/swiss-physics-arrived-old-top-suisse-amp.28964/

(The power amp 6A is a dual mono pure class A,160 watt 8 ohm and 275 watt 4 ohm)

I maintained the YBA cd player classic series, and added a pair of Graham Ls5/9.

6) Everything has changed so it's difficult to make serious comparision before-after but:
a) the Grahams 5/9 deliver (incredibly) an even more detailed sound than ATCs, I don't know if also the Swiss preamp/amp have some credit, I don't know if the previous YBA preamp was a bottleneck, now I heard more details than before with the ATC in mostly every recording.
b) the Grahams 5/9 has some kind of magical medium frequencies, voices are the best I've heard. They only have a medium more forward or in emphasis , but this is a declared BBC 5/9 charateristic.
c) the Grahams 5/9 manage to make a deep scan into the different sound layers, you can isolate surgically even the the most hidden sub-track with ease.
d) they are iper fast, controlled , produce a likely bass section, for the dimentions of the speaker, and have very good power handling too despite the dimentions.
e) they don't have the sense of rhythm the ATC actives were capable of.

BUT, once you have known the weight and the scale of a big speaker, the smaller monitors seem like "toys". I'm exaggerating, obviously, but it's physics. The meaning is that I miss the impact, the presence, the physicality of a bigger speaker. I'm not speaking about specifically of the bass frequencies, but of the sound as a global thing.
For this reason I'm thinking about upgrading the Grahams Ls5/9 to something bigger, not extremely bigger, the maximum I could insert would be something like a spendor sp100, not more, or a medium tower.

Summing up the basic features they would have to guarantee:
1) After 3 english monitor-type speakers I don't like that all the cds sound in the same way, I don't like for example always a sound like honey, with every cd. The sound for me should change, maybe sometimes more dry, sometimes more sweet, depending from how the recording has been done. Sometimes the sound could be fatiguing, too, other times non-fatiguing, depends from the recording.
2) Tone and timbral accuracy is a must
3) I like very detailed sound, with high-frequencies reproduction open,extended, but also natural I would say
4) I like to discover all the little nuances, details, so a lot of resolution
5) Bass section has to be very fast, not extremely extended, but controlled and fast
6) Ability to represent a realistic imaging, in all the 3 dimentions
7) A good sense of rhythm, more than the Grahams possibly
8) To give a term of comparison, I listened once to Wilson Audio Sophia , they were extremely "oleographic" but they seemed "artificial" to me.

I have a total budget of 6.000 euro, in the USED market only. I know it's not easy and the risk to get worse under certain parameters is alive...
I want to keep the Swiss preamp and amps, so actives are not considered in this moment.

I could find some used Grahams 5/8 but these are two ways speakers like the 5/9, I don't think there should be a significant improvement, I prefer a 3 ways or more speakers.

I also consider some older or "vintage" speakers but only if there are spare parts to repair them in case of need, and if it's easy to resell them.

Do you have some ideas to suggest me?

thanks in advance
David

 

[VerdantAudio]

I would consider looking for a pair of used Wilson Benesch Vectors. They are a small floor-standing speaker that will deliver an elevated level of clarity and detail while also remaining relatively neutral. These might be above your budget but that would be a speaker I would consider stretching for. They should be around 15K Euros new, but this was after a price increase earlier this year and they have since been discontinued so 6K Euros ought to be about where a used pair should sell.

 

[Hear Here]

Good morning,

I'm asking your kind advise. My name's David, and I live in Italy, Tuscany.

My favorite music is progressive rock, specially modern progressive.

I try to summarise my latest gears and experiences:

1) After various speakers more or less 11 years I bought a pair of Spendor SP100R2, with preamp YBA 1, power amps YBA Signature Mono. I was listening in a dedicated 20mq room.

The Spendors "opened my ears" to another level of reproduction: for the first time I managed to understand what tonal and timbral accuracy really means. Very analytical, detailed, realistic, powerful, "big" sound, deep bass section. Sometimes, due to the room's (not too big) size they overloaded the room and depending from the recording, the bass was a little uncontrolled. It was not a real problem, but they surely could benefit from a larger room.

