Need An Amplifier That Can Make Any Speaker It's Bitch?

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Your condescending, deflective garbage is not worthy of a reply. 21 straight years of continuous production, with continued refinements to the product line, and absolutely no burned out amplifiers the designer is aware of.

But why let the facts get in the way of your argumentative, objective nonsense.

Why indeed? Let's begin with this gem: "and absolutely no burned out amplifiers the designer is aware of."

That statement is complete bollocks. However, I will state, for the record:

Redgum amplifiers are, IME, not particularly unreliable. In fact, their simplicity makes them reasonably easy to service. I've dealt with Ian Robinson many times and he is a pleasure to do business with. He supplies complete output modules at a price which is so reasonable that component level service is barely worthwhile. But no burned out amplifiers? Not a chance. I've serviced quite a few over the years. OTOH, Redgum amps are pretty reliable on the whole (though I stress that I've only worked on fan cooled models). I do not wish to suggest that they are unreliable, because they are not. There are vast numbers of really badly designed products which appear on my bench with monotonous regularity. Redgum amps do not factor in this group.

In fact, thinking on what I've written, I can confidently state that Ian Robinson would never have made such a claim.

How're the measurements on that IHF pre-conditioning going?
 
Why indeed? Let's begin with this gem: "and absolutely no burned out amplifiers the designer is aware of."

That statement is complete bollocks. However, I will state, for the record:

Redgum amplifiers are, IME, not particularly unreliable. In fact, their simplicity makes them reasonably easy to service. I've dealt with Ian Robinson many times and he is a pleasure to do business with. He supplies complete output modules at a price which is so reasonable that component level service is barely worthwhile. But no burned out amplifiers? Not a chance. I've serviced quite a few over the years. OTOH, Redgum amps are pretty reliable on the whole (though I stress that I've only worked on fan cooled models). I do not wish to suggest that they are unreliable, because they are not. There are vast numbers of really badly designed products which appear on my bench with monotonous regularity. Redgum amps do not factor in this group.

In fact, thinking on what I've written, I can confidently state that Ian Robinson would never have made such a claim.

How're the measurements on that IHF pre-conditioning going?

So in essence you are saying, with your claimed technical expertise and direct experience that:

-redgum is a legitimate entity providing a reasonably good product
-the designer is a pleasure to deal with
-the products are a danger to no one and have shown absolutely no evidence of unreliability.

Thank you.

Edit: Redgum offers a 7 year warranty.
 
So in essence you are saying, with your claimed technical expertise and direct experience that:

-redgum is a legitimate entity providing a reasonably good product
-the designer is a pleasure to deal with
-the products are a danger to know one and have shown absolutely no evidence of unreliability.

Thank you.

Edit: Redgum offers a 7 year warranty.

No. In essence I am saying:

* Redgum amplifiers can fail, despite your prior claim (I don't believe that Ian would ever make such a claim).
* Ian Robinson is a pleasure to deal with.
* I don't much care for the sound of Redgum amplifiers and I loathe the twin volume control pots. (I acknowledge that others may have a different opinion)
* A heat sink on the base of an amplifier is a very poor design choice.
* The old Redgum, fan cooled amps, demonstrated a superior design choice. The fan moved air around the entire chassis, ensuring electrolytic caps were kept cool.

How's the IHF pre-conditioning testing progressing?
 
No. In essence I am saying:

* Redgum amplifiers can fail, despite your prior claim (I don't believe that Ian would ever make such a claim).
* Ian Robinson is a pleasure to deal with.
* I don't much care for the sound of Redgum amplifiers and I loathe the twin volume control pots. (I acknowledge that others may have a different opinion)
* A heat sink on the base of an amplifier is a very poor design choice.
* The old Redgum, fan cooled amps, demonstrated a superior design choice. The fan moved air around the entire chassis, ensuring electrolytic caps were kept cool.

How's the IHF pre-conditioning testing progressing?

I stand by my statement. Redgum amps have not used fans since 2005. Were you aware of that? Since that time,with the move to heatsinks, there has not been one catostrophic failure.

This is not the 1970s mate.
 
