Nagra HD Preamp Versus Aries Cerat Incito S Preamp

[Ron Resnick]

Who has experience with the Nagra HD pre-amplifier?

Has anyone compared directly in a familiar system with familiar recordings the Nagra HD preamp directly against the Aries Cerat Incito S preamp?

What are your comparative impressions?

Thank you!

 

[SuperDave]

Ron,
I have the Nagra HD pre, I haven’t listened to the Aries Cerat. I’ll be upgrading to the Reference pre as soon as possible, I thought the HD was special the first time I heard it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Did you compare the HD preamp to any preamp on a side-by-side basis in your own system?

 

[SuperDave]

No, not in my own system. I heard the switch between the Nagra Classic pre and HD pre in a similar but far superior system, same tracks. It was night and day and I liked the classic pre beforehand.

Dave

 

[Ron Resnick]

No, not in my own system. I heard the switch between the Nagra Classic pre and HD pre in a similar but far superior system, same tracks. It was night and day and I liked the classic pre beforehand.

Dave

How would you describe the differences you heard between the Classic and the HD?

 

[SuperDave]

Ron,
Ignorance is bliss, I could have lived with the classic without knowing what was missing. The biggest difference to me was the natural flow of the music, PRaT seemed so different, I had to double check we were using the same tracks. I had no intention of buying the HD pre, I ordered that day. I'm also a believer in preamps having heard a few DCS and MSB stereos bypassing the pre. IMO, it sacrificed musicality for the last bit of resolution, I guess it depends on where your priorities are, but the HD pre was a significant upgrade to the sound of music. That being said, the first time I switched tubes from Mullards(from Nagra) to a Russian tube also supplied by Nagra, the sound changed to flat, lifeless, and sterile. I ordered some pinched waist Amperex tubes from the late 50's that I'm using now. Unbelievable sound!

Dave

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,
Ignorance is bliss, I could have lived with the classic without knowing what was missing. The biggest difference to me was the natural flow of the music, PRaT seemed so different, I had to double check we were using the same tracks. I had no intention of buying the HD pre, I ordered that day. I'm also a believer in preamps having heard a few DCS and MSB stereos bypassing the pre. IMO, it sacrificed musicality for the last bit of resolution, I guess it depends on where your priorities are, but the HD pre was a significant upgrade to the sound of music. That being said, the first time I switched tubes from Mullards(from Nagra) to a Russian tube also supplied by Nagra, the sound changed to flat, lifeless, and sterile. I ordered some pinched waist Amperex tubes from the late 50's that I'm using now. Unbelievable sound!

Dave

Thank you, Dave!

 

[dan31]

I look forward to the preamp evaluations. I have kept a Nagra PL-L preamp. It can drive two sets of rca interconnects. It also has the output transformers for the balanced output if needed. It has been a solid piece of gear all these years.

Ron, the modulometer is helpful in setting up phono cartridges for balancing the cartridge output.

 

[jfrech]

Did you compare the HD preamp to any preamp on a side-by-side basis in your own system?

Hi Ron, I was able to try Nagra HD Preamp in my system when I had the Robert Koda K10. The Nagra was more revealing, engaging, and utterly quiet. And that Koda K10 is a pretty sweet preamp. I too will be upgrading my HD Pre to Ref soon...Not to sidetrack, but I did recently by the Nagra Ref DAC is oh my the diff vs my prior dCS Vivaldi Apex (again this is a pretty sweet set up too).

I'll add that tubes make a big diff in the HD. I've tried stock Genelex, Mullards, Amperex and currently loving the Mazda (kinda inbetween the Amperex and Mullards with a lil more punch). It's nice as it only has two tubes...so doesn't break the bank to roll some...

There are several HD Preamps at good prices as some are trading vs the upgrade path...

 

[jfrech]

I look forward to the preamp evaluations. I have kept a Nagra PL-L preamp. It can drive two sets of rca interconnects. It also has the output transformers for the balanced output if needed. It has been a solid piece of gear all these years.

Ron, the modulometer is helpful in setting up phono cartridges for balancing the cartridge output.

So years ago, I demo'ed the BAT REX, the Aesthetix Callisto, the Ayre KXR and the Nagra PLL. At the time I had Ayre MXR amps. So I thought the Ayre would beat all others. The Callisto was pretty sweet, I was a long time BAT owner...but was moving onto a different sound. That lil Nagra PLL beat out all above. It is one super sweet preamp. I went on to buying the Nagra VPS phono stage and keep that for 10+ years, as nothing could touch it, even at 3-4x the price. Then added a Nagra MPS PSU to both for another bang. Then the Classic Pre and Phono came out...only thing that could best the PLL/VPS.

I agree with Dave's points re: Classic to HD jump.

@dan31 have you tried a Nagra MPS or Classic PSU with your PL-L? Ditto the Nagra VFS isolation plates? I just love the look of that preamp too!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why did you prefer the Nagra to the Callisto?

 

[mtemur]

I look forward to the preamp evaluations. I have kept a Nagra PL-L preamp. It can drive two sets of rca interconnects. It also has the output transformers for the balanced output if needed. It has been a solid piece of gear all these years.

Ron, the modulometer is helpful in setting up phono cartridges for balancing the cartridge output.

I used to have Nagra PL-L about 16 years ago. It’s a nice piece of gear.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sorry to disappoint, but, on reflection, I've decided that I don't want to spend $35,000 (~50% off MSRP used) on any preamp.

 

[microstrip]

Sorry to disappoint, but, on reflection, I've decided that I don't want to spend $35,000 (~50% off MSRP used) on any preamp.

Can we ask what is the total expenditure you foresee for you whole system?
IMO such comment must be read considering the whole system.

We had debates where people argued that active preamplfiers are useless - and in fact from a technical point of view most of the time they are.

BTW, I envy your prospective seller - I never managed to get 50% of an used piece of gear ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Can we ask what is the total expenditure you foresee for you whole system?

I just do not look at it that way. I don't start with a total budget and decide I want to spend 12% on the preamp.

I always assume the amplifiers will cost more than the preamp.

 

[microstrip]

I just do not look at it that way. I don't start with a total budget and decide I want to spend 12% on the preamp.

Surely, I just wanted to have an overall idea, not exact numbers. You made a strong quantitative statement that IMO needed some framing.

I always assume the amplifiers will cost more than the preamp.

Similar feelings with me, but for yearsI had an ARC REF40 with a ARC REF 150 - the preamplfier was almost double the price of the amplifier and I still consider it was an wise decision. What was the amplifier being considered for your Nagra evaluation?

 

[Ron Resnick]

What was the amplifier being considered for your Nagra evaluation?

I have the Siegfried IIs and the JA100s.

 

[jfrech]

Why did you prefer the Nagra to the Callisto?

Hi Ron,

The purity of tone, the 100,000 colors (read beauty to the music), and an evenness top to bottom. It's like a 9 of 10 in every category an audiophile reviewer would rate. It does everything well....I've stuck with Nagra ever since...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,

The purity of tone, the 100,000 colors (read beauty to the music), and an evenness top to bottom. It's like a 9 of 10 in every category an audiophile reviewer would rate. It does everything well....I've stuck with Nagra ever since...

interesting! And I think of the Callisto as having wonderful tone and many colors!

 

[microstrip]

I have the Siegfried IIs and the JA100s.

It would be a very interesting exercise to listen to the Siegfried II with the Nagra - I prefer the Siegfried II in balanced mode. The best results I got from Jadis amplifiers were always with Jadis preamplfiers - the JPL and the JP80.