2) After 1 year I had the occasion to put my hands on a very nice pair of ATC 50 Anniversary Edition Actives. Beautifully stunning. They matched perfectly with my room. The SP100R2 were unbeatable in tonal and timbral accuracy, but the ATC produced an incredibly faster sound, it was a FLUID sound, smooth, iper-controlled, and with un unattanaible sense of rhythm (actives are unbeatable in this aspect). With ATC actives I was using a YBA cd player and YBA preamp 1 alpha, very old one and musical.

3) Later I moved to Tuscany , so changed my house, and I had the possibility to have a new dedicated room of 25 mq, which increased remarkably the sound quality in general. I only listened to music without any change in my system for many years.

4) Two yeas ago, for several reasons, I had to change home again, my system remained stopped and packed for 1 year and a half because I wasn't able to find a suitable new home, so I decided to sell my ATC's.
Lastly I found a new home but without a dedicated room anymore unfortunately, now I have a living room of 25/27 mq.

5) I bought Swiss Physics preamp and amp 5 & 6A, discussed here:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/swiss-physics-arrived-old-top-suisse-amp.28964/

(The power amp 6A is a dual mono pure class A,160 watt 8 ohm and 275 watt 4 ohm)

I maintained the YBA cd player classic series, and added a pair of Graham Ls5/9.

6) Everything has changed so it's difficult to make serious comparision before-after but:
a) the Grahams 5/9 deliver (incredibly) an even more detailed sound than ATCs, I don't know if also the Swiss preamp/amp have some credit, I don't know if the previous YBA preamp was a bottleneck, now I heard more details than before with the ATC in mostly every recording.
b) the Grahams 5/9 has some kind of magical medium frequencies, voices are the best I've heard. They only have a medium more forward or in emphasis , but this is a declared BBC 5/9 charateristic.
c) the Grahams 5/9 manage to make a deep scan into the different sound layers, you can isolate surgically even the the most hidden sub-track with ease.
d) they are iper fast, controlled , produce a likely bass section, for the dimentions of the speaker, and have very good power handling too despite the dimentions.
e) they don't have the sense of rhythm the ATC actives were capable of.

BUT, once you have known the weight and the scale of a big speaker, the smaller monitors seem like "toys". I'm exaggerating, obviously, but it's physics. The meaning is that I miss the impact, the presence, the physicality of a bigger speaker. I'm not speaking about specifically of the bass frequencies, but of the sound as a global thing.
For this reason I'm thinking about upgrading the Grahams Ls5/9 to something bigger, not extremely bigger, the maximum I could insert would be something like a spendor sp100, not more, or a medium tower.

Summing up the basic features they would have to guarantee:
1) After 3 english monitor-type speakers I don't like that all the cds sound in the same way, I don't like for example always a sound like honey, with every cd. The sound for me should change, maybe sometimes more dry, sometimes more sweet, depending from how the recording has been done. Sometimes the sound could be fatiguing, too, other times non-fatiguing, depends from the recording.
2) Tone and timbral accuracy is a must
3) I like very detailed sound, with high-frequencies reproduction open,extended, but also natural I would say
4) I like to discover all the little nuances, details, so a lot of resolution
5) Bass section has to be very fast, not extremely extended, but controlled and fast
6) Ability to represent a realistic imaging, in all the 3 dimentions
7) A good sense of rhythm, more than the Grahams possibly
8) To give a term of comparison, I listened once to Wilson Audio Sophia , they were extremely "oleographic" but they seemed "artificial" to me.

I have a total budget of 6.000 euro, in the USED market only. I know it's not easy and the risk to get worse under certain parameters is alive...
I want to keep the Swiss preamp and amps, so actives are not considered in this moment.

I could find some used Grahams 5/8 but these are two ways speakers like the 5/9, I don't think there should be a significant improvement, I prefer a 3 ways or more speakers.

