Our planet Earth | Climate changes | Science | Global Warming

[ddk]

That is true. However, human civilization only exists since about 11,000 years -- a tiny sliver out of geological deep time -- and in that time changes have not been drastic. A global temperature rise of 4 degrees celsius may be catastrophic for our future generations. Even the Pentagon has chimed in on climate change, declaring that is a major national security threat.

There's no evidence that there will be a 4 degree global rise in temperature and we only have questionable models of what might happen in that unlikely event.

That was obama not the Pentagon, and the climate will change as it always has giving everything up to charlatans isn't go to stop it.

Our children and grandchildren may well say decades from now, "how could they [our parents and grandparents] do this to us?". What a shameful and disastrous legacy this will be.

It would be a shame to steal their rights and resources instead of preserving their liberties; and soon Tom's going to Hulk on us in green and close this thread .
david

 

[ddk]

You can rationalize and deny the facts all you want, David, but our future generations will not be able to appreciate such thinking at all. Depending on the final outcome they may loathe us. And perhaps understandably so.

I think if we let them they'll also get to enjoy and appreciate power hungry class A electronics with cheap abundant fossil fuels to power up these beauties as we do. Are you going green Al dumping your tubes in favor of an iPod that you can charge with some overpriced, under performing solar panels?

david

 

[Al M.]

There's no evidence that there will be a 4 degree global rise in temperature and we only have questionable models of what might happen in that unlikely event.

That was obama not the Pentagon, and the climate will change as it always has giving everything up to charlatans isn't go to stop it.



It would be a shame to steal their rights and resources instead of preserving their liberties; and soon Tom's going to Hulk on us in green and close this thread .
david

Future generations will not care about your and others' petty rationalizations. The only thing they will care about is their survival. And their judgment of our generation will be damning.

 

[Al M.]

I think if we let them they'll also get to enjoy and appreciate power hungry class A electronics with cheap abundant fossil fuels to power up these beauties as we do. Are you going green Al dumping your tubes in favor of an iPod that you can charge with some overpriced, under performing solar panels?

david

The price of solar has gone down dramatically (we are talking orders of magnitude here), to the extent that it can now compete with other current sources. You need to update your knowledge.

 

[ddk]

Future generations will not care about your and others' petty rationalizations. The only thing they will care about is their survival. And their judgment of our generation will be damning.

Start what you preach at home, reduce your carbon footprint, dump your system, turn off your lights and ac, put solar panels on the roof and ride a bike, until then you're of one us nonbelievers!

david

 

[Al M.]

That was obama not the Pentagon, and the climate will change as it always has giving everything up to charlatans isn't go to stop it.

Fact: the Pentagon's concern predates and postdates Obama:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...e-change-pentagon-sees-it-looming-threat.html

 

[ddk]

The price of solar has gone down dramatically (we are talking orders of magnitude here), to the extent that it can now compete with other current sources. You need to update your knowledge.

Have you gone solar?
david

 

[Al M.]

Start what you preach at home, reduce your carbon footprint,

I already switched from oil heating to natural gas, and I dumped my large station wagon for a small sedan (Nissan Versa) which uses half the gas and is much more fun to drive! I also exchanged almost all my old lightbulbs for energy efficient ones (as everybody in the US should have done by now). I also do not consider central air (rather than just a local air conditioner upstairs) because of the energy issue.

Could I do more, sure. But I certainly am far from being indifferent to the isssue.

 

[ddk]

Here he is on cap & trade i.e. private exchanges like his CCX to make a profit through regulations,

He was singing the same song since the beginning, even this in 2014 precedes anything his pentagon might or might not have said on the subject.

edit- The Usual Suspects behind all scams also involved in the Climate scam,

https://www.forbes.com/2010/12/22/c...k-obama-opinions-contributors-larry-bell.html

david

Fact: the Pentagon's concern predates and postdates Obama:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...e-change-pentagon-sees-it-looming-threat.html

 

[ddk]

I already switched from oil heating to natural gas, and I dumped my large station wagon for a small sedan (Nissan Versa) which uses half the gas and is much more fun to drive! I also exchanged almost all my old lightbulbs for energy efficient ones (as everybody in the US should have done by now). I also do not consider central air (rather than just a local air conditioner upstairs) because of the energy issue.

