Pacific dac: Lampizator's new top of the line dac

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Todd

my entire system is tubes

the Pacific timbre and tone is about as real as it gets.
it’s the real deal
 

Alrainbow

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Dec 12, 2013
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Hello Fred,

Thanks for the post. I sent LampiNA an email yesterday regarding AXPONA as I didn't see you in the list of exhibitors. Glad to hear you will be in Chicago. I am sure I will spend some time in your room but even with that it is very hard to tell the contribution of the Pacific in the hostile hotel room environment and a total system that I am not familiar with. But for sure I can see the DAC in person and ask questions etc.

Not trying to offend the Lampiztor products when I said "loads of distortion". Just a general observation of the measurements comparing the best of SS to the best of tube gear. But again I think I may just have to put my left brain aside and embrace my right brain.

I do hope someone with direct MSB experience chimes in.

I am located in Dallas Tx. If you know any Lampi owners in this area maybe I could speak or visit with them.

Thanks,
Todd
Ok I did and sold it for a LAMPI
But really what’s your point here. Why pit products of the level of lampizator and msb against each other. there really not the same sound. I have read the spec is much better argument but while many products can measure better then the next it’s about sound in the end. also why do you feel any tube product is below a SS one ? Your comments just seem to point in one direction and it’s even one brand as well. There are plenty of Uber exp SS dacs to pick from. Did or do you own one ?
 
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BR549

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Dec 3, 2019
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First time poster - long time reader here. I bought the SuperKomputer and the Pacific that were on show at Tampa a couple of weeks ago. Needless to say, it’s been a couple of good audio weeks. I hooked up the SuperKomputer first and that made a big improvement. Over the last couple of days, I brought the Pacific online and ... shall we say - I’m impressed. Just awesome - so I’ll be reading everything and asking lots of dumb questions and enjoying the music all the way. Thanks in advance for your indulgence.
 

sbnx

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Mar 28, 2017
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Steve, Thanks for the information. Nice to know you are confident in its timbre.

Alrainbow, Yes I own the MSB Diamond V with PS etc. I am not trying to say one DAC is bad? All I was looking for was in thinking about the MSB what you think changed most dramatically -- e.g. Dynamics, soundstage, tone etc. Granted mine is a generation old. I would expect the new model sounds better. But better how? In an analytic way? As I mentioned, I am looking for musical engagement not the fact that I can count the bits as they come out of the speakers.

I am not trying to imply SS sounds better. Some SS gear sounds really bad. I have simply have never owned tube gear. It seems fussy. You guys talk about tube rolling and preamp matching issues etc. It is a little intimidating diving into that pond. With SS gear it is pretty much plug and play. Afterall, nobody ever thinks about pulling out all the transistors from an amp and replacing them with a different brand.

Either way I will get to hear the Pacific at AXPONA.

BR549 -- congratulations on your purchase. Very exciting stuff. That must be a dramatically different sound compared to the PS Audio.

Thanks,
Todd
 

bonzo75

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Almost all Lampi owners had SS dacs before, and compared to SS dacs before purchase.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Almost all Lampi owners had SS dacs before, and compared to SS dacs before purchase.
and to be fair a few went the other way. it's how things go. horses for courses, personal sonic compass, and all that stuff.
 
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bonzo75

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and to be fair a few went the other way. it's how things go. horses for courses, personal sonic compass, and all that stuff.
I disagree it is horses for courses.
 

Mike Lavigne

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I disagree it is horses for courses.
if you have a sonic vision, and you choose the path that gets closer to that vision and you think it fits your system better......

i have no illusions of you agreeing regarding Lampi <-> MSB. not exactly a revelation.
 
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User211

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Jul 28, 2014
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My SS DAC was a Meitner DA-2. I sold it for a Lampi GG2 and never looked back. Lampi is just in a different league.
The question is why.

On the face of it these triodes were never designed to be used in the manner they are being used. And that's the reason a lot of people have issues with microphony, hum etc etc.

There's no doubt on the test bench a Meitner is much better than any Lampi DAC product.

The only answer is they are subjectively better by being worse. Which is crazy but hey we are humans.
 

sbnx

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Mar 28, 2017
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There's no doubt on the test bench a Meitner is much better than any Lampi DAC product.
This is the cognitive dissonance I am having. The Meitner and MSB are some of the best measuring DAC's on the planet. Noise floor that is vanishingly low and jitter low enough that we are talking electron orbit times :). To me these things have correlated to a better sounding DAC in the sense of detail, non-fatiguing highs, spacial resolution etc. But there is just something missing that I have heard before. I don't know if the Pacific is the answer but the way people describe its sonic qualities it is what I'm after.

Mike used the term "Sonic Vision" and I think that is right on. I know what I want to hear. The question is how to get it. My current system is closer than I have ever been but I want to turn it up to 11.
 

Alrainbow

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Dec 12, 2013
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Do you have analog ? If so vinyl or tape or both ?
 

bonzo75

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This is the cognitive dissonance I am having. The Meitner and MSB are some of the best measuring DAC's on the planet. Noise floor that is vanishingly low and jitter low enough that we are talking electron orbit times :). To me these things have correlated to a better sounding DAC in the sense of detail, non-fatiguing highs, spacial resolution etc. But there is just something missing that I have heard before. I don't know if the Pacific is the answer but the way people describe its sonic qualities it is what I'm after.

