Okies, so here is a cut & paste of a post I made over at Stereonet, with my thoughts to date. Apologies for lack of formatting - WBF isn't easy to create lists etc in.
My server & Nadac is on loan for a few weeks for review so will update my thoughts when it comes back.
Set up is the main PITA with the Nadac, and the lack of a physical remote, but once you have that worked through, it is very good. You have to think in terms of network and ASIO locks, rather than connections ie the ASIO driver and the Nadac have to be on the same ethernet connection, which isn't as straight forward as it sounds. Particularly on windows, which can be a nuisance to configure - especially if you run headless ie via remote desktop.
One thing about the Nadac, when it locks onto its ASIO driver over the ethernet, there is no letting go. So conversely getting it to release its ASIO driver and pick up another is a nuisance.
By way of example to move the ASIO driver from eg Roon to eg HQ Player involves closing the Roon server software, starting HQ Player, playing something in HQ Player, stopping HQ Player, adjust the settings to allow for DSD (sdm) conversion as you want, clear the playlist, start Roon, select HQ Player as your local host, play something in Roon and fingers crossed you have DSD 256 coming out through the Nadac. Similar process to play direct from Roon from HQ Player. It may sound simple, but everytime you close the sw locking the ASIO driver you lose the "lock" in the Nadac, and it doesn't acquire a new lock UNTIL you start using it again. But you get native DSD 256, which sounds considerably better than DoP 128 on OSX (or I imagine) linux to my ears.
It isn't as simple as ticking the box in the "Audio Station" in Roon. Took me a while to nut all that out. The accompanying manual isn't especially helpful.
Currently I am enjoying the Mytek Manhattan very much straight from my MBA (via FW). The Mytek is an extraordinary converter in its own right. Again as with the Nadac, more so with DSD than PCM, but then again, that is what I play these days either natively or converted via HQ Player.
The short comings of the Nadac ( and cf to the Mytek) are, in my opinion, these:
Low output (gain) even via balanced. The Mytek puts out pro levels in XLR.
It has a volume control (digital I expect) but you can't use it as a pre straight to your power amps. Well you can, but it doesn't sound very good. The Mytek has an excellent pre stage with either analogue volume control or digital. I am happy using it straight to my power amp.
It is not remotely plug and play. Neither is the Mytek, but compared to the Nadac it is.
Edit: It is called the NADAC as in "Network Attached Device And Control" except it isn't: you can't control diddly squat over the network. To access any of its menu's outside of source and volume control you have to **** about in what is probably the world's worst 2 inch OLED screen:
OLED, 160 x128 pixels, 16 bit colors . I mean that is just embarrassing, and really hard to read even when you are right next to it. So for instance to know what firmware you have on board, I think, what you have to do is go into the "maintenance" sub menu and then, again I think - I haven't been game to do it - update via a downloaded file connected to via the ethernet. Why you can't do this via a network control i.e. the web page it loads is beyond me. Or have I missed something Merging? Seriously either implement network control or don't - the middle ground chosen satisfies no one.
The Nadac's literature is misleading at best - it gives you the impression you can plug it into your router and stream music from anywhere. Bollocks you can. There are two ways you can use it - either a direct connection to your server via ethernet or via your LAN, which requires a managed switch (they support Dell managed switches). It should be supplied with a (pre configured) Dell switch.
You can't use the remote App unless it is on your LAN, which means manual volume control /mute (if you are not using a pre) and change of source (or via its web interface - but you can't change volume control by its web interface only its App). Call me old fashioned, but at this level I'd expect a half decent remote control - eg the Mytek ships with an Apple Remote and I love using that - I can change source, volume, mute etc etc.
Being aimed at the obsessive audiophile, who want "the best" connection possible, I don't understand why they didn't allow for a fiber ethernet connection: it's easy to build a server with a fiber card. It kind of defeats the purpose of noise isolation via fiber to then have to run noisy SMPS FMC's to the Nadac. And networking FMC's isn't plug and play either.
Why of why they fitted a 3.5mm and a 6.5mm headphone out, I have no idea. Sheer stupidity. I can see a single 6.5 mm but better still why not one or two XLR connections for headphones. If its aimed at high end audiophiles, not iPod users.
The headphone amplification is weak. Actually its a disgrace - like an iPhone. The Mytek has (two) exceptional headphone outs in comparison, and provides RCA-XLR converters for balanced rigs. Again if you are going to do it, do it properly or don't do it.