Could I do more, sure. But I certainly am far from being indifferent to the isssue.

Great Al, I'm all for personal choices!

david

 

[NorthStar]

Bob, People tend to forget about Fukishima and dumping tons of radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean. IIRC it was March 2011 and who knows where the radioactive blob is after it broke containment. Trouble is the technology does not exist yet to make any head way to handle such high radioactive levels. Oh well...absolutely no government leadership or the will to address this problem. No doubt when it becomes serious enough then we'll hear about it,but too late.

Roger, yesterday I've read your post above. Today I am replying: Personally, and for the well being of our human race, I take "radioactivity" very seriously.
That tsunami in Japan from 2011, the nuclear reactors' leak into the ocean (meltdown), the people infected, the cleanup effort, etc., in my calculated opinion is not worth the risk.
Why? Because the price to pay is simply too huge for everyone. It does not compensate for the short term benefits, and it goes against the value number one of our planet; the preservation of human life and wildlife. What we do here is spreading a cancer. We accelerate the heart and create heart stroke. And for what? In the name of technological advancement to provide "power energy". Well, this is not clean, it's deadly. We can read about nuclear reactors around the world...in Russia, in USA, in China, etc. ...And the fatal accidents that keep repeating. Smart people don't make the same mistake twice. We are not smart.

She's not very eloquent and this isn't a glitzty production but watch the entire video Bob and then go back and watch the "produced" climate change agend videos again with this knowledge...

david

Hi David,

Yesterday I listened to her for about 30 minutes, fastforwarding occasionally. You were right; she isn't the best interest 'grabber'.

We as non-scientist people on climate changes, weather behaviors, temperature of our planet since the history of level measurement, natural phenomena, man-made energy in contributing to the effects in a balanced ecologic system and as researched and analysed and measured by the global community of expert scientists on global warming, with the perspective from our leaders on economics, social sciences, development of our societies, political and cultural human advancement, geographical balance, natural management, crisis control, investment to long term future generations, ...etc., we have zero say, zero power, zero impact, zero influence, just zero chance to create intelligent interest in normal day-to-day life with the people surrounding us and beyond.

The only life we have is to adapt with our attributes and weaknesses. We certainly can discuss, exchange our ideas, listen and contribute spoken words.
If I don't believe in scientific studies, if I don't make a fair assessment in due balance, if I close my eyes to man's heated debate on global warming; I'm not travelling on the right train.
It's ok, it's not the end of the world, life's just too short to be worry about tomorrow. ...For the vast majority of the 7.5 billion people living. But what if...?
Do we take another chance to repeat our same mistakes?

What is the number one cause of death in the world?
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate
• http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-ten-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-world.html

We drive cars/trucks/boats/planes that use gas, we smoke, we drink, we breathe air, we make babies, we eat food from the soil, oceans, we cultivate what we have and with the water and sun we have. We consume beverages, sugar, salt, pepper, beef, chicken, eggs, cheese, cereals, milk, coffee, tea, whiskey, malt, wine, we process, we eat fruits, vegetables, we put all kind of stuff inside our bodies, we breathe the air around, and not all of us eat and breathe equally. We live our best with what we get. We are in a survival mode, seventh gear, overdrive.

Elon Musk just introduced his Tesla 3 ? http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-model-idUSKBN19V1YL
I'd work with him.

What we all have in common here is this: Musical sensitivities. If not for that I wouldn't be here and saying what I'm typing about global warming.
I am sensitive to my environment on all levels and aspects. ...Physically, mentally and physiologically. I evaluate myself @ approximately 30% of the people who have an interest on global warming and also on the next frontier...space and time.

There is no doubt; we live on a beautiful blue planet and full of beautiful blue people. It would be real swell to not only keep it that way but also to spread it...here, and up there.
This is the universal human challenge, because we have many tribes, many colors, many ways of living, many jungles, different vegetation, climates, humidity, dryness, ...
What one does affects what the next one does. What we do to our climate change, our planet reacts back to us.
We are not immortal; we live, we die, we repeat.