I also consider some older or "vintage" speakers but only if there are spare parts to repair them in case of need, and if it's easy to resell them.

Do you have some ideas to suggest me?

thanks in advance
David

My only experience with ATCs was with Active 50s bought from ATC in about 2000. Not the fancy enclosures like yours but the stand-mount version in walnut. I had previously used big KEF Reference 107s, but I didn't like the ATCs. They were far too much "in yer face" - I wanted to push them 20 ft further away. Sound was good but claustrophobic in presentation.

I switched to something completely different - Avantgarde Unos, mainly on the fantastic Stereophile review and their choice of the Uno as Speaker of the Year. I bought them new in 2002 and kept them till a couple of years ago when I upgraded to Duos (2006 vintage) and last year to new Duo XDs. The speed and clarity from these horn systems is great and imaging second to none when set up carefully. For your budget I'm sure you could find a good pair of Duos in Italy or not too far away, but make sure they are not early ones with 7" bass drivers or 10" ones with foam surrounds. Just an idea.

 

[davenrk]

I would consider looking for a pair of used Wilson Benesch Vectors. They are a small floor-standing speaker that will deliver an elevated level of clarity and detail while also remaining relatively neutral. These might be above your budget but that would be a speaker I would consider stretching for. They should be around 15K Euros new, but this was after a price increase earlier this year and they have since been discontinued so 6K Euros ought to be about where a used pair should sell.

Thanks for helping me. How do you consider the Vector's compared to older model such as Curve?
O how are they compared to Discovery?

 

[davenrk]

I switched to something completely different - Avantgarde Unos, mainly on the fantastic Stereophile review and their choice of the Uno as Speaker of the Year. I bought them new in 2002 and kept them till a couple of years ago when I upgraded to Duos (2006 vintage) and last year to new Duo XDs. The speed and clarity from these horn systems is great and imaging second to none when set up carefully. For your budget I'm sure you could find a good pair of Duos in Italy or not too far away, but make sure they are not early ones with 7" bass drivers or 10" ones with foam surrounds. Just an idea.

I have listened to Avantgarde Duos some years ago, but they are high efficiency speakers, and they would not match very well with my 160W class A amp. Thanks anyway.

 

[Hear Here]

I have listened to Avantgarde Duos some years ago, but they are high efficiency speakers, and they would not match very well with my 160W class A amp. Thanks anyway.

The maximum output from your amp shouldn't preclude horns as a speaker type. I'm using a 200 watt amp to power my 107 dB speakers. An earlier amp I used was a 6 watts SET and both produce wonderful sounds. If your amp has an adjustable gain setting, so much the better, but otherwise it just means you use less rotation of the volume control. Give it a try! Peter

 

[VerdantAudio]

Thanks for helping me. How do you consider the Vector's compared to older model such as Curve?
O how are they compared to Discovery?

I am unfamiliar with The Curve. The Vectors go deeper than the Discovery II in terms of frequency response and my hunch is, can be had close to your budget. The Discovery II midrange is similar while implements a dual driver, isobaric bass system. This will be extremely precise but rolls off quickly and will lack the feel of bass you get with other speakers.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Good morning,

I'm asking your kind advise. My name's David, and I live in Italy, Tuscany.

My favorite music is progressive rock, specially modern progressive.

I try to summarise my latest gears and experiences:

1) After various speakers more or less 11 years I bought a pair of Spendor SP100R2, with preamp YBA 1, power amps YBA Signature Mono. I was listening in a dedicated 20mq room.

The Spendors "opened my ears" to another level of reproduction: for the first time I managed to understand what tonal and timbral accuracy really means. Very analytical, detailed, realistic, powerful, "big" sound, deep bass section. Sometimes, due to the room's (not too big) size they overloaded the room and depending from the recording, the bass was a little uncontrolled. It was not a real problem, but they surely could benefit from a larger room.

