Munich high-end show 2016: Who here is going?

[morricab]

Will be there too

If you don't spend a minimum of 2 hours in the Western Electric/Silbatone room on the 1st floor, I am not talking to you again.

To Sujay - Et tu, brute

Wearing my Positive Feedback reviewers "hat".
Last year i thought the Silbatone room was No. 2 overall behind the Living Voice/Kondo room. Also extremely good was Aries Cerat in 2014.

I will be there from the 5th to the end!

 

[bonzo75]

Wearing my Positive Feedback reviewers "hat".
Last year i thought the Silbatone room was No. 2 overall behind the Living Voice/Kondo room. Also extremely good was Aries Cerat in 2014.

I will be there from the 5th to the end!

Good to hear you are a PF reviewer. Any links to reviews?

The WE in 2014 was much better than 2015, though I loved 2015 as well. You should also listen to the 16A in Leipzig, which is similar to the 16A you heard at Acousticplan but with GIP drivers instead of LM, making it way more magical. They bring in a different WE each year

I am now a big apogee lover after listening to Henk's Grands and his full ranges which are with a client. But modded apogees only, not so much into originals.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Making my first trip to Munich, very much looking fwds to this, esp the Sound Galleries 512dsd demo.
Are there any issues buying tickets on the day/door?

 

[morricab]

Good to hear you are a PF reviewer. Any links to reviews?

The WE in 2014 was much better than 2015, though I loved 2015 as well. You should also listen to the 16A in Leipzig, which is similar to the 16A you heard at Acousticplan but with GIP drivers instead of LM, making it way more magical. They bring in a different WE each year

I am now a big apogee lover after listening to Henk's Grands and his full ranges which are with a client. But modded apogees only, not so much into originals.

I haven't got to hear Henk's Grands but I did hear his Full Ranges + 2xVelodyne DD18 subs. He was using the STAX and Plinius amps at that time but no Phasure DAC, which my sources say is very good but I haven't heard it yet. As a life-long planar lover and owner (started with Audiostatic, then Infinity IRS Beta, Apogees, STAX (not the headphones) and finally 3 pairs of Acoustats) with lots of Apogee owners as friends I have to say that I was NOT blown away by Henk's set up at that time. IMO, it was far to analytical and "synthetic" sounding...quite thin and aggressive to be honest. I heard much better set ups in Holland with original and rebuilt Scintillas driven by some of the few amps that can drive that speaker that actuallly sound good (Classe DR3 VHCs and Sphinx Project 16 hybrid).

Henk's new set up might sound very different than the one I heard but a source in Holland I know and trust (this man great ears) says that it still sounds quite analytical to him. However, if you loved it I can for sure understand why. The imaging and soundstaging of a Grand are probably the most realistic that you can get, with perhaps the exception of a huge pair of Soundlab elelctrostats.

I have heard an Apogee Grand in Germany sound awesome...but with all tubes in the chain except for the active Apogee crossover and the built-in Krell subwoofer amps. That system was bad ass with all NAT amplification in the chain (two complete different sets of gear too...one was all older 211 based SETs and the Utopia preamp and the new configuration is 4 x NAT Transmitters with a NAT Symmetrical preamp (krell amps now on tweeters and subs).

I myself went over to horns after hearing Odeon horn speakers. They also fit better my living situation than the 8 foot tall (2.4 meters) Acoustats that were my previous favorites. For ultimate transparency I have to give the nod to the planars (especially the Acoustats, STAX and Audiostatics...all of which are more transparent and "alive"at low volume than Apogees) but the horns do dynamic like nobodies business and they are quite uncolored.

I have heard now the LM version again with both the LM219 and a 300B amp from AcousticPlan at the AcousticPlan listening room in Germany...still really good stuff but it doesn't image and soundstage as well as my Odeons and especially not as good as good planars, is a bit more colored but makes big, meaty, palpable and dynamic as hell sound. Not sure I could live with the limitations but I could try .

I was a reviewer actively about 10 years ago and there are several reviews on Positive Feedback (one on the Apogee Caliper Signature, one on the Piega C2 ltd, one on the KR Audio Kronzilla DM monos, one on AcousticPlan Santor and Sarod amp and preamp, a series of reviews on preamps where I started pretty cheap and ended up with the likes of the Vacuumstate RTP-3D and Kondo KSL-M7). I am particularly proud of the KR review and the preamp reviews.

I can understand why you were blown away by Apogees...nearly everyone is the first time they hear them...I was and still find them superior to most else what's out there...at least non-horn. My first electrostatic experience was like Holy ****! There is a very good reason that throught the 80s and 90s a lot of reviewers were using Apogees...they show gear differences effortlessly and this makes reviewing a treat and altogether easier to do.

I will be at the show all four days and I will be at this BMW Welt thing so we should catch up.

 

[EuroDriver]

Making my first trip to Munich, very much looking fwds to this, esp the Sound Galleries 512dsd demo.
Are there any issues buying tickets on the day/door?

