New trends, Artisans in the Hi-End, Kuro SilverGold cables
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Another thing,near all cable use alloy on positive pole and use shield and not alloy on negative pole because no need to use alloy because negative pole don't bring signal,
Euro use the same alloy for positive and negative pole that after test is better for the sound,but the cost is much higher
Euro use the same alloy for positive and negative pole that after test is better for the sound,but the cost is much higher
Hi Gian, thank you but that information doesn't help describe the difference in sound between the cables, only the difference in construction. This is where a listening comparison would come in. I believe Dave uses silver returns in the Zenwave D4 with the silver/gold in the signal path, while he uses the silver/gold in both the return and signal path for the D5. The D5 becomes a more expensive and also a less neutral cable. The choice of silver returns in the D4 is to achieve neutrality. By my understanding, Zenwave uses a custom silver/gold ratio in the D4 and D5 which is not available to the general public. Dave says this formulation achieves greater detail than standard Neonetch alloy, greater neutrality, but without sacrificing natural tone and body as is the case with pure silver. I don't know what to expect with multifilar vs solid. I would need to listen to both.
While the Kuro looks interesting, it is around triple the price, and with gold plating would seem to be a very colored cable in comparison.
This is not exactly right, there are 2 mistakes here. The wire I buy from Neotech is custom and Kuro could not possibly have ordered a UPOCC silver/gold alloy from Neotech 20 years ago as it's only about 4 years old.
The wire I buy from Neotech is a custom configuration. It is solid-core, teflon insulated and has an undisclosed percentage of gold added.
The wire that Neotech stocks and sells to the public is very fine stranded with PE insulation and 1% gold. It is intended primarily for headphone cable and is possibly the best wire to use for that purpose ever made as the PE insulation is thick and flexible, it adds the required durability and also has a memory so it will retain it's shape after repeated bending. The finely stranded wire will be more resistant to break over time and with use.
Headphone cable has it's own set of requirements that are very different from cables that are not meant to flex repeatedly during use. The wire I have custom made is better since the solid-core configuration and teflon are superior materials, but less suitable for headphone use.
Also, Neotech only recently started producing the silver/gold alloy wire so it is not possible that Kuro bought some 20 years ago. UPOCC silver is very different, and while it is used in Siltech and Wireworld's top end IC cables I do not believe it produces a tone or timbre as realistic as the silver/gold alloy. It is very accurate but I do agree it is "thin" sounding.
Anyways, I do not expect people who are looking at cables like Kuro to consider my cables as the price is very different and I aim for the best value for the money while Kuro is not concerned with value at all. I don't say this in a bad way, it is great to have no financial restrictions and just make what's best regardless of labor or material costs. I have ideas for a line of cables that would compromise less by using an inert gas dielectric and a grounding system for the cable shields so they aren't connected directly to the component chassis. These will be much closer to typical high end cable prices for a 5% or so increase in sound quality. It is pushing very far up the curve of diminishing returns but so is all cost-no-object gear.
Does that mean Kuro is better? Actually, I would certainly send you a pair of my cables to try out.
IMO... it is far too thick.
I'm not sure alloy is correct terminology? It is pure silver with a gold plating as far as I can see? bazelio, stranded wire has some grain/harshness vs solid-core. I have made identical cables and compared them.
One last thing to think about...
https://rj45s.com/Gold_Plating_Problems.html
This was just the first result I clicked on on the first page of a google search on "issues with gold plating".
I do not know if the same will happen with gold plated silver and I have little interest in searching on this topic further as I do not use direct-gold-plated wire. But for those who buy the cables it's worth looking into as corrosion in hand-built audio cables is a problem for many of them.
Also I see issues with cables that can't bend many times without breaking, this includes any cable that uses large diameter solid-core wire.
If over time your cable corrodes and the conductor cracks or breaks the sound quality will get much worse, I know this from building headphone cables and repairing them. I also have reterminated many cables that have serious issues with this stuff, and have heard reports of many others failing, including one cable that uses a home-made pure gold wire.
It is easy to build things these days due to modern technology and internet marketing. On a recent episode of "The Grand Tour" they detail a dozen or so new supercars that you probably have never heard of. It is the same across all markets with new businesses popping up. However, IMO we're seeing a level of incompetence we've never seen before as a result. I'm certainly not saying this about anything in particular, but now more than ever I think the buyer needs to beware of what they are buying as a result.
https://rj45s.com/Gold_Plating_Problems.html
This was just the first result I clicked on on the first page of a google search on "issues with gold plating".
I do not know if the same will happen with gold plated silver and I have little interest in searching on this topic further as I do not use direct-gold-plated wire. But for those who buy the cables it's worth looking into as corrosion in hand-built audio cables is a problem for many of them.
Also I see issues with cables that can't bend many times without breaking, this includes any cable that uses large diameter solid-core wire.
If over time your cable corrodes and the conductor cracks or breaks the sound quality will get much worse, I know this from building headphone cables and repairing them. I also have reterminated many cables that have serious issues with this stuff, and have heard reports of many others failing, including one cable that uses a home-made pure gold wire.
It is easy to build things these days due to modern technology and internet marketing. On a recent episode of "The Grand Tour" they detail a dozen or so new supercars that you probably have never heard of. It is the same across all markets with new businesses popping up. However, IMO we're seeing a level of incompetence we've never seen before as a result. I'm certainly not saying this about anything in particular, but now more than ever I think the buyer needs to beware of what they are buying as a result.
