Newbie into R2R: Can you guys give me tips and pointers?
- Thread starter joey_v
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i will not try to answer beyond your specific question. but know there are many decks when in really great condition can perform at a high level, my preferences are not intended to be comprehensive.
there are three decks i would say are my favorites in top level stock form. the Studer A-820, Ampex ATR-102, and Studer A80. in my experience.
of those three, my opinion is that acquiring and then getting the deck to top level form is likely easiest with the Ampex ATR-102. and it has the most support in North America. although those other two are also fairly service able and parts can be found. but you are more challenged. and would need to locate a tech near you who could support you. the A-820 being the bigger parts challenge compared to the A-80.
as far as my personal favorite all around; it's the decks i own; which are ATR-102's (one 1/4" deck and one 1/2" deck) which are modified better than new by ATR Service Inc, and tubed MR 70 preamps also modified to better than new are used as the output electronics. my next favorite deck would be the same ATR-102 modified but using the stock Ampex electronics, and next would be a stock ATR-102 but renewed by ATR Service.
that same order would be the three best sounding decks i have heard. but certainly a top condition A-820 or A-80 would be on the same level as the pure stock ATR-102. i'm sure many would raise their hand with an alternate idea on this.
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Here's David Denyer's synopsis of new tapes released in 2023... lot's of new titles & genres to choose from. I'm sure there are more but just the ones he's heard....
thereeltoreelrambler.com
Ed
Looking back at 2023: a great year for new releases on tape!
If you follow this blog you’ll have seen some really exciting stuff going down in the world of tape this year. It’s been a bumper (and for me, budget-busting!) year for tape. My bank balance is now…
thereeltoreelrambler.com
Ed
I've been involved with R2R tape since the early 60s. While in the military and stationed overseas our Posts/Bases had Audio Clubs that we could purchase equipment through and I started with a Revox A77. Over the years I've had many different decks and now still enjoy both 2 track and 4 track with Revox PR99 MkIII handling the 2 track and a Revox B77 MkII the 4 track formats. These are not $20k + decks and usually can be acquired for around $2k to 3k and another $2k to be restored. These are not top of the line decks but, still provide excellent sound reproduction and many hours of listening enjoyment.
A bit off topic: I have started receiving some tapes that were about to be discontinued.
is it OK to store them, in their Analog Productions case, about 6” away from a power supply (Nagra)? I’ve ordered a gauss meter to be sure; but my guess is the magnetic field must be quite strong to affect the stored content?
is it OK to store them, in their Analog Productions case, about 6” away from a power supply (Nagra)? I’ve ordered a gauss meter to be sure; but my guess is the magnetic field must be quite strong to affect the stored content?
Just remembered that the iPhone measures magnetic strength quite sensitively. Downloaded "Metal Detector" app which measures in micro-Tesla. Totally fine in this shelf above some power supplies - but I have other PSUs that do read a higher than nominal magnetic strength.
Worth checking your storage area, as I found some areas that I thought would be benign and were not.
Worth checking your storage area, as I found some areas that I thought would be benign and were not.
What is the minimum distance one should sit from a tape machine in order to not hear the machine itself during playback? I understand that all machines/tapes make some noise during playback, unlike a record player, for example.
A well maintained machine should not have significant noise. However, loss of lubricants on old tapes can cause squeaking. This can be ameliorated by applying Last tape preservative or silicone fluid.
Some machines are quite noisy among others the Telefunken M15 and the Sony APR 5003V. I have 3 fully overhauled capstan motors for my Studer A80 and I selected the quietest. But indeed a good and well maintained machine should not have significant noise.
There are always going to be some sample-to-sample variations... so my M15A is very quiet, but the Sony I can hear 10-12' away... however, the ATR-102's are always quiet...I am sure in part due to the fact their 2.5" diameter capstan is barely spinning.
At 15ips there is nothing there spinning faster than 2rpm. The reels, of course, are not doing more than 1rpm.
Interesting, thanks. But then a faster spinnIng capstan has more precise speed control… I guess it’s all trade-offs, like with everything else.There are always going to be some sample-to-sample variations... so my M15A is very quiet, but the Sony I can hear 10-12' away... however, the ATR-102's are always quiet...I am sure in part due to the fact their 2.5" diameter capstan is barely spinning.
And what is that reason?
Perhaps it’s due to technical limitations of motor control electronics at the time.
It seems like someone planted that idea into your mind, but it is incorrect. The manufacturing tolerances will play much more significant role in a small diameter capstan, so a .001" tolerance will be a more significant portion of 2mm than of 10mm. Plus small diameter parts are generally harder to make accurately.
Next comes the tape slippage, which will be far, far greater with a small capstan than it is with a, say, 12mm one. Slippage kills speed accuracy.
Add to this such things as bearings tolerances, and the capstan bending and you should see why large capstan is a clear winner.
Not surprisingly the machine with one of the best W&F performance in the industry uses a 35mm capstan. And the ATR-100 with its huge 2.5" capstan is just a tiny step behind.
You should take what the manufacturers tell you with a huge dose of salt.
Next comes the tape slippage, which will be far, far greater with a small capstan than it is with a, say, 12mm one. Slippage kills speed accuracy.
Add to this such things as bearings tolerances, and the capstan bending and you should see why large capstan is a clear winner.
Not surprisingly the machine with one of the best W&F performance in the industry uses a 35mm capstan. And the ATR-100 with its huge 2.5" capstan is just a tiny step behind.
You should take what the manufacturers tell you with a huge dose of salt.
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And you should take into account 50+ years of digital and motor innovation, which clearly has been monumental. I have no doubt this was all true 50 years ago, but likely untrue with modern machines. Any modern machine should beat W&F of any vintage machine for this reason alone. Now I doubt anyone has measured, but it makes intrinsic sense.
Slippage kills speed accuracy: sure. But a small capstan = more slippage? Why? There is no physical reason for that. There must have been other intrinsic differences in the machines if that has been your experience.
It’s a new world out there guys!
Slippage kills speed accuracy: sure. But a small capstan = more slippage? Why? There is no physical reason for that. There must have been other intrinsic differences in the machines if that has been your experience.
It’s a new world out there guys!
It's OK... believe what you wish.
BTW, you say 50+ years... I spend the last 50+ years working in electronic industry: military, instrumentation, last 30 years in high-end audio, so I would venture to say I have some idea about the progress.
BTW, you say 50+ years... I spend the last 50+ years working in electronic industry: military, instrumentation, last 30 years in high-end audio, so I would venture to say I have some idea about the progress.
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Then explain why TechDas was hunting for old Papst motors for their Air Force Zero similar to those found in the Studer A80?
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