NY Audio Show 2013 - My impressions

[garylkoh]

"Relax"; are you guys talking about Frankie Goes to Hollywood?

Yes. Specifically the "Sex" mix. There are a number of mixes that sound very compressed. Like Jeff mentioned with the "Annihilation" mix of Two Tribes, these Frankie Goes To Hollywood cuts have excellent sound and they are great music as well!

 

[garylkoh]

The emerging market is made up of 20 to 40 year olds. We were weaned on indie rock and electronic music, dance and otherwise. If we want the industry to attract the younger listeners we have to play their music and not just so called "classy" genres. What do you think Dead Can Dance is? A string quartet?

I'm in charge of choosing our selections at shows. My mindset is to thresh out how the systems are used at home because that is what dictates what music is being played at home. As such there's mellow music and serious music for "alone time" and fun music for "entertaining/party time". A good system should be able to conform to the owner's behavior patterns and not the other way around. We've had young couples actually dancing with matching fist pumping in our room playing Armin Van Buuren and Tiesto one year and Dash Berlin and Emma Hewwitt the year after. The challenge is timing what to play when all you have is a few seconds to "read" the makeup of people in the room at any particular time. Making transitions from chamber to something hard requires the person to do a quick spiel to warn some in the room. Do it with good humor and you'd be surprised how many older 'philes actually stay and enjoy. Perhaps not the music played but I mean who doesn't like seeing pretty ladies dancing? I don't care how old you are!

We advise those that like to listen softly and listen to more intimate material to come in the mornings when the crowds are thin and all the other rooms quiet. We're SRO most of the afternoons and sometimes past closing. We take these opportunities to talk softly with the showgoers and schedule visits to the showrooms. For our own sanity we play as wide a selection of music as possible.

One tip for show participants I will share is the power of the volume control. If you want the crowd to be quiet, turn down the volume instead of trying to play music over their noise. It works every single time.

Congratulations to all the NY show participants, may all of you made more sales, more friends and hopefully expanded the hobby's base! Cheers!

Thanks, Jack. That is good advice to all exhibitors.

I post my music selections pre-show, and try to be informative and educational both here and on Facebook. I do try to segue from one track to another. I won't jump from Vivaldi to Insane Clown Posse, for example. Although Swedish House Mafia to Eva Cassidy works as a transition. I do try to say at least a few words about the track I am about to play, and why I play it. I know that it may set some expectation bias, but it's better than giving someone a bad surprise with music that they hate.

Just as many older audiophiles stayed for FGTH as younger ones did for Shostakovich.

I thought this show was a huge success due to the diverse make-up of the audience. Quite a few told me that it was their first audio show, and how much they enjoyed it.

http://www.tonepublications.com/blog/update-nyc-show/

 

[PeterA]

I went to the show and brought 5 of my LPs. I agree with those complaining about the chatter. One demo was about to start with some vinyl on the prototype VPI table and I asked a lady at the door to please close it for the demo and the dealer said no, leave the door open. I guess he wanted to blast us out and hoped the sound brought more clients in. The demo was terrible. Too crowded, with chatter and loud, non-acoustic music. I will say, it actually sounded very similar to the "live" show that night in the KEF concert which featured an electric guitar, bass and drum set. It too was way too loud, distorted and unfocused. I left the system after about ten minutes, and the amplified show after about 30. My ears were ringing and it was an example where I really preferred listening to my system more than a "live" show. Incredible.

The best sound for me was in the Leonardo room. These were full range Ribbon magnatic planar speakers (20hz-20Khz) with an analog front end driven by 14 watt tube amps. Amazingly transparent. They let me play three of my LPs on two occasions and this group actually closed the doors and sat in silence to appreciate the Claudio Arrau Mozart solo piano and Vivaldi Four Seasons. Real music lovers with excellent gear. Great sound in this room.

I was underwhelmed by the rest.

 

[Odyno]

I think the 25/30 rule applies here. You can only have 25 to 30 securities in your portfolio you know really well... you can only have 25 to 30 friends you know really well (really well is the trick of course and means in the here the now). I know that in any given time frame I have no more than 30 records/rips/tapes in my equipment review rotation. As much as I complain about "Keith Don't Go", at shows it is a taste complaint, if I had to play it all day long to make a sale... that's aok.