Does that mean Kuro is better? Actually, I would certainly send you a pair of my cables to try out.
I strongly suggest to take Dave up on the offer to try out. I have his ZenWave D4 interconnects (3 pairs of them) and his ZenWave SMSG speakers cables. Couldn't be happier. Outstanding resolution and tone, neutral tone in the best sense of the word. The last cables I'll ever need.
Great system you've got, Al! I'll bet the dynamics and resolution are phenomenal. I'm going to be auditioning the D4 and D5 interconnects soon, myself.
Thanks, Bazelio. Yes, the system excels in these areas -- within its limits. Obviously, large-scale orchestral music is not portrayed with the effortlessness of high-quality large speakers, since the mid-woofer of the monitors needs to handle a lot of the complex signal on its own, but most music, including rock, works really great in my mid-sized room (even presentation of large-scale orchestra is still rather very good). I definitely love my system!
Great, I bet you will enjoy the audition, and I would not be surprised if you decide on a purchase.
PS: I love your avatar. Fantastic album, one of Peter Gabriel's best.
Hi Dave,
There is not mistake here; just a misunderstanding.
Gian just told you that Kuro was the first to use Neotech in Italy long time ago, not the Silver Gold obviously. it was just to state that Neotech was a brand well known by Kuro's owner.
Moreover, and more importantly, he does not use the Neotech's SilverGold cables!!! he wrote the specs for a local foundry for cables and goldsmithery which produce his raw cable.
I was told that before he tried the Neotech Silver Gold but didn't found the characteristics he needed for its project.
But the goodness of its cables depends not only on the materials used but also on the methodology to build and the materials for damping and insulation.
Please, what do you mean?
a key feature in Emiliano's products is the obsessive search for quality and the right value.
Does that mean Kuro is better? Actually, I would certainly send you a pair of my cables to try out.
the answer is yes to everything I've heard until now. For your cable, If you want I am available for comparison
it's like comparing apples and oranges.
with all my respect for a cable manufacturer like Zenwave, the two products have nothing in common, perhaps only the use of similar materials, but not in the methodology for the silver smelting and for the amount and type of gold plating.
I'm very happy for you, but I think you are a little out of topics.
I'm sure Dave makes great cables and I respect who search for a best price/quality ratio. But please, let us know which other cables have you compared.
For your cable, If you want I am available for comparison
Dear Paolo,
You try it. If you like it I will buy a pair too. I like what is best and cheap
.Kind regards,
Tang
It might be apple and tangelos, but people compare interconnects all the time. Here, the use of silver and gold in the wire is what they have in common, and as this is rather UNcommon in general, that alone makes it an interesting comparison. Further, it is exactly the differences in plating vs alloy, construction, and cost which makes it even more interesting. At over 3x the price, I do hope the Italian cable is "better" than the Zenwave by a very large margin. But the only way to know is to compare them. And so far, I haven't read much in terms of subjective feedback. Most comments are simply along the lines of "best I've ever heard", which isn't useful. As I've said, the Kuro stands to be a rather colored cable given its high gold content. This is fine, and probably even preferable to some, but it'd be more useful if owners would subjectively describe its sound to the forum. I believe Gian already referred to this cable as having a "sweet" sound, so that is a start and good info for those of us who prefer a neutral cable. The more appropriate comparison is probably Kuro vs Zenwave D5, since the D5 gold content is higher in order to intentionally produce coloration. So, likewise, if the Kuro manufacturer provides audition samples to prospective customers, I'd love to listen to them when I audition the Zenwaves.
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that's right. Me too I prefer read about feedback concerning the feeling on the system.
I've wrote some opinions at the beginning of this thread.
Now which my cables ended the burn-in period, I may add the following:
1. the general feeling is of extreme naturalness in all instruments. I would not say it's "sweet". I would rather say that what I feel is "true", "real". The music flow is dense, organic, without any distortion.
2. the third dimension in the complex orchestral pieces is vivid, present and the back rows do not seem out of focus as I was used to listening with MIT (which gave me the feel of 3d but with less detail).
3. the bass is correctly articulated and deep without giving any hint to booming.
4 voices are "sublime" and without the slightest hint of being intrusive in the mids.
hope this better help. Honestly, I was the first to be surprised about the result of these cables on my system.
Feel free to ask, if any further info or feedback you may require.
I am sorry but my English is very poor
So Paolo and Tang explained very well
I told sweet because is not hard or bright like some silver cable
I had MAX Phono and MAX rev 2
And tried at home Stealth Indra V 10 and one of the top of the line Kharma
My Kuro copper 7n with mumetal are better of all of this
Listening the new silvergold I can say is much better in everything than the copper 7 n line
So Paolo and Tang explained very well
I told sweet because is not hard or bright like some silver cable
I had MAX Phono and MAX rev 2
And tried at home Stealth Indra V 10 and one of the top of the line Kharma
My Kuro copper 7n with mumetal are better of all of this
Listening the new silvergold I can say is much better in everything than the copper 7 n line
Thanks! It sounds like this cable has a fair amount of harmonic saturation/density. But this is a coloration, and again, it's great if that's what you're looking for in a cable. Bass articulation would be one of the areas I'd personally compare to something like the Zenwave. Good to hear it's not boomy. Still, I doubt I would buy this cable based on the description but I'm very will to be surprised like you!
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