It is free to think peacefully, graciously and intimately. We take great care of each other, and of our beautiful blue planet and wildlife.
I didn't sign up for the job, it came up au naturel.

Carbon monoxide (fossil fuel), nuclear energy (radioactivity) from all sources are diseases that kill/stop our hearts beating.

 

[infinitely baffled]

It's very hard to take the Discovery Channel seriously on their documentaries when they have shows like "MERMAIDS: Evidence for their existence" or some similar title which was a totally bogus show with totally bogus "experts" that they interviewed.

I'm much more in line with the unexcitable physicists who cite much warmer and cooler climates for the planet long before people infested the planet.

But linked to changes in solar output and historically different co2 levels. When the levels of co2 in the atmosphere increase so does the temperature.

 

[infinitely baffled]

It's such an emotive issue. There are just so many clever people out there trying just to own the debate here... and there is of course always a certain intellectual power in being the ones that are right for sure.

The United Nations, the World Meteorological Organisation and NASA as well as many other more established and validated regional scientific bodies like the CSIRO in the Southern Hemisphere have shown the way with incredibly intensive, deeper research into working towards gathering a sufficient body of well reasoned scientific evidence to get some consensus on this issue since the 1990s.

The United Nations has been gathering peer reviewed data from over 2500 scientists engaged directly in this research and the evidence has gone well beyond reasonable doubt at this point. Every numpty on the planet who wants to have their crackpot views heard on this are more than welcome to join in and twist and manipulate against the overwhelming body of genuine established scientific evidence that the climate on this planet is changing directly due to the effects of human activity.

What is the problem with humankind that it simply doesn't get that the survival of the generations to come is potentially based upon our choice to refuse or accept the evidence that human activity as it is has gone well beyond what this planet can possibly bare through time.

Who in all responsibility wants to blindly gamble with the future of all generations to come just perhaps because accepting true responsibility for our unsustainable behaviour and then changing our ways is inconvenient or requires some compromise in what can be relatively simple, bearable, equitable and potentially viable ways that we can then go on to behave so that we may help ensure life here for humankind and all still existing species into the future. We can be a blindly, selfish and self involved, short term thinking and thoughtless species or we can choose to be the ones who cared enough to turn it around for all those to come.

Exceptional post

 

[infinitely baffled]

Start what you preach at home, reduce your carbon footprint, dump your system, turn off your lights and ac, put solar panels on the roof and ride a bike, until then you're of one us nonbelievers!

david

It's as simple as changing your electricity supplier. And l found my bills went DOWN

 

[infinitely baffled]

Future generations will not care about your and others' petty rationalizations. The only thing they will care about is their survival. And their judgment of our generation will be damning.

Innit
The older generation seem incapable of showing any responsibility on this. The world is united, but in the US it is seen through the prisms of petty nationalism, distrust and selfishness that are supported by fossil fuel industry money.
Those that believe in conspiracies should investigate whether the backers of fox news are heavily invested in the fossil fuel industry, and consider if that has an influence on the perspective they receive as viewers
The future generations will indeed be appalled at how receptive those that currently wield power were to disinformation when it reinforced their selfish instincts

 

[infinitely baffled]

There's no evidence that there will be a 4 degree global rise in temperature and we only have questionable models of what might happen in that unlikely event.
david

The trends are indisputable

IPCC report: six graphs that show how we're changing the world's climate

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...limate?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

In case that doesn't work for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...orlds-climate?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Yahoo_Mail

 

[NorthStar]

I'm happy to read all the comments by all highly respected members here. It's a good subject, a mature subject, one that sees ahead instead of our own belly button.

Bonus (for fun only):

It's a great film, Life is Beautiful, and there are great lessons in many many scenes, and in this one we can see various things, among them how looking @ our own belly button is simple, and @ the same time can distract of other much important matters. Of course here in this film it is the good humor aspect of it. And there is the flip coin, the other side of it; what's inside our stomachs and what pumps the blood from our hearts, and also on the outside world, beyond that belly button which we all have.
_____

? Deforestation and Its Extreme Effect on Global Warming

"From logging, agricultural production and other economic activities, deforestation adds more atmospheric CO2 than the sum total of cars and trucks on the world's roads."