2) After 1 year I had the occasion to put my hands on a very nice pair of ATC 50 Anniversary Edition Actives. Beautifully stunning. They matched perfectly with my room. The SP100R2 were unbeatable in tonal and timbral accuracy, but the ATC produced an incredibly faster sound, it was a FLUID sound, smooth, iper-controlled, and with un unattanaible sense of rhythm (actives are unbeatable in this aspect). With ATC actives I was using a YBA cd player and YBA preamp 1 alpha, very old one and musical.

3) Later I moved to Tuscany , so changed my house, and I had the possibility to have a new dedicated room of 25 mq, which increased remarkably the sound quality in general. I only listened to music without any change in my system for many years.

4) Two yeas ago, for several reasons, I had to change home again, my system remained stopped and packed for 1 year and a half because I wasn't able to find a suitable new home, so I decided to sell my ATC's.
Lastly I found a new home but without a dedicated room anymore unfortunately, now I have a living room of 25/27 mq.

5) I bought Swiss Physics preamp and amp 5 & 6A, discussed here:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/swiss-physics-arrived-old-top-suisse-amp.28964/

(The power amp 6A is a dual mono pure class A,160 watt 8 ohm and 275 watt 4 ohm)

I maintained the YBA cd player classic series, and added a pair of Graham Ls5/9.

6) Everything has changed so it's difficult to make serious comparision before-after but:
a) the Grahams 5/9 deliver (incredibly) an even more detailed sound than ATCs, I don't know if also the Swiss preamp/amp have some credit, I don't know if the previous YBA preamp was a bottleneck, now I heard more details than before with the ATC in mostly every recording.
b) the Grahams 5/9 has some kind of magical medium frequencies, voices are the best I've heard. They only have a medium more forward or in emphasis , but this is a declared BBC 5/9 charateristic.
c) the Grahams 5/9 manage to make a deep scan into the different sound layers, you can isolate surgically even the the most hidden sub-track with ease.
d) they are iper fast, controlled , produce a likely bass section, for the dimentions of the speaker, and have very good power handling too despite the dimentions.
e) they don't have the sense of rhythm the ATC actives were capable of.

BUT, once you have known the weight and the scale of a big speaker, the smaller monitors seem like "toys". I'm exaggerating, obviously, but it's physics. The meaning is that I miss the impact, the presence, the physicality of a bigger speaker. I'm not speaking about specifically of the bass frequencies, but of the sound as a global thing.
For this reason I'm thinking about upgrading the Grahams Ls5/9 to something bigger, not extremely bigger, the maximum I could insert would be something like a spendor sp100, not more, or a medium tower.

Summing up the basic features they would have to guarantee:
1) After 3 english monitor-type speakers I don't like that all the cds sound in the same way, I don't like for example always a sound like honey, with every cd. The sound for me should change, maybe sometimes more dry, sometimes more sweet, depending from how the recording has been done. Sometimes the sound could be fatiguing, too, other times non-fatiguing, depends from the recording.
2) Tone and timbral accuracy is a must
3) I like very detailed sound, with high-frequencies reproduction open,extended, but also natural I would say
4) I like to discover all the little nuances, details, so a lot of resolution
5) Bass section has to be very fast, not extremely extended, but controlled and fast
6) Ability to represent a realistic imaging, in all the 3 dimentions
7) A good sense of rhythm, more than the Grahams possibly
8) To give a term of comparison, I listened once to Wilson Audio Sophia , they were extremely "oleographic" but they seemed "artificial" to me.

I have a total budget of 6.000 euro, in the USED market only. I know it's not easy and the risk to get worse under certain parameters is alive...
I want to keep the Swiss preamp and amps, so actives are not considered in this moment.

I could find some used Grahams 5/8 but these are two ways speakers like the 5/9, I don't think there should be a significant improvement, I prefer a 3 ways or more speakers.

I also consider some older or "vintage" speakers but only if there are spare parts to repair them in case of need, and if it's easy to resell them.