I'd rather it was just a converter with no volume control, and no headphone out, no "App" a remote and several thousand dollars cheaper. The Mytek nails its brief.
The Nadac is in my view clearly the first audiophile attempt by a company, which doesn't really know what audiophiles want, beyond great sound quality. That is of course what they really are offering. But why they didn't sit down with some seasoned hi-end audiophiles and get their wish list sorted before making something, I have no idea.
My view is most audiophiles who will be looking at a USD 11k + converter will have either a pre/power combination or a (very good) integrated amp. They need a converter, not a converter that is a pre as well. Or a converter that is a headphone amp. That is a different market. Know your market and meet it.
The people that can afford this quality of converter are unlikely to have the skill set to implement its IT. They may, but most audiophile buying USD 10k+ converters are a little older, and want a solution not a problem. Part of the greatness of the Nadac is it's ethernet (non DLNA) transfer protocol, but setting it up isn't as straight forward as they would lead you to believe. Far from it. And really to get the most out of it you are limited to a windows box;
Merging should have spent more R & D time writing OSX/Linux drivers that allow for DSD 256 transfer natively (thank you eg ExaSound) and less time writing code for a useless App.
Ditto the Mytek - which promised firmware by 4th Qtr 2015 and has failed to deliver. Repeatedly. For example Mytek's USB drivers on OSX are incompatible with El Capitan, and you can't obtain DSD 256 except via windows. Annoying. With Roon & HQ Player you are limited to DSD 64 with OSX anyway. So its back to A+ for DSD 128, which is fine, but annoying. Mytek, it seems to me, have been too busy releasing new product eg the "Brooklyn dac" rather than making what they have work properly. Seriously - can no one get their act together?
Both converters shine with DSD, the higher the bit rate the better. Neither are great PCM converters, and I wouldn't buy either solely for red book. But that comment applies to all really good DSD converters.
Both converters benefit greatly from DSD dsp via HQ Player.
Now
why you buy this thing - and the Mytek for that matter:
DSD
Sound quality is, from the Nadac, the best I have ever heard with DSD - the higher the bit rate the better. Either native DSD or via HQ Player. Well recorded native quad DSD (256) is sublime. File sizes are huge - like 9 GB - but boy it is good. Like really really good.
Final caveats
The Nadac, as mentioned needs a pre. For my money it would have tubes, to flesh out the notes somewhat. Mind you this applies to PCM & vinyl for me as well. I like tubes somewhere in the chain - preferably at converter/pre stage.
The Mytek doesn't necessarily need a Pre, its got a really good (SS) one on board. But it would be further improved by a great (tube) pre.
On the fly conversion (via HQ Player) of well recorded pcm to DSD (the higher the bit rate the better) is really, really good. To me the math in HQ player is the biggest bang for your buck in audio atm, and its integration with Roon gives its weakest aspect - its UI - a massive boost up.
Thank you Mike Davis for educating this luddite. Kudos.
In my opinion, compared to spending eg 11k on a Nadac, you will get a bigger bang for your buck spending $400 or something on Roon + HQ Player and play dsp'ed DSD 256 through a mid range sabre converter natively over USB. Without the headaches.
Of course if you are shopping for a Nadac, you won't care about spending $400 or so on Roon + HQ Player. You are in a different market share entirely.
And if you can afford it you will get the best SQ out there.
If all you play is PCM redbook, and you have no interest in DSD, then I wouldn't be buying either the Mytek or the Nadac. There are much better converters out there for red book than either of these (or any sabre dac for that matter). TD 1541 and R2R come instantly to mind.
If you want a relaxing experience, buy a CD player. If you like banging your head against a wall, or disappearing down rabbit holes, get into computer audio. If you really like sticking pins into yourself be an early adopter. And for maximum masochism marks, try a new tech (eg the Ravenna protocol) without the IT skills to implement it easily. That would be me btw. And I'm not exactly a novice with computer audio. But I am no Blizzard either. And here is the rub, I've got the disposal income to buy it which means I am an established (in my case) professional in a non IT field who is older - 51. So of course I am not going to have the IT skills, and very few will have who can afford this. And don't assume your dealer is anymore equiped than you are to do this. I haven't meet a dealer yet that knows anything about computer audio beyond selling boxes (eg Aurender's) and for damn sure they don't know more than me. So if I'm struggling to nut it out (and teh Merging literature isn't very useful in this respect) then they will be as well. I suspect it will fall back on the distributor's poor IT person to sort. I pity them.