When the show opens it's doors in the morning, there can be a bit of a line at the ticket desk

 

[Rhapsody]

Here is our Kondo/Kaiser room at Munich in "set up mode"

 

[analog brother]

that system should sound beautiful!!!

 

[Rhapsody]

that system should sound beautiful!!!

You know it REALLY does sound Wonderbar, but I was in 50 other rooms today and for the most part most rooms that I entered sounded pretty good to me. Some of the rooms are lines that I represent, but many more that I don't represent and personally I was very impressed with the sound of most rooms. The Munich show for me personally is like all of the US shows put together and them X that by some number3, 4 or 5....it's quite the experience.

 

[bonzo75]

I haven't got to hear Henk's Grands but I did hear his Full Ranges + 2xVelodyne DD18 subs. He was using the STAX and Plinius amps at that time but no Phasure DAC, which my sources say is very good but I haven't heard it yet. As a life-long planar lover and owner (started with Audiostatic, then Infinity IRS Beta, Apogees, STAX (not the headphones) and finally 3 pairs of Acoustats) with lots of Apogee owners as friends I have to say that I was NOT blown away by Henk's set up at that time. IMO, it was far to analytical and "synthetic" sounding...quite thin and aggressive to be honest. I heard much better set ups in Holland with original and rebuilt Scintillas driven by some of the few amps that can drive that speaker that actuallly sound good (Classe DR3 VHCs and Sphinx Project 16 hybrid).

Henk's new set up might sound very different than the one I heard but a source in Holland I know and trust (this man great ears) says that it still sounds quite analytical to him. However, if you loved it I can for sure understand why. The imaging and soundstaging of a Grand are probably the most realistic that you can get, with perhaps the exception of a huge pair of Soundlab elelctrostats.

I have heard an Apogee Grand in Germany sound awesome...but with all tubes in the chain except for the active Apogee crossover and the built-in Krell subwoofer amps. That system was bad ass with all NAT amplification in the chain (two complete different sets of gear too...one was all older 211 based SETs and the Utopia preamp and the new configuration is 4 x NAT Transmitters with a NAT Symmetrical preamp (krell amps now on tweeters and subs).

I myself went over to horns after hearing Odeon horn speakers. They also fit better my living situation than the 8 foot tall (2.4 meters) Acoustats that were my previous favorites. For ultimate transparency I have to give the nod to the planars (especially the Acoustats, STAX and Audiostatics...all of which are more transparent and "alive"at low volume than Apogees) but the horns do dynamic like nobodies business and they are quite uncolored.

I have heard now the LM version again with both the LM219 and a 300B amp from AcousticPlan at the AcousticPlan listening room in Germany...still really good stuff but it doesn't image and soundstage as well as my Odeons and especially not as good as good planars, is a bit more colored but makes big, meaty, palpable and dynamic as hell sound. Not sure I could live with the limitations but I could try .

I was a reviewer actively about 10 years ago and there are several reviews on Positive Feedback (one on the Apogee Caliper Signature, one on the Piega C2 ltd, one on the KR Audio Kronzilla DM monos, one on AcousticPlan Santor and Sarod amp and preamp, a series of reviews on preamps where I started pretty cheap and ended up with the likes of the Vacuumstate RTP-3D and Kondo KSL-M7). I am particularly proud of the KR review and the preamp reviews.

I can understand why you were blown away by Apogees...nearly everyone is the first time they hear them...I was and still find them superior to most else what's out there...at least non-horn. My first electrostatic experience was like Holy ****! There is a very good reason that throught the 80s and 90s a lot of reviewers were using Apogees...they show gear differences effortlessly and this makes reviewing a treat and altogether easier to do.

I will be at the show all four days and I will be at this BMW Welt thing so we should catch up.

I heard Henk's FRs but not in his system, but with the Project Sphinx 16 amp you mentioned at his client's.

I have ben in touch with Florian - would love to listen to it one day.

The 16A with LM drivers just won't sound anywhere as good as the one with GIP drivers. The drivers count more than the horn in this case.

The ideal system will be a big room with Apogees firing down the room and a 16A on one of the long walls . Switch between the two.

I am there Saturday and Sunday. Will spend more time in WESilbatone room and with TTs - I am getting more OCDed on Analaog

 

[ddk]

Seems like we had a similar journey Morricab... From planars to horns and never going back ! I'm with you on Soundlabs too, loved the A1+B1. Regarding the Grands you mentioned, were they bi or tri amped? If bi-amped then there's a Krell tweeter amp too, that was the standard configuration they were sold.

david

I haven't got to hear Henk's Grands but I did hear his Full Ranges + 2xVelodyne DD18 subs. He was using the STAX and Plinius amps at that time but no Phasure DAC, which my sources say is very good but I haven't heard it yet. As a life-long planar lover and owner (started with Audiostatic, then Infinity IRS Beta, Apogees, STAX (not the headphones) and finally 3 pairs of Acoustats) with lots of Apogee owners as friends I have to say that I was NOT blown away by Henk's set up at that time. IMO, it was far to analytical and "synthetic" sounding...quite thin and aggressive to be honest. I heard much better set ups in Holland with original and rebuilt Scintillas driven by some of the few amps that can drive that speaker that actuallly sound good (Classe DR3 VHCs and Sphinx Project 16 hybrid).