Back on topic... I really liked the show, the hotel and the sound. Myles and I did a show recap several hours ago, I'll edit it (first) and get it up for everyone.

Great show!

I agree with you Peter 100%
I have 25 to 30 albums that are on heavy rotation but those titles changes all the time!
This is the reason I like to have 5000 album to dig in.
On a more serious note, I understand rep still playing the same Linda Ronstad I heard at the first HiFi show I visited 25 years ago. They know it is a safe value and it will demonstrate their equipment capacity to convey the music.
What gets me is refusing to play attendee music.
Potential customers will not make their opinion on a quick music track.
Ask retailers how much time most buyers spend in the listening room prior to make purchases.

BTW for who had a chance to visit the Kef, Chord, Kronos room, Louis Desjardin take a vicious pleasure at playing non-audiophile music bought from garage sale…..

 

[Priaptor]

People let's face it, these shows are like a traveling circus. There is so much product, so many combinations and so few storefronts to show them that these shows have become literally the only way for interested parties to see what is out there. First, to make any judgement as to how the equipment being demonstrated actually sounds has no foundation given all the variables such as first and foremost rooms. To complain about "audiophile" music being played, while understandable, is basically the standard all these manufacturers have no choice but to demo with. I doubt listening to Black Sabbath is going to be a show stopper to anyone.

The real unsaid truth is what deals are being made behind the scenes at these shows and what manufacturers are selling direct to interested parties bypassing their resellers. It is much more than you think, undermining the now dead method we all once listened and purchased our gear from. I know there are some that don't engage in such practices but more and more are indeed doing this. Or how many "manufacturer accommodations" are being made. They irony is that there are now so many manufacturers that companies like Nordost, ARC, D'Agastino, etc could probably just stay in business selling their goods to other manufacturers.

I don't think these shows are very good venues to actually evaluate equipment other than to see it in person. If it sounds good or playing the music you like consider yourself lucky.

 

[microstrip]

(...) as younger ones did for Shostakovitch.

Nice. What was your selection?

 

[puroagave]

"To complain about "audiophile" music being played, while understandable, is basically the standard all these manufacturers have no choice but to demo with. I doubt listening to Black Sabbath is going to be a show stopper to anyone."

"The real unsaid truth is what deals are being made behind the scenes at these shows and what manufacturers are selling direct to interested parties bypassing their resellers. It is much more than you think, undermining the now dead method we all once listened and purchased our gear from."

agree. i love Sabbath but if my livelihood depended on it i'd pander to the lowest common denominator of attendees which means "audiophile" demo music.

there was a time when the only 'shows' were CES in Vegas and Chicago. When the windy city was nixed it was just vegas. then Stereophile stepped up to promote an end-user show, with sporadic showings on the east and west coast. fast forward 20 years and now there are at least a half dozen or more annual shows with the intent of reaching the consumer directly. this is probably the future and in part an answer to brick and mortar resellers not able to capture new blood and grow the customer base.

 

[Priaptor]

agree. i love Sabbath but if my livelihood depended on it i'd pander to the lowest common denominator of attendees which means "audiophile" demo music.

there was a time when the only 'shows' were CES in Vegas and Chicago. When the windy city was nixed it was just vegas. then Stereophile stepped up to promote an end-user show, with sporadic showings on the east and west coast. fast forward 20 years and now there are at least a half dozen or more annual shows with the intent of reaching the consumer directly. this is probably the future and in part an answer to brick and mortar resellers not able to capture new blood and grow the customer base.

Exactly and on one hand while it is nice to see and play with all the new toys it really does a disservice to what the "optimal" components to one's situation is. It has literally taken me close to 2 years to optimize my system (enjoyed it all along the way) and have listened to many of the components and speakers some here love or love to hate until I finally got my system optimized where I am very happy and have no desire to change. However, I have a reseller who has been very happy to help me, including demoing in my home multiple products or getting me equipment cheap enough where I didn't lose much if I chose to resell it.

I am not sure if the old methods were better than the new methods, but it sure was easier. Truth is most of the high end stuff is so damn good these days, it truly is a matter of preference and what works in one's listening environment and budget. $$$ doesn't always make the best sound. Sometimes I laugh when I read these reviewers "best in show" like it has any meaning.