Do you have some ideas to suggest me?

thanks in advance
David

thats a beautiful part of the world were you live David.have you considered magnapan speakers.they do a lot of what you like.

 

[Vinyl Valet]

I've owned both Avantgarde Duos driven with some high quality 45 or 300B SETs as well as various active ATC speakers. My current revision ATC SCM100ASLT speakers are far superior to any Avantgarde speaker I've heard. BTW, the current Avantgarde line is grossly overpriced, at least in the US.

I'm guessing your ATC speakers were an older revision. Since you liked them for the most part, you should audition a current revision active 50 or 100. I don't find mine tonally lacking in any respect. My priorities for a speaker are effortless dynamics, timbal purity and presence.

I also just got a pair of Fyne F703 speakers (ex-Tannoy engineers and management) for another room. They are still breaking in but I think this is the first speaker, with the right amplification (most likely tube) that may compete favorably with the ATCs for the things that important to me musically. You should try to audition a pair of Fyne F1 or 700 series speakers.

Best of luck with your search.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I've owned both Avantgarde Duos driven with some high quality 45 or 300B SETs as well as various active ATC speakers. My current revision ATC SCM100ASLT speakers are far superior to any Avantgarde speaker I've heard. BTW, the current Avantgarde line is grossly overpriced, at least in the US.

I'm guessing your ATC speakers were an older revision. Since you liked them for the most part, you should audition a current revision active 50 or 100. I don't find mine tonally lacking in any respect. My priorities for a speaker are effortless dynamics, timbal purity and presence.

I also just got a pair of Fyne F703 speakers (ex-Tannoy engineers and management) for another room. They are still breaking in but I think this is the first speaker, with the right amplification (most likely tube) that may compete favorably with the ATCs for the things that important to me musically. You should try to audition a pair of Fyne F1 or 700 series speakers.

Best of luck with your search.

Atc speakers are excellent.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Living Voice Ibx r 3 are musically detailed and very beautiful timbres. no difficult load easy to drive. the bass, depending on the setup, down to 34-36hz two deep mid-range speakers.

Living Voice Auditorium IBX-R3 - Sonderfurnier Santos Rosewood (5527764495) | Second-hand device | Standing Speaker | Offer on audio-markt.de

Offered is „Auditorium IBX-R3 - Sonderfurnier Santos Rosewood“ by Living Voice as second-hand device from the category „Standing Speaker“ on audio-markt.de - the online market place for high-end. The advert with the number 5527764495 ends on 27.12.2021 at 14:13 o'clock.

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Sound exsample

 

[bonzo75]

Good morning,

I'm asking your kind advise. My name's David, and I live in Italy, Tuscany.

My favorite music is progressive rock, specially modern progressive.

I try to summarise my latest gears and experiences:

1) After various speakers more or less 11 years I bought a pair of Spendor SP100R2, with preamp YBA 1, power amps YBA Signature Mono. I was listening in a dedicated 20mq room.

The Spendors "opened my ears" to another level of reproduction: for the first time I managed to understand what tonal and timbral accuracy really means. Very analytical, detailed, realistic, powerful, "big" sound, deep bass section. Sometimes, due to the room's (not too big) size they overloaded the room and depending from the recording, the bass was a little uncontrolled. It was not a real problem, but they surely could benefit from a larger room.

2) After 1 year I had the occasion to put my hands on a very nice pair of ATC 50 Anniversary Edition Actives. Beautifully stunning. They matched perfectly with my room. The SP100R2 were unbeatable in tonal and timbral accuracy, but the ATC produced an incredibly faster sound, it was a FLUID sound, smooth, iper-controlled, and with un unattanaible sense of rhythm (actives are unbeatable in this aspect). With ATC actives I was using a YBA cd player and YBA preamp 1 alpha, very old one and musical.

3) Later I moved to Tuscany , so changed my house, and I had the possibility to have a new dedicated room of 25 mq, which increased remarkably the sound quality in general. I only listened to music without any change in my system for many years.

