Nordost- Making the Connection

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day maties, finally making the connection!

I was looking for my earlier posts referring to Nordost accessories but couldn't quite locate it... so thought I'd start a new one and keep it to all things Nordost. I'm actually wondering if it's making the connection or making the right decision, damn expensive these gadgets.

Oh boy, let's see now... what does a couple grand in AC power distribution get you? Well, it will deliver superb clarity, definition and a truck load of finesse! This is the Qbase-8 MKII (Aus 10A version) that I had ordered, and finally arrived! It took a few months because in Aus we have some weird plugs, which takes special Ops to source from the Himalayans...
Comparing both the MKI and MKII side by side, there's hardly any difference cosmetically that is. But when you actually hold the MKII in your hands, there's definitely something special about it. The build quality and finish is superb! Simply outstanding, there's nothing to fault other than further upgrade to the MK3 IF you really need to go there. That's another grand or two, so all up about 4grand.

What the MK3 does is offer 20Amp outlets along with the high grade audiophile fuse supplied by Nordost (which is also found on the MKII). The MK3 is mostly suited for high power applications. By high power, I'm referring to amperage not power in watts. If you plan on installing 20Amp circuits or a dedicated 20Amp AC line to your Audio rig, only then will the MK3 power board come to full potential.

The MKII comes supplied in two versions, either 15Amp or 10Amp. So again, unless you happen to have a dedicated 15Amp AC line, getting the higher amperage is of no use. So I simply ordered what the house grid rating is. Since I've already installed a dedicated AC line for the Audio system, which is 10Amp, that's MORE than adequate for domestic Hifi. This is not a rock concert or a live gig.

Performance can be based on three critical factors:
1. Further Quietness
2. 3D Openness and transparency
3. Limitless dynamics

These three factors were very good even on the MKI version, I had absolutely no flaws with that one. However, the MKII takes those factors to another level, which I didn't think was possible. The MK3 is supposed to be further up there but I'll draw the line with this one, and my grid is not wired for 20Amps in any case.

Overall performance: is the pricing justified?..., not sure about this, simply because the difference from the MKI version to the MKII is not 40%. I would say somewhere around the 20% mark if at all. I've discussed this with Nordost at length and their general advice has been that if after all these add-ons in accessories doesn't yield significant improvements then the system has achieved its full potential / synergy. Going further than that will see 10 - 15% marginal improvements or even less.
So, for those thinking of upgrading from the MKI version to the MKII, yes it's worthwhile only if you really must. Other than that, the MKI is good enough.

At this particular stage where my system has been developed over the years, especially now since using a full Nordost power loom and its AC power related accessories, I think I'll draw the line at this point. Even though this performance margin may not seem much, I'm still quite surprised how Nordost achieves this level yet again, and they continue to do this with every item they offer.

When the wifey saw this thing, she commented, "Oh another toy eh... what's the big deal?" Then I played a few of her regular tunes, Tracy Chapman, Lizz Wright and Sam Smith... then she said, "OK" and went to bed. That's all she wrote. Phew! So for a couple grand it wasn't the dog house after all. It's only when that spend goes overboard it's either the doggy den or ducky pond, SO this time doggy gets a bone!

Cheers to Nordost! And do enjoy those very fine tunes.
WOOF!!! RJ

 

[Johan K]

Hi RJ,

Nice report… Cool! Congratulations to the new Nordost gear!

Can you please sign me up for that evening courses of yours, were you learn all the trix to fumble the wife’y into the shadows - regarding expensive audio gear !! That would be most appreciated !!

/ Jk

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Haaa, good one mate.
It use to be that way in the old days, more or less. But now, since we've been together now for over 20yrs, I find that honesty and transparency is far better than hiding... plus when you're honest you get an extra cuddle or something to that effect.

No more hiding from my side, also the pricing questions don't come up much often as they used to. I guess she really can't be bothered with this nonsense. As long as I don't sink the ship... she seems quite stable. So! For now it's full steam ahead captain!

Cheers matey, and enjoy those finest tunes.
Woofty woof'n! RJ

 

[Johan K]

Haha..!!

Just kidding Big Dog!! Me too some 20 + years with the wife’y! I couldn’t hide an extra headshell even if I wanted to, without the wife would know about it - She knows me too well, LOL ! So I’ve been quite transparent throughout the years…

I’m all aboard - Aj Aj Captain☝!!!

/ Jk

 

[cohsys]

Greetings,
If you enjoy the QB-8 and other Nordost accessories, then you will definitely be a candidate to enjoy the next level of sonic performance from the ADD POWR line of Sorcer, Apprentice, and Wizard AC harmonic conditioners. Hi-Fi+ gave the Apprentice recommended product of 2023. David Robinson of Positive Feedback gave the Sorcer X4 product of the year in 2022.
Worth checking out… as are the Powr Bar and ElectraClear eau2/4 AC harmonic resonators.
You won’t be disappointed…!