Henk's new set up might sound very different than the one I heard but a source in Holland I know and trust (this man great ears) says that it still sounds quite analytical to him. However, if you loved it I can for sure understand why. The imaging and soundstaging of a Grand are probably the most realistic that you can get, with perhaps the exception of a huge pair of Soundlab elelctrostats.

I have heard an Apogee Grand in Germany sound awesome...but with all tubes in the chain except for the active Apogee crossover and the built-in Krell subwoofer amps. That system was bad ass with all NAT amplification in the chain (two complete different sets of gear too...one was all older 211 based SETs and the Utopia preamp and the new configuration is 4 x NAT Transmitters with a NAT Symmetrical preamp (krell amps now on tweeters and subs).

I myself went over to horns after hearing Odeon horn speakers. They also fit better my living situation than the 8 foot tall (2.4 meters) Acoustats that were my previous favorites. For ultimate transparency I have to give the nod to the planars (especially the Acoustats, STAX and Audiostatics...all of which are more transparent and "alive"at low volume than Apogees) but the horns do dynamic like nobodies business and they are quite uncolored.

I have heard now the LM version again with both the LM219 and a 300B amp from AcousticPlan at the AcousticPlan listening room in Germany...still really good stuff but it doesn't image and soundstage as well as my Odeons and especially not as good as good planars, is a bit more colored but makes big, meaty, palpable and dynamic as hell sound. Not sure I could live with the limitations but I could try .

I was a reviewer actively about 10 years ago and there are several reviews on Positive Feedback (one on the Apogee Caliper Signature, one on the Piega C2 ltd, one on the KR Audio Kronzilla DM monos, one on AcousticPlan Santor and Sarod amp and preamp, a series of reviews on preamps where I started pretty cheap and ended up with the likes of the Vacuumstate RTP-3D and Kondo KSL-M7). I am particularly proud of the KR review and the preamp reviews.

I can understand why you were blown away by Apogees...nearly everyone is the first time they hear them...I was and still find them superior to most else what's out there...at least non-horn. My first electrostatic experience was like Holy ****! There is a very good reason that throught the 80s and 90s a lot of reviewers were using Apogees...they show gear differences effortlessly and this makes reviewing a treat and altogether easier to do.

I will be at the show all four days and I will be at this BMW Welt thing so we should catch up.

 

[morricab]

Seems like we had a similar journey Morricab... From planars to horns and never going back ! I'm with you on Soundlabs too, loved the A1+B1. Regarding the Grands you mentioned, were they bi or tri amped? If bi-amped then there's a Krell tweeter amp too, that was the standard configuration they were sold.

david

Yes it seems so but you have much bigger and nicer toys than I! Interestingly, I am also using 6C33C based monoblocks (Wall Audio Opus P50) to drive my Odeons. Personally, I am a big fan of late 70s, early 80s Big Japanese DD TTs but those Micros you have are VERY nice sounding decks. That SzT1 is really hard to find I heard. I still think your collection is not complete without a Nakamichi TX1000 centering turntable (saw one for the first time last year at a guy in Frankfurt) and a Kenwood L07 and/or an Exclusive P3. Even if you don't love the sound from these big DD TTs just for a completeness.

How do they compare to the AF1 that you have or the Goldmund Reference? Did you ever try a Voyd three motor turntable? That was the best belt drive TT I have owned but it is a totally different philosophy to the big Micros and the others in your stable.

Prior to the Odeons, I was running big Electrostats (Audiostatic, STAX, Acoustat), ribbons (Apogee) or hybrids (Infinity IRS beta, DIY ribbon hybrid). For a while I went back to conventional speakers for space reasons and ended up hating the sound. I got the horn bug years ago but didn't act on it while I had the big panels as i was quite happy with the sound. Going back there was not an option so I started to look at horns again. My "La Bohemes" are a back loaded bass/mid that crosses over to a solid wood horn tweeter that is 10 inch (25 cm) in diameter and crosses around 2KHz. The drive and punch of this speaker is really superb and coloration is very low...coming from planars both coherence and coloration were quite important to me. The only thing lacking is bass below about 45Hz that I compensate for with a nice bipolar servo sub (old Mirage but is really fast and keeps up with the horns well).

I was quite impressed with what I heard from a Line Magnetic WE replica system a few years ago. It was definitely more colored than my own Odeons but it was also more immediate overall and made a "bigger" sound. Of course, I am having to shove my system into a room that is a bit too small that affects soundstage width and depth.

Those old movie speakers you have I can imagine sound totally awesome and live sounding. How is the coloration? Also, how is the overall coherence as the drivers are fairly widely spaced.