I mentioned this a long while back...Brazil and the rain forests. It's a very tough challenge. In some South American countries the poverty levels are high and the economies low...Venezuela...Brazil's contrast between the poor and the rich, the corruption in many countries of our continent, ...all contribute to a mis-managed planet and people, they cut down vital forests of our continent, of our globe.
Whatever is left is worth preserving and saving, for the future generations after us who will look upon us and @ the legacies we left them.
And we need to replant.

It's up to us, in control, in power, to aim in the directions we consider essential; quick wealth profits for only few or long-term human health benefits for everyone. Who's planet is it, who owns it? We inherited all together; tomorrow's children.

I'm surviving with a weak heart, trying to enjoy each day in peace and relaxation. ...Music helps, and when the temperature is hot it doesn't sound its best.
AC is noisy, any fans. ...And wind turbines, the noise effect on people living in their proximity? That, later on...it's coming.
_____

Extra #1: http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/techa...-successful-test/ar-BBEk8y9?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Extra #2: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4693390/Tardigrades-survivors-Earth.html

 

[ddk]

LOL Infinite! So a couple of graphs pulled out of who knows where in a tabloid paper is what you offer as indisputable proof? I guess you really want to believe ! Here's one of your prominent leaders that you guys want to hand over the world to, he makes his climate change claims in minute 2:00 but he's worth listening to from the beginning how he gets there is priceless.

Al, hope you'll watch this, they say great minds think alike .

david

The trends are indisputable

IPCC report: six graphs that show how we're changing the world's climate

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...limate?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

In case that doesn't work for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...orlds-climate?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Yahoo_Mail

 

[infinitely baffled]

LOL Infinite! So a couple of graphs pulled out of who knows where in a tabloid paper is what you offer as indisputable proof? I guess you really want to believe ! Here's one of your prominent leaders that you guys want to hand over the world to, he makes his climate change claims in minute 2:00 but he's worth listening to from the beginning how he gets there is priceless.

Al, hope you'll watch this, they say great minds think alike .

david

How wrong can you be in one post?
Let's start at the beginning....

The guardian is a highly respected broadsheet, not a tabloid as you incorrectly assert.
The source is not 'who knows where' , but the IPCC. Which as you are apparently ignorant of, is the Intergovermental Panel on Climate Change, the body that collates peer reviewed scientific papers for the benefit of policy makers and the public at large, and on whose advice climate policy is formulated. This is a peer reviewed evidence based process, so 'belief is only required if you oppose the science

'The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in recognition of the problem of global warming. Through the IPCC, climate experts from around the world synthesize the most recent climate science findings every five to seven years and present their report to the world’s political leaders. The IPCC has issued comprehensive assessments in 1990, 1996, 2001 and most recently the Fourth Assessment Report (AR4) released in 2007.

AR4 is the most comprehensive synthesis of climate change science to date. Experts from more than 130 countries contributed to this assessment, which represents six years of work. More than 450 lead authors have received input from more than 800 contributing authors, and an additional 2,500 experts reviewed the draft documents.

AR4 comprises three sections, or working groups, that deal with the scientific basis of global warming (Working Group I), its consequences (Working Group II), and options for slowing the trend (Working Group III). The IPCC released summaries of the three working group documents over the course of 2007, culminating in the publication of the final “synthesis report” at the end of the year.

The inclusive process by which IPCC assessments are developed and accepted by its members ensures exceptional scientific credibility. As such, AR4 has the potential to play a key role in informing decision makers as they shape climate policies over the next several years.

Btw I have never heard of your 'prominent leader' in the clip.
What are his scientific credentials?

 

[Bobvin]

I think the forum should BAN posts about climate change, just like religon, politics, and guns. Because for so many the subject has become a religon, and it is fully political.

A primary tenent of scientific inquiry is skepticism, and "what else might explain that" questioning. When you find manipulated data and back room (forum) collaboration to drive the conclusions, as a scientist one ought to become more skeptical, not less.