No. In essence I am saying:

* Redgum amplifiers can fail, despite your prior claim (I don't believe that Ian would ever make such a claim).
* Ian Robinson is a pleasure to deal with.
* I don't much care for the sound of Redgum amplifiers and I loathe the twin volume control pots. (I acknowledge that others may have a different opinion)
* A heat sink on the base of an amplifier is a very poor design choice.
* The old Redgum, fan cooled amps, demonstrated a superior design choice. The fan moved air around the entire chassis, ensuring electrolytic caps were kept cool.

How's the IHF pre-conditioning testing progressing?

What don't you like about the dual volume control?
 
What don't you like about the dual volume control?

It makes setting precise levels for each channel impossible and reasonable listening difficult. A quality Alps volume pot and balance pot is a far superior solution. Channel matching between elements is superb and the balance pots are 'straight though' (metal to metal contacts) at the 12 o'clock position. That said, I recognise that a small number of users may prefer the twin volume pots. I don't.
 
I agree with you Davey

Steve,

The main question is that no one has posted the single objective fact about the main question - the typical and maximum temperature inside the box. Unless we have these values, people are just debating cosmetics and preferences, trying to mix a few well known basic reliability issues to dazzle the audience with their expertise.

IMHO doing this type of speculation analysis based in a single case is poor practice and borders the unethical in a public forum. In order to have some interest the study should pick at less an half a dozen of similar price and specifications amplifiers and compare their objective proven issues related to reliability.
 
I also believe that Ack and Amir would probably be willing to pull back on their criticism of the inner workings of said product, if they knew that a) the value was more than acceptable and b) the sound was at least as good or better than any competing product for the same price.

I don't believe a WORD of what Andre said about its sound, so don't expect me to retract any comments about its build quality. Maybe I should post pictures of my much cheaper Rotel integrated, and then we can compare just the build quality. Perhaps I should also post a video of the mini monitors I built over 30 years ago (used in my TV room), and then we can compare.

IF, as the more technically inclined members here are postulating, that said product's build quality is sub-standard...and therefore likely to lead me to ongoing quality and reliability problems, then I absolutely DO want to know about that. However, I also think that a certain disclaimer by said members needs to be added, that says something like: "We have no real experience with this exact piece and manufacturer and that we have NOT heard said piece. Also, we have no information as to the expected reliability of said piece, but given it's overall build quality, buyers beware."

The reality is that one can tell a lot about just about anything in life - from cars, to porcelain, to crystal, to you-name-it - by simply looking at their *build quality*, and you don't have to own it, use it, or even try it. Take fashion/shoes as an example - do I really need to own or try something, or can I tell a lot about it by simply looking at photographs of it. What about the Yugo? Do I have to own it or test-drive it in order to relay that I think it's a piece of junk of a car? What if I then post owners' experiences with it?

BTW, I agree with what Amir is saying, but I personally said nothing specific about its reliability or anything related to that; Amir certainly made an effort to reference real owners' experiences on the net to that effect. I said this is the worst build quality I have seen in 30 years, and I was being kind. Take it as you may.
 
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is this well designed?

attachment.php


One can clearly see it has point to point wiring! :p
 
The main question is that no one has posted the single objective fact about the main question - the typical and maximum temperature inside the box. Unless we have these values, people are just debating cosmetics and preferences, trying to mix a few well known basic reliability issues to dazzle the audience with their expertise.
Color me dazzled, as always I'm impressed with the knowledge and acute observation abilities of the forum members here, amirm's work most notably here.

Your point about the actual temperatures is spot on, I mean how many amps of this size and power don't even have external heat-sinks?

I am a bit disappointed in the manufacturers comments, the heat sink looking like a sine wave - groovy and all, but why?

I like the shape, and listed many reasons why this pattern and shape could have hardcore theory behind it, but now it seems diluted down to a fashion statement or a trendy thing.

I even like the heatsink location, things which are mounted to the heatsink are in fact the heat generating sources. Sort of reminds me of walking too much and having to put your feet in a bucket of cold water to get the swelling down. Does it really matter what shape the bucket is, far more important that the mass of the water in the bucket is adequate to reach a lower temperature equilibrium desired.