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Based on the above post by Cohsys, yes I agree there are so many ways to further improve the system. However, I feel that once your system has reached a certain threshold, that's it! Pushing beyond this is of no point. I've also seen many people constantly spending once or twice a year on several upgrades, gear, accessories and other components... all in good faith of realistic and natural music. Yes, that's a definite good thing but I strongly feel after a while, the music takes second place, and instead they're chasing the gear.The music was already fine to begin with. After that threshold point is reached, the limitations are only on the recording, nothing else.

I've drawn a line here to this madness, in fact from Feb next year, I'm thinking of downsizing to SS gear. I'll still keep my modded CJ tube amps if I can because those were custom made. I've invested far too much in them to just sell them off, and I've had so many wonderful amplifiers in on demos but fell short on what these CJ tube monoblocks can do. Even the big ARC Ref160M's, although quite good couldn't quite deliver what's in comparison to 60w Class A all tube power, no chance.
I've reached a short list of SS contenders, and now it's becoming more challenging to decide:
1. Pass Labs XA60.8
2. Vitus SS-103
3. Burmester 032

The Dartzeel and Aries Cerat are off this list, not because of sound & performance, rather their pricing in AUD was off-putting (65grand & 80grand respectively), no thanks.

Those three listed above are way less than that, and those Pass Labs XA series are just superb! Similarly, the Vitus SS-103 and Burmester 032 performed supremely well with my CLX's. I ran home trials for over two weeks on each amp, it was fabulous! I even home trialled the mighty Pass Labs XA160.8's, that was on a different dimension but I really don't require that kind of Class A power, plus the room is not that huge. Also tried out the XA100.8's and actually preferred the simpler approach of 60w Class A on the XA60.8's. So far, these monoblocks are sitting at the top of the podium but that Burmester is slowly climbing up!

Tooob maintenance is getting costly now and the stupid Russian war is getting really out of whack! I mean really out of hand, prices have gone through the roof! In all angles, not just tooobs. So with that in mind, a simplified version of having a highend SS amp on hand is far more sensible than constantly burning tubes. That's my rationale.

So, in terns of further improvements (Nordost accessories, Odin Supreme reference cables, power boards and exotic wiring... I've drawn the line, no more). Will need to seriously consider that short list again early next year and make a decision by mid year or so.

Until such time, do enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[exile]

Here we go with the Nordost power conditioner set up I have. First I have two Q Base 4's because my amp, Threshold S 300 and Pre amp , Threshold SL 10 and TT are on different sides of the room and will stay that way. I have four plug ins, the QK 1, QV 2, Q Sine and Q Wave. . The QK and QV are with the pre amp base and the Q Sine and Q Wave are with the amp base. I also have a spare Q Sine my dealer lent me. I have listened to so many placements and combinations I am sometimes lost about what sounds the best, better, and on and on. I have two Blue Heaven cables and two Red Dawn . Red Dawn go from the base into the AC outlets, which I have replaced with a new higher quality one. My question is what combination and placement of plug ins would be optimum or at least give me a good idea what to listen for. My dealer has been great and helpful, I'm just looking for more ideas and hands on experience. Thanks. pdr

 

[ecwl]

Here we go with the Nordost power conditioner set up I have. First I have two Q Base 4's because my amp, Threshold S 300 and Pre amp , Threshold SL 10 and TT are on different sides of the room and will stay that way. I have four plug ins, the QK 1, QV 2, Q Sine and Q Wave. . The QK and QV are with the pre amp base and the Q Sine and Q Wave are with the amp base. I also have a spare Q Sine my dealer lent me. I have listened to so many placements and combinations I am sometimes lost about what sounds the best, better, and on and on. I have two Blue Heaven cables and two Red Dawn . Red Dawn go from the base into the AC outlets, which I have replaced with a new higher quality one. My question is what combination and placement of plug ins would be optimum or at least give me a good idea what to listen for. My dealer has been great and helpful, I'm just looking for more ideas and hands on experience. Thanks. pdr

This is my personal opinion. Some of it is scientific. Some of it is just by feel and by experience with these products.

First, the purpose of QB4 is so that low level ground loop leakage currents radio frequency noise from one dirty power supply can’t sneak through from one component into another. If you have no digital products (DACs, streamers), this is generally less of an issue. But this is why everything is supposed to be plugged into the same QBase. It’s also why Nordost has so many grounding products like QKore and QLine.

If your amp S300 is by itself, there is no real reason to plug it into the QB4 with a Blue Heaven and then plugging the QB4 into the wall with a Red Dawn. You’re better off plugging the Red Dawn directly from the wall into the S300.