4) Two yeas ago, for several reasons, I had to change home again, my system remained stopped and packed for 1 year and a half because I wasn't able to find a suitable new home, so I decided to sell my ATC's.
Lastly I found a new home but without a dedicated room anymore unfortunately, now I have a living room of 25/27 mq.

5) I bought Swiss Physics preamp and amp 5 & 6A, discussed here:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/swiss-physics-arrived-old-top-suisse-amp.28964/

(The power amp 6A is a dual mono pure class A,160 watt 8 ohm and 275 watt 4 ohm)

I maintained the YBA cd player classic series, and added a pair of Graham Ls5/9.

6) Everything has changed so it's difficult to make serious comparision before-after but:
a) the Grahams 5/9 deliver (incredibly) an even more detailed sound than ATCs, I don't know if also the Swiss preamp/amp have some credit, I don't know if the previous YBA preamp was a bottleneck, now I heard more details than before with the ATC in mostly every recording.
b) the Grahams 5/9 has some kind of magical medium frequencies, voices are the best I've heard. They only have a medium more forward or in emphasis , but this is a declared BBC 5/9 charateristic.
c) the Grahams 5/9 manage to make a deep scan into the different sound layers, you can isolate surgically even the the most hidden sub-track with ease.
d) they are iper fast, controlled , produce a likely bass section, for the dimentions of the speaker, and have very good power handling too despite the dimentions.
e) they don't have the sense of rhythm the ATC actives were capable of.

BUT, once you have known the weight and the scale of a big speaker, the smaller monitors seem like "toys". I'm exaggerating, obviously, but it's physics. The meaning is that I miss the impact, the presence, the physicality of a bigger speaker. I'm not speaking about specifically of the bass frequencies, but of the sound as a global thing.
For this reason I'm thinking about upgrading the Grahams Ls5/9 to something bigger, not extremely bigger, the maximum I could insert would be something like a spendor sp100, not more, or a medium tower.

Summing up the basic features they would have to guarantee:
1) After 3 english monitor-type speakers I don't like that all the cds sound in the same way, I don't like for example always a sound like honey, with every cd. The sound for me should change, maybe sometimes more dry, sometimes more sweet, depending from how the recording has been done. Sometimes the sound could be fatiguing, too, other times non-fatiguing, depends from the recording.
2) Tone and timbral accuracy is a must
3) I like very detailed sound, with high-frequencies reproduction open,extended, but also natural I would say
4) I like to discover all the little nuances, details, so a lot of resolution
5) Bass section has to be very fast, not extremely extended, but controlled and fast
6) Ability to represent a realistic imaging, in all the 3 dimentions
7) A good sense of rhythm, more than the Grahams possibly
8) To give a term of comparison, I listened once to Wilson Audio Sophia , they were extremely "oleographic" but they seemed "artificial" to me.

I have a total budget of 6.000 euro, in the USED market only. I know it's not easy and the risk to get worse under certain parameters is alive...
I want to keep the Swiss preamp and amps, so actives are not considered in this moment.

I could find some used Grahams 5/8 but these are two ways speakers like the 5/9, I don't think there should be a significant improvement, I prefer a 3 ways or more speakers.

I also consider some older or "vintage" speakers but only if there are spare parts to repair them in case of need, and if it's easy to resell them.

Do you have some ideas to suggest me?

thanks in advance
David

Vintage Tannoy Gold 15 inch or HPD 315a 12 inch.

 

[Argonaut]

Vintage Tannoy Gold 15 inch or HPD 315a 12 inch.

Whilst Not Tannoy factory cabinets, they appear well made close approximations , modern crossovers.

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[bonzo75]

Whilst Not Tannoy factory cabinets, they appear well made close approximations , modern crossovers.

The MG15 I heard were similar lockwood but with crossovers from the Paul guy who did Tom's. These are from Troel Gravesen. The OP could try these, and if required get Paul's and still be in budget

 

[mullard88]

Give the Endeavor E-3 MkII a chance if you have a Von Schwiekert dealer in your area.