Energy in, energy out sort of thing - I would not even call it a heat-sink, it's more of a mass-sink for equilibrium. Speaking of, what is the equilibrium's running temperature?

Andre and his sidekick Johnny have shown such arrogance and ignorance in this thread, that I will have a hard time trusting anything they have to say in the future.

It is a shame that a personality defect in a reviewer would have an adverse or negative reflection on a non-affiliated manufacturer, but guilt by association is a common thing in our society.

I recently had the pleasure of spending an evening at Paragon Sight & Sound in Ann Arbor, MI. Michael Fremer and Myles B. Astor well known audio reviewers were in rooms number 1 and 2 respectively. I can say these gentlemen were refined, knowledgeable and experienced, with never a trace of the impudence/impertinence and the contemptuous cockiness shown here.

Andre, you would be well advised to model your behavior after someone other than Jeff D., like I said before he has a history of alienating people. You don't want to be like him, there is still time to change for the better.
 
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Andre and his sidekick Johnny have shown such arrogance and ignorance in this thread, that I will have a hard time trusting anything they have to say in the future.

This is freagin' priceless! LOL!
 
It makes setting precise levels for each channel impossible and reasonable listening difficult. A quality Alps volume pot and balance pot is a far superior solution. Channel matching between elements is superb and the balance pots are 'straight though' (metal to metal contacts) at the 12 o'clock position. That said, I recognise that a small number of users may prefer the twin volume pots. I don't.

FYI, the current designs use a remote control that changes the volume on both channels simultaneously and precisely.

One can use the individual volume knobs to correct any perceived volume imbalance.
 
Oh, and let's not forget the self righteousness - LOL.

Anything else you'd like to add? I'd hate to have an incomplete member profile!
 
Steve,

The main question is that no one has posted the single objective fact about the main question - the typical and maximum temperature inside the box. Unless we have these values, people are just debating cosmetics and preferences, trying to mix a few well known basic reliability issues to dazzle the audience with their expertise.

IMHO doing this type of speculation analysis based in a single case is poor practice and borders the unethical in a public forum. In order to have some interest the study should pick at less an half a dozen of similar price and specifications amplifiers and compare their objective proven issues related to reliability.

Micro, that you for eloquently putting into words what I seemed to have failed at:

"..doing this type of speculation analysis based in a single case is poor practice and borders the unethical in a public forum."


Let's repeat:

"..doing this type of speculation analysis based in a single case is poor practice and borders the unethical in a public forum."
 
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I don't believe a WORD of what Andre said about its sound, so don't expect me to retract any comments about its build quality. Maybe I should post pictures of my much cheaper Rotel integrated, and then we can compare just the build quality. Perhaps I should also post a video of the mini monitors I built over 30 years ago (used in my TV room), and then we can compare.



The reality is that one can tell a lot about just about anything in life - from cars, to porcelain, to crystal, to you-name-it - by simply looking at their *build quality*, and you don't have to own it, use it, or even try it. Take fashion/shoes as an example - do I really need to own or try something, or can I tell a lot about it by simply looking at photographs of it. What about the Yugo? Do I have to own it or test-drive it in order to relay that I think it's a piece of junk of a car? What if I then post owners' experiences with it?

BTW, I agree with what Amir is saying, but I personally said nothing specific about its reliability or anything related to that; Amir certainly made an effort to reference real owners' experiences on the net to that effect. I said this is the worst build quality I have seen in 30 years, and I was being kind. Take it as you may.

You got me! I have been outed!

I have no idea what good sound is. I'm practically deaf.

The three hour listening session i had last night through 2 full Tindersticks albums and Miles Davis's Seven Steps to Heaven that had me enjoying myself
was a TOTAL ILLUSION!

Damn, exposed for the world to see!!

No back into your parlour as you were commanded to do King Ack.
 
Anything else you'd like to add? I'd hate to have an incomplete member profile!

JV, any doubts about why this hobby is treated with such scorn by the mainstream? Any doubts that there is much truth to the premise that this hobby is littered with absolute anti social trolls, smug, arrogant, and snobby armchair engineers, and delusional self crowned experts?
 
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