Mike used the term "Sonic Vision" and I think that is right on. I know what I want to hear. The question is how to get it. My current system is closer than I have ever been but I want to turn it up to 11.
I find Lampi way more detailed. When you are playing large orchestra, each orchestral section and instruments have their independent tonal colors and decay, instead of a flat grey tone. The drive and energy is much more, as is large stage and dynamic range. The 242 Lampi for me leads to the highest dynamic range, nuance and inflection in audio. Lampi is not used for a beautiful valve sound only like Kondo is, though if that is someone's choice they can tune it for that's

To your previous comment about matching, it is not as complex as it reads. Essentially you need to start with 2 to 3 pairs of output valves and one rectifier. If the 242 works you won't need any more. Else you can try the Lampi 45s or PX25, it takes moments to change, and the differences due to set up compatibility are pretty obvious. If 242 sounds bad, just take it out.

As you get into the Lampi group neighbors will lend you valves to try
 

Alrainbow

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Dec 12, 2013
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My point to try a lampizator is the tubes allow to better tune to your liking. It allows you to make it how you want it. when I had my stack a few years it was at the time the best digital I had or heard it was top of the food chain. It was above many other dacs I tried. Back before LAMPI made a gg or pac or TRP. They were just a big 7. I had made to order a head dac this means it had a driver tube as well as recti and output tubes
It had output transformers for the headphones. I drove Lukas nuts making it as I wanted a very very neutral sound. Back then many dacs were warm of neutral. The msb was the fist Dac to be neutral it was above the rest is a much less valed sound. When lampizator was done in 3 trips back to Poland it then was an equal in many ways but over all msb at 45k 5 or more years ago was better. But it was not a wow anymore
Then lampizator made one more mod for me. Then the msb was a preamp only.
Two years Later msb offered a new usb upgrade it got better
Now on par
Then I got a gg2 it was above it
Then msb did one last usb update again it got better but in the end I sold it.
My new pac , gg2 and TRP are much better.
I heard the msb sel 1 then 2. The one was short lived and I felt it was a v in a new box. Vince told me to wait on the sel 1 for an update lol. It was a re work. now is it better then a pac ? For me at this level it’s how mike L says it. What do you want or like. the one way any LAMPI has it over all the ss dacs is tubes the very thing your afraid of. Once you hear it you will know of its for you.
 

Golum

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Jun 7, 2018
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Once you hear it you will know if its for you.
Key words Al...same happened to me...got one to hear (DerSiebener) and there is just no way back
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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The question is why.

There's no doubt on the test bench a Meitner is much better than any Lampi DAC product.

The only answer is they are subjectively better by being worse.
Good question indeed, but these questions are as old as the hills and still don't have clear answers. It's easy to say that all electrical devices do is amplify or transduct a signal and the most relevant parameters that determine how well they do that are power bandwidth, distortion and S/N. Those we can measure. So the obvious conclusion, at least for me, is that we just don't have a good handle on what the other physical attributes are that are yet to be defined and/or measured, which are a satisfactory surrogate for sound quality. This why most of us can probably agree that in the end, the final arbiter for what we like is listening, and not measurements. Nothing new here. This has been beat to death many times over.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Good question indeed, but these questions are as old as the hills and still don't have clear answers. It's easy to say that all electrical devices do is amplify or transduct a signal and the most relevant parameters that determine how well they do that are power bandwidth, distortion and S/N. Those we can measure. So the obvious conclusion, at least for me, is that we just don't have a good handle on what the other physical attributes are that are yet to be defined and/or measured, which are a satisfactory surrogate for sound quality. This why most of us can probably agree that in the end, the final arbiter for what we like is listening, and not measurements. Nothing new here. This has been beat to death many times over.

For me the answer is simple...it is the tube sound these DACs have and the magic that they convey seems far more realistic for my ears than a SS DAC but I am biased as my entire system is tubes. For me this was a welcome discovery as was the abilities I now have to adjust the tube sound by using the gain control on my Pacific after I have tuned my Lamm preamp to my desired listening volume
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Moving up from the GG1 and GG2 to my new Pacific, which is probably still breaking in at about 50 hrs. On the clock, all I can think is holy crap. I’ve never heard anything like this before. This is a step or two beyond the GG2. I’m not thinking about tube distortion. I’d venture a guess that my old Pass XA30.8 had more 2nd order distortion than the PAC. Super resolved and clean. Impressive micro and macro dynamics. If someone is looking for Tube euphony it’s not here, at least in any traditional way. Where the PAC excels beyond the best SS DACs I’ve heard, is in the dynamics both large and small. Very alive and 3D. That phrase means too many things in audio. Really you just have to hear it.

Lampi Tube maintenance is a non issue. Buy a good set, drop them in, maybe change them 10 years from now. Much is made about rolling here, which is a real thing, if you are looking for something to do. It’s not a requirement.

My suggestion is to sell what you need to, buy a PAC. The rest will follow.
 

bonzo75

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And please don't try to evaluate at a hifi show that's silly
 

sbnx

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Mar 28, 2017
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I don’t have analog – way to fussy.

Some good take aways about the sound and advice. This is nice to know that this machine is not about that super warm, mushy, rolled off tube sound that some people adore.

“Lampi is not used for a beautiful valve sound only”

“lampizator is the tubes allow to better tune to your liking”

“Once you hear it you will know if its for you”

“Super resolved and clean. Impressive micro and macro dynamics. If Someone is looking for Tube euphony it’s not here”

“Lampi Tube maintenance is a non issue. Buy a good set, drop them in, maybe change them 10 years from now”

“sell what you need to, buy a PAC. The rest will follow.”

“don't try to evaluate at a hifi show”
 

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