From listening, I feel like Qk1 & QSine remove a bit of power noise and make the music smoother and warmer. I think the Qv2 & QWave actually injects power line frequency harmonic noise to help the capacitors of your audio component charge faster? As a result, the music generally becomes more exciting but sometimes can become too harsh. QSine works more than Qk1. QWave works more than Qv2

So if I were you, what I would probably do is to listen to the system with the S300 plugged into the wall and no QRT products plugged into the other QB4 for the TT & SL10.
If you feel the music isn’t exciting enough, maybe plug in the QWave in the same wall outlet as the S300. If the music sounds harsh, switch the QWave out for the Qv2.
If the music already sounds a bit harsh or noisy to you, then plug the Qk1 into the QB4 with the TT & SL10. If you’re not getting the improvements you want, replace the Qk1 with the QSine. If that’s still not good enough, then plug in the Qk1 where the S300 wall outlet is. And if that’s still not good enough, replace the Qk1 with the QSine loaner from your dealer.

And that’s probably it. You’ll end up with a spare QB4, a spare Blue Heaven cable and a bunch of spare QRT products that you can recoup money for room acoustic treatment or more LPs.

This is just my personal opinion. Others may disagree.

 

[exile]

Thanks so much, I have work to do. I do like the Nordost line, good solid, well made products.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Very good suggestions by Ecwl, and take your time in finding the type of custom sound that you're after. This can be done using an array of Nordost accessories, which you have. So no rush, just enjoy the ride. Each type of accessory also takes a short while to settle in... hence allow that to first happen before making changes, otherwise you'll be going in circles.

Regardless of custom sound, the main goal is to arrive at a purer uncoloured sound. One that's very transparent and neutral as possible. It will also let more of the music to flow and reproduce exactly what's on the recording or at least 99% of the recording, hence nothing's perfect. You'll also experience a very quiet background, virtually zero noise floor, which contributes to a greater level of transparency and inner detail. Sometimes it can get too squeaky clean. Nordost are exactly those type of accessories that allows your system to do this, operating at the highest level of performance.
Note: Remember one thing: once you've fiddled around with all the accessories and have tried various combinations and have arrived at an optimised level, thats it! This is your systems threshold. Sure there are other ways of further improvements, and obviously more spending... sky's the limit! There's really no point in further exhorbitant spend, it never ends and we chase perfection, which doesn't even exist!

So only when you feel whichever accessory/s have given you what you're looking for in terms of absolute musicality and you're truly enjoying the music, just leave it at that! If not, you'll find your bank account draining, along with your savings that may go into a minus balance... and you'll be over 70yrs with less hearing ability.

Cheers, and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[agisthos]

I had the Qb8 mk2, loved it, then got the Qb8 mk3, better again. Everything Big Dog describes is what I hear, lower noise floor, transparency e.t.c. Considering the Qbase is not a power conditioner, just a power distributor, its some neat trick Nordost are doing.

I use Heimdall 2 power cables, best I have had but I cannot go further up the line as each tier doubles in price, too rich for my blood atm.
If you have the Nordost Qbase get yourself a QKore 1 to add to it, grounding the Qbase via its ground post. Be warned once you hear this you cannot go back.

 

[agisthos]

I had the Qv2. A lot of people love it, but I thought while it did bring improvements it also took some inner micro detail away. But then i think that about most plug in power filters. It was probably the best of its type.

Never tried the QKoil, but I have a QSine coming Monday so will hear what that does.

 

[acedownunder]

Hi all - just joined this forum and wanted to ask a question - saw this particular post and thought this would be the most appropriate place to ask.

I have a Pilium Leonidas integrated amp and a Nordost Qb4 MkII. The Pilium is a dual mono with 2 x AC power leads. Question, do I plug one of the AC leads into the 'Primary Earth' socket of the Qb4 and the other into one of the others? The Qb4 manual advises to plug the intergrated amp into the primary earth socket assuming there is only one AC lead, but of course I have an integrated amp which requires two sockets. Am I better off using the non-primary sockets? I hope I've explained that well enough. Any advice would be appreciated. PS. I have a DAC plugged into the first socket ATM.

 

[ecwl]

Hi all - just joined this forum and wanted to ask a question - saw this particular post and thought this would be the most appropriate place to ask.

I have a Pilium Leonidas integrated amp and a Nordost Qb4 MkII. The Pilium is a dual mono with 2 x AC power leads. Question, do I plug one of the AC leads into the 'Primary Earth' socket of the Qb4 and the other into one of the others? The Qb4 manual advises to plug the intergrated amp into the primary earth socket assuming there is only one AC lead, but of course I have an integrated amp which requires two sockets. Am I better off using the non-primary sockets? I hope I've explained that well enough. Any advice would be appreciated. PS. I have a DAC plugged into the first socket ATM.