 

[Bill Demars]

I went to the show and brought 5 of my LPs. I agree with those complaining about the chatter. One demo was about to start with some vinyl on the prototype VPI table and I asked a lady at the door to please close it for the demo and the dealer said no, leave the door open. I guess he wanted to blast us out and hoped the sound brought more clients in. The demo was terrible. Too crowded, with chatter and loud, non-acoustic music. I will say, it actually sounded very similar to the "live" show that night in the KEF concert which featured an electric guitar, bass and drum set. It too was way too loud, distorted and unfocused. I left the system after about ten minutes, and the amplified show after about 30. My ears were ringing and it was an example where I really preferred listening to my system more than a "live" show. Incredible.

The best sound for me was in the Leonardo room. These were full range Ribbon magnatic planar speakers (20hz-20Khz) with an analog front end driven by 14 watt tube amps. Amazingly transparent. They let me play three of my LPs on two occasions and this group actually closed the doors and sat in silence to appreciate the Claudio Arrau Mozart solo piano and Vivaldi Four Seasons. Real music lovers with excellent gear. Great sound in this room.

I was underwhelmed by the rest.

Hi Peter-I am really glad that you liked our room. Thanks so much for bringing those records in. I just ordered the Argo Vivaldi from ebay for $25. What was the label of the Mozart record?
Bill

 

[mep]

Sometimes I laugh when I read these reviewers "best in show" like it has any meaning.

I actually think it does have some meaning. If you can setup a stereo system in a shoebox sized hotel room and make it sing, you probably have some really good gear and know how to set it up well. Many rooms at shows sound dreadful and it's easy to understand why when you look at them. If you can somehow beat the room into submission so that the quality of the gear shines through, it's worth noting.

 

[Priaptor]

I actually think it does have some meaning. If you can setup a stereo system in a shoebox sized hotel room and make it sing, you probably have some really good gear and know how to set it up well. Many rooms at shows sound dreadful and it's easy to understand why when you look at them. If you can somehow beat the room into submission so that the quality of the gear shines through, it's worth noting.

Well you just made the point of relative comparisons. Yeah, so in these rooms, such as a "shoebox sized hotel room" I would hardly take that to the bank as to what a system will sound like in my listening room. I have a case in point with Magico Q1s.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter-I am really glad that you liked our room. Thanks so much for bringing those records in. I just ordered the Argo Vivaldi from ebay for $25. What was the label of the Mozart record?
Bill

Hi Bill, I really did enjoy your room and am flattered that you and the group enjoyed some of my LPs. The Mozart is on Philips 6500782. Claudio Arrau, pianno. Fantasy in C minor K. 475, Sonata in C Minor K. 457, Fantasy in D Minor K. 397 (this is what I played) and Rondo in A minor K. 511. IMO, this is great music, well interpreted and extremely well recorded. It is not difficult to find.
Peter

 

[mep]

Well you just made the point of relative comparisons. Yeah, so in these rooms, such as a "shoebox sized hotel room" I would hardly take that to the bank as to what a system will sound like in my listening room. I have a case in point with Magico Q1s.

I agree with you 100% that you can't take that to the bank with regards to how it will sound in your listening room. But I would say the same thing if you heard the gear in a really good room because, well, it's not your room. You will never know how something will sound until it is in your room in your system.

 

[Priaptor]

I agree with you 100% that you can't take that to the bank with regards to how it will sound in your listening room. But I would say the same thing if you heard the gear in a really good room because, well, it's not your room. You will never know how something will sound until it is in your room in your system.

I agree hence why I miss the old days of having a reliable retailer helping and lending and/or bringing stuff to your home. Also it is nice to be able to try different gear with speakers you may like which at a show you will never hear. I know one speaker manufacturer at a show that used the worst possible electronics (not bad just bad for his speaker) and paid the price with "bad sound" by listeners despite making one of the best speakers in the world.

 

[docvale]

People let's face it, these shows are like a traveling circus. There is so much product, so many combinations and so few storefronts to show them that these shows have become literally the only way for interested parties to see what is out there.

True. That's why we go (and, in the US, we even pay. In Italy ALL the audioshows are free).