Is DSD 256 "better" than red book? I think so, yes. But, and it is a but, you can't say all things being equal, because they never are, and I have heard some amazing CD players/dacs (eg the Pathos Endorphin, the Killer Dac via i2s, various Audio Note's via spdif, 47 Labs Pi Tracer + Gemini dac, Meridian, Zanden etc etc etc).
If I had a large CD collection, I'd be buying the best CD player I could afford and enjoy the music. Provided all I wanted to do was pop on a CD and listen to it.
If you want to browse libraries, stream music etc etc then you start the computer audio quest. If all you want is to do so in 16/44, get a CDP with usb or spdif in, and live happily every after with a simple OSX solution or some such. Or get a USB to spdif converter and use a spdif in. Easy and effective.
If you want to experience high bit rate PCM or DSD then the game changes completely, and so must your expectations for ease of use and integration. Its a rapidly developing area, so you can expect some lumps and bumps along the way. The closer to the bleeding edge, the more you bleed.
Summary
There are many paths to getting the sound you want. Many audiophiles (myself included) regard vinyl as the ultimate replay experience, albeit one that is problematic and difficult, both from a sw and hardware POV. It is time consuming and bloody expensive. Really really expensive. Anyone that says different just hasn't heard a good enough system yet. The differences ain't subtle.
Many audiophiles want a digital experience that gets them"as close to vinyl" as they can get but with the convenience and ease of use (once set up) of computer audio.
People like me, that live in a large city in a small apartment, and one with a wife attached, don't necessarily have the space for thousands of records. Whereas I have 1200 odd albums mainly in DSD on my 2TB SSD, with room left over. It all lives in my entertainment unit. I control it via a Lappie or an Ipad. I can listen to an album without changing the record over. Important if you listen to classical works, as I do.
CD is a mature tech. It can, if you have the right equipment, sound amazing. It can also sound pretty ordinary. The sw is cheap, and the tech straight forward. You plug things into each other and press play. Not so computer audio.
Streaming audio esp at 16/44 quality has changed the game. You don't need a large library of CD anymore. You can stream the bits. All you need is a transport (computer) and converter. But so the computer audio game starts. Bits ain't bits, at least when you have a copper connection of any description between your computer and your dac. Like vinyl, it all matters and implementation is everything. USB implementation is universal, but cheap and nasty, and people have gone to extraordinary lengths to solve the problems that USB give rise to. That said, its universal. Merging think USB will go the way of firewire. Maybe. But not for some time yet.
DSD is a new frontier, and despite what people say, is here to stay. It really does have an ease to it when played back which I associate only with vinyl, and which is thoroughly enjoyable.
To get the best from DSD takes a fair amount of work. The Nadac represents, perhaps with the Lampi Golden Gate (which I have never heard btw so am speculating here but trust the ears of those that have), the best playback you can get from DSD atm.
Its sound quality is superlative. Transparent but thoroughly engaging. But, and it is a but, you have to work to get it, and none of it is easy - unlike the Lampi, which is I understand plug and play from an appropriate server.
So jump in, the waters fine, but there is no shallow end.
Message to Merging
And my message to Merging:
go hard or go home. Make the Nadac into what it should be - a foot to the floor SOTA DSD converter that is solely network controlled without the needless (horrible) physical menu interface, or put in a proper display not the excuse for the one you have, get rid of the volume control no one is going to use (how do you bypass anyway?? nowhere on the firmware mine has) and get rid of the the rubbish headphone outs that wouldn't pull the skin off a custard. Alternatively implement one really good one eg an XLR - we are talking high end audio here: not mp3 users. we all have balanced cans, or can easily get them.
Scrape the legacy connections (why would you have this?), have it only as a ethernet converter and then implement a fiber input as well as a copper. And if you insist on having a volume control give it even a basic IR remote (apple remote is fine). I'd like a remote for muting, source (if you must have legacy) and on/off. That's it. Oh and package it with a preconfigured Dell switch or even better a FMC. Don't assume your dealers (or distributors) who are probably older than I am have any IT knowledge worth a damn either. Sell a solution, not a problem.
Other than that, its a cracker.
So, C on the UI (and I'm being
really generous here), A+ on the sound quality from DSD, B on the SQ from PCM. C+ on the headphone out and volume control = why??