No idea. You could contact Nordost and Pilium. Nordost has an ultra expensive reference power distribution block that specifically supports duo mono preamps. And Pilium would know which power plug powers the display and control although that’s not the main function of the primary earth. My guess is what you said, leave the primary earth unplugged and put the Pilium into the two non-primary sockets. You’re not getting the advantage of the primary earth but you’re also not messing up your earth by lifting one channel and end up having all the ground noise potentially going into the other.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hi all - just joined this forum and wanted to ask a question - saw this particular post and thought this would be the most appropriate place to ask.

I have a Pilium Leonidas integrated amp and a Nordost Qb4 MkII. The Pilium is a dual mono with 2 x AC power leads. Question, do I plug one of the AC leads into the 'Primary Earth' socket of the Qb4 and the other into one of the others? The Qb4 manual advises to plug the intergrated amp into the primary earth socket assuming there is only one AC lead, but of course I have an integrated amp which requires two sockets. Am I better off using the non-primary sockets? I hope I've explained that well enough. Any advice would be appreciated. PS. I have a DAC plugged into the first socket ATM.

G'day mate, greetings from Down Unda.
Nice to come across another Nordost user... they're superb AC line accessories. Pricey but they do a fine fine job.

As for the plug-in installation procedure, since your amplifier has two power cords, I reckon plug one into Primary Earth and the other one directly next to it, followed by your other components. If during playback, you hear unwanted noise: hums, buzzes, interference of some sort... then plug that second power cord away from the Primary Earth, as you mentioned plug in the DAC next to Primary Earth instead.

What the Prinary Earth is doing is creating a dedicated solid Earth grounding connection, which the entire Q Base will follow that line. Since Nordost designs these power boards in the simplest manner, they're actually eliminating any unwanted noise mechanically before it starts from the AC mains. They don't use any fancy filters or digital gizmo's that can color the sound or even add artificial enhancements.

Therefore, the Primary Earth socket acts in such a way, when installed properly, it will eliminate ground loops and other interferences.
*Note* If you've plugged that second power cord of the amplifier directly next to the Primary Earth, with the first power cord into Primary Earth as advised, AND you don't hear anything abnormal (absolute quietness, zero interference, nothing...) then just leave it!

Cheers, and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[agisthos]

If the Pilium is using each side/power connection as a true dual mono, then you should not use the primary earth for one of the sides. In that case you would need the Qbase 10 which has twin primary earths.

But if one side is used for amps and the other for preamp and control circuitry, then it would be fine once you know which is which. Short of asking Pilium one quick way to know is if the fuse rating differs between the two inputs.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah, yes! Good point made above.
Only thing is, Ace-DU is using the Qbase4. The Qbase10 would be far too many under-utilised connections... let alone the Qbase-8.
Then again it may work.
You'll have to experiment a bit and see which connection/ installation config provides zero noise or the least interference.
Things should work out, do let us know how it goes. Always a learning curve.

Cheers, RJ

 

[acedownunder]

Thanks all (and a big g'day) - very appreciative of the time and effort you have gone to in assisting me. I will experiment a bit with the suggestions posted. I will also contact Pilium for their thoughts. One thing I neglected to mention is that the Pilium has a dedicated earth on the back (yellow binding post in image) and the Qb4 has the earth connector - is it worth connecting a wire between the two? I ask before doing it as I don't want to damage anything or do anything dumb!!

 

[ecwl]

One thing I neglected to mention is that the Pilium has a dedicated earth on the back (yellow binding post in image) and the Qb4 has the earth connector - is it worth connecting a wire between the two? I ask before doing it as I don't want to damage anything or do anything dumb!!

According to the Nordost manual, definitely not… Since the Nordost ground is supposed to be plugged to an external ground, generally outside your home to properly ground your system if needed. But practically, I suspect you actually can plug the Pilium ground to the Nordost ground without damaging your system because I assume the wires are just how they’re wired so nothing would get damaged. The issue though is that instead of directing ground noise away from the Pilium, you might direct them into the Pilium. It all comes down to how Nordost wired the box internally which I’m not totally sure about.

 

[acedownunder]

According to the Nordost manual, definitely not… Since the Nordost ground is supposed to be plugged to an external ground, generally outside your home to properly ground your system if needed. But practically, I suspect you actually can plug the Pilium ground to the Nordost ground without damaging your system because I assume the wires are just how they’re wired so nothing would get damaged. The issue though is that instead of directing ground noise away from the Pilium, you might direct them into the Pilium. It all comes down to how Nordost wired the box internally which I’m not totally sure about.

Thanks ecwl - that makes quite a bit of sense. Didn't think of it like that. Appreciate it!