Hello Everybody the hunt has started again for a new dac for my Ypsilon setup suggestion are welcome
NEW DAC
- Thread starter jasbirnandra
- Start date
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
No I do not require DSD capabilities but let me inform you I am already using Ypsilon DAC100 looking for ladder DAC with good musical character
Yes, I found the same R2R / ladder preferrably with tube and NO filter. Listening to the Kassandra now, WOW....
If you want to waste money and go through several DACs, by all means try them all. But the best ladder DACs out there are IMHO the MSB products, with fully discrete DAC modules, modular designs, and minimalist output modules.
So far, I haven't seen the benefit of sticking tubes in a DAC, be them R2R or regular DS. But that's just me, as I understand the benefit that tube brings to the overall performance.
For your system, you can start with a Premier (with 2 power supplies), and then move to a Reference later.
cheers,
Alex
So far, I haven't seen the benefit of sticking tubes in a DAC, be them R2R or regular DS. But that's just me, as I understand the benefit that tube brings to the overall performance.
For your system, you can start with a Premier (with 2 power supplies), and then move to a Reference later.
cheers,
Alex
It is all an opinion. I recommend the Aries Cerat to Jasbirnandra, as he has already realised he likes the R2R and tube DAC route as a good one for him. My point is, if he bought the Kassandra, he won't need to consider another DAC later, it is end game IMO.
On using tubes or not, that is a big subject, and is similar in many ways to a tube or solid state pre-amplifier, or power amplifier. There is no clear reason to go SS or tube. But they ARE different in presentation.
Your last point, no point in wasting money on other DACs, get the MSB, you said get the Premier, then later buy the Reference at 40K. Isn't that buying and selling (wasting money)? I would say find a DAC that is right, then stop.
astrostar,
MSB has always offered an upgrade path with their DACs. They don't offer that anymore, but we (as a dealer) picked up the slack, and we do offer upgrades for clients, and I assume other MSB dealers do the same.
My clients know that if they purchase a Premier today, they can upgrade to a Ref with little or no financial loss.
You're reading too much into the OP. He never said he wanted a tube DAC, just R2R. Read again, without letting your personal bias get in the way.
thanks,
Alex
MSB has always offered an upgrade path with their DACs. They don't offer that anymore, but we (as a dealer) picked up the slack, and we do offer upgrades for clients, and I assume other MSB dealers do the same.
My clients know that if they purchase a Premier today, they can upgrade to a Ref with little or no financial loss.
You're reading too much into the OP. He never said he wanted a tube DAC, just R2R. Read again, without letting your personal bias get in the way.
thanks,
Alex
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Ladder DAC's have their deficiencies just as Delta-Sigma DACs do. I have yet to hear ANY DAC beat the Overdrive SX, even the Vivaldi stack. The output stage and volume control technology are unlike any other DAC. The output stage sounds like tubes only more focused with very low distortion. The volume control technology is unmatched for low distortion and evenness over range. It should be used balanced outputs only. If you are driving a SE amp, then I highly recommend my Final Drives:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/final-drive
Your bigger problem with any DAC is getting something with really low jitter. This will vary widely with the various interfaces, USB, S/PDIF and Ethernet. You will not find ANY DAC with lower jitter than the Overdrive SX with Ethernet interface. The detail, 3-d and liveness is incredible. Bass to die for.
BTW, my previous DAC design was a tube output Ladder DAC based on the PCM1704 called the Spoiler. Output tubes were Siemens CCA grey-plates. Very musical, but the Overdrive SX beats it by a mile.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Not difficult. Ian replaced his with the Schiit
I replaced my Vivaldi stack with an MSB Select II. I can't speak for how much of the technology trickles down to more reasonable price points but MSB has taken the DAC to a whole different level. It is the best sound I have personally heard in any system, demo or at a show.
Cincy
Cincy
What is the whole different level that you are talking about? Could you please fill in some details? Thanks.
Happy to know that the DCS Vivaldi is the DAC people want to compare to their favorites ...
i cannot comment about the MSB Select II compared to the Vivaldi stack, but here is a link about it here on WBF in addition to Cincy.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/msb-select-ii-arrival.23302/page-35#post-464076
i can say that the MSB Select II is unique to my ears in my system for digital, and every time i go to shows (including a week ago at RMAF) and hear it, it's another level from others i hear. i do believe that MSB has a better mouse trap......and for sure that approach at least effectively trickles down to the MSB Reference level. not heard the less expensive MSB dacs to comment. if you already have Ypsilon level i'm guessing MSB Reference level choices are operative.
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The most noticeable improvement was the "weight" of the sound. Saturated like analog but with the pristine detail of great digital. The Select II also performs like a Reference level pre-amp so I found the dynamics (loud / soft / in between) more realistic and with a quick attack. Particularly on percussion instruments and on piano. Overall the relaxed presentation was more satisfying on 16/44kHz files than on any other system I've ever experienced. Hi Res files for vocal works showed a naturalness that is unmatched by any other system I have heard. One caveat: The rest of my system including the cables was definitely up to the task of reproducing what came out of the DAC. I can't speak to what it would sound like with a weak link. While ordinary files sounded better than the Vivaldi, I needed to play my "best" audiophile labels (Mapleshade, Chesky, Opus 3, older Verve, Telarc, DG, RCA Living Stereo) to really notice the differences.
More mundane advantages include the simplicity of set up. The Vivaldi stack required connections between DAC, Upsampler and Clock with a multitude of settings. OK for sure but the Select II provided all the advantages stated above in a very simplistic package. The older I get the more I appreciate that.
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