First, to make any judgement as to how the equipment being demonstrated actually sounds has no foundation given all the variables such as first and foremost rooms.

True, again. The real evaluation of a single component requires appropriate matching/setting. It's pleasant, though, to find a system that does really good even if this is not in a "super-controlled" situation.

To complain about "audiophile" music being played, while understandable, is basically the standard all these manufacturers have no choice but to demo with. I doubt listening to Black Sabbath is going to be a show stopper to anyone.

I have a different point here.
Once, in a show in Italy, the distributor of Pass and Proac started playing Back in Black of the AC/DC. A guy in the room looked at him as he was doing a deadly sin. The dealer, with a heavy Roman accent, replied "what the hell, I cannot use my system just to play little bells!". I totally agree with his point: one thing is demoing with music that allows to verify how good is the system, another thing is letting the audience to test the system with music that they're actually gonna listen to. Of course, you might not like AC/DC, or Black Sabbath, but you might love rock and you'd like to check whether the system is gonna be pleasant with the music you're used to listening to. Here it comes the only dramatic difference between the audiophile and the music lover: do you get excited if your super-system makes not-that-well-mastered music sounding bad?

OTOH, please also note that most of the audiophile music that they usually play is usually not that difficult to play with engaging results. Enough female vocal jazz! Why do so few dealers play symphonic music? Why is there so little testing of high-dynamic demanding music? This should be a must for a satisfactory evaluation of a system.

The real unsaid truth is what deals are being made behind the scenes at these shows and what manufacturers are selling direct to interested parties bypassing their resellers. It is much more than you think, undermining the now dead method we all once listened and purchased our gear from. I know there are some that don't engage in such practices but more and more are indeed doing this. Or how many "manufacturer accommodations" are being made.

That's a kind of bold statement...

They irony is that there are now so many manufacturers that companies like Nordost, ARC, D'Agastino, etc could probably just stay in business selling their goods to other manufacturers.

Many manufacturers are seen as pollution for someone, but, specially outside the highest-end makers, create competition: just look at the DAC market...

I don't think these shows are very good venues to actually evaluate equipment other than to see it in person. If it sounds good or playing the music you like consider yourself lucky.

Agreed. But sometimes it can happen you have an "epiphany". Doesn't matter if that's just luck

 

[Peter Breuninger]

The show should be about having fun, first and foremost, seeing new gear, second IMHO, and if you are in the market for say, a preamplifier- the opportunity to meet the designer or representative and ask questions about how it would integrate in your system. The sound at shows is more like a weather-vane, if after reading reports or visiting rooms you conclude that (show after show) consensus has the YG Carmel sounding realistic, the the odds are it will in your system. MBLs? do they win best sound awards? Then they may in your system.

Shows are about seeing and hearing...touching and feeling and meeting the people who bring us the music and magic.

 

[MylesBAstor]

OTOH, please also note that most of the audiophile music that they usually play is usually not that difficult to play with engaging results. Enough female vocal jazz!

Because most systems = epic fail.

Why do so few dealers play symphonic music?

Because most digital symphonic = epic fail.

Why is there so little testing of high-dynamic demanding music?

Maybe because of neighbors? Maybe because 15 amp service is shared between two rooms?


Perhaps people should lighten up have have some fun with the hobby. I think people take things often way too seriously. It's not code blue.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Myles and I posted at about the same time. We didn't see each other's post. Read anything in common? f-u-n

 

[microstrip]

(...) Shows are about seeing and hearing...touching and feeling and meeting the people who bring us the music and magic.

Exactly what I think. But the meal in a nice restaurant after the show should be part of it!

 

[microstrip]

(...) Because most digital symphonic = epic fail.

Perhaps people should lighten up have have some fun with the hobby. I think people take things often way too seriously. It's not code blue.

I have found that most of the time it is not the digital symphony, it is the tuning of the system and room. Symphonic music has a dimension that does not support any flaws in system setting, and an exhibitor usually does not have the time and conditions to tune his system before the show starts. Digital symphonic can sound great, but it is very hard to reach this state - e.g. it is easier to get it with SoundLabs than with the Aida's.

BTW Myles, you should remember that this is WBF not WFF (What is the Fun Forum)