Paleo

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I mentioned in one of the audio threads that i started eating according to the "Paleo" approach. (Someone, I think it was Rbbt, had made a comment about how no artificial food can be good for you, and that prompted my initial comment, and a groundswell of demand :) for a separate thread on this topic). So here it is. I'm not doing this as hardcore as some- who eat only raw stuff or avoid even certain veggies, etc. but the gist (and there are countless websites and blogs devoted to this is as follows):
You get rid of the starchy stuff- no bread, potatoes, pasta, rice- and starchy veggies and beans. You don't eat dairy- that means no cheese. And you avoid processed sugar. (Sugar naturally found in fruits is OK).
What do I eat? Breakfast- fruit ( a nice mix of various fruit and berries), eggs, lean meat- pork good, bacon- too many chemicals and too much grease- no sausage either. Lunch and dinner- pretty much anything as follows: salads, steaks (I prefer an aged bone in rib eye, but like lamb steak, pork chops, etc.); seafood, mainly grilled fish (I'm allergic to shellfish, but I think that's ok), chicken (not fried, and not greasy preparations), veggies of all sorts, but not the starchy ones; soups, all kinds. There is even ice cream that's sorta OK- since it's made from coconut milk. Raw nuts like almonds- good for snacking. Beef jerky is for some reason ok, but i find it of limited appeal. Etc. You get the idea. Sorta like Atkins, but not exactly- Atkins is all protein i think, and you can eat stuff like bacon, maybe even dairy, i don't know.
What's the point? Well, for me, it was about getting healthy. I had to quit smoking cigarettes after 40 years. I smoked unfiltered Camels, various roll em ups from Dutchland (shag) and Turkey, liked the high octane nicotine. Doc put the brakes on after a pretty serious stroke scare.
I knew I'd get fat as a house if I just stopped smoking and kept eating and didn't exercise. So, I went through a pretty rigorous stop smoking program which I'll be happy to explain elsewhere, and got a trainer and started going to the gym every day. I started hanging with the cross-fit folks- not that i was in any shape to do that stuff- but I learned some basic stuff and did it every day. Cardio, weights, pilates, boxing, fast walking, climbing over big bolders, chin ups, etc. Gym: at least 5 days a week, plus cardio.
And, in the process, the cross fit people turned me on to this 'paleo' thing. I did it as part of a group 'challenge' for 40 days, starting last July and just continued. I don't miss any of the stuff i'm not eating, and hell, if I want to order french fries with my steak, cool. (I have done it a couple times, and just sorta feel a little grossed out after eating 1/2 of them). I do miss pizza sometimes, but if it's the right pizza, and i'm in the mood, I guess I'd have a slice. Whatever.
I went from about 232-5 (I used to be 6'1" and could carry it, but i was still a large dude) to 180 from December 2010 til now. That's about a year and a half. I didn't go on a crash diet.
I feel and look younger, my skin is much better (probably from getting off the ciggies, which give you a pallor) and I have more energy, feel way less bogged down after a meal. Granted, dropping 50plus pounds is going make you feel much lighter, but the effect came on far sooner than when I dropped all the weight.
The key, i think, is not just the diet, as such, but in combo with the exercise- I work out intensively, call it a 40-50 minute work out, but i'm really pushing myself. Not just trotting on a treadmill, reading or listening to music with earbuds.
I don't know the science of this thing. But it has been good. Am I missing anything vital? Dunno.
The theory (and the concept of 'paleolithic' or caveman eating) comes from the notion that the human body was not meant to process the vast amount of synthentic, processed, food. And frankly, as I said, my body doesn't feel like it is missing anything, in fact, it feels like I'm 'burning clean fuel' if that makes any sense.
End of endorsement. Others who are doing this, have done it, think its wrong, or otherwise, are welcome to comment.
Best,
Bill Hart

PS. While i don't buy everything organic, or health food store 'certified' i eat pretty high quality stuff. Locally grown if possible in season. Highest quality meats, wild, rather than farmed fish, chicken, etc.
 
Last edited:

treitz3

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Bill, I am in the beginning process of what you have been doing. My hat is off to you! My initial weight is unknown as I never weighed myself. That said, I have lost 4 belt sizes and life is getting better everyday. What you typed here rings a solid note to me. To others reading this? Maybe not so much but I for one appreciate what you took the time to type up for us. I'm proud of you. Not because you are a member of the forum and not because I may have chatted with you on occasion. I'm proud of you because you took the initiative and made your life better......and shared that fact with others.

Like I said, my hat is off to you! Keep up the good lifestyle. :)

Tom
 

MylesBAstor

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rbbert

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View attachment 4590

One reason Paleo doesn't work.

Why do you say that? Isn't the "Paleo diet" (as described here, I'm not totally familiar with its details) much closer to the low-carb and low-glycemic index diets than to the low-fat diet?
 

Bill Hart

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Bill, I am in the beginning process of what you have been doing. My hat is off to you! My initial weight is unknown as I never weighed myself. That said, I have lost 4 belt sizes and life is getting better everyday. What you typed here rings a solid note to me. To others reading this? Maybe not so much but I for one appreciate what you took the time to type up for us. I'm proud of you. Not because you are a member of the forum and not because I may have chatted with you on occasion. I'm proud of you because you took the initiative and made your life better......and shared that fact with others.

Like I said, my hat is off to you! Keep up the good lifestyle. :)

Tom
Thanks, Tom. Really had no choice, given the ciggies, and health issues caused by them. Once that decision was made (the hardest part), the rest sort of followed. But, what also follows, when you make a decision to change something pretty ingrained in your life (like smoking) is that you feel stronger about your overall attitude toward change and self- one thing sort of leads to another. It also helped me reach a decision to retire from the active practice of law after 31 years and start doing what I truly love- the creative and business sides of music and content delivery. Also, while we had long talked about moving to a smaller 'university town' (where i could teach, something I also love and enjoy life in a smaller goldfish bowl than NYC), we finally made the decision to move and thus, my eventual move to Austin, etc. There's all sorts of positive cross-reinforcement. It's also nice to be physically active, because it is not just a great stress reliever in the immediate sense of taking out aggression or making you physically tired, but I feel better emotionally after working out- the chemical changes that Myles could probably explain. So, all positive and the positives tip the balance in making it easier, rather than harder as time goes on.
 

MylesBAstor

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Why do you say that? Isn't the "Paleo diet" (as described here, I'm not totally familiar with its details) much closer to the low-carb and low-glycemic index diets than to the low-fat diet?

Please read the research article. These diets are not alike. And no, the similarities betweeen Paleo and low GI (low GI is at best a passable way of evaluating things; glycemic load is the preferred measure but even that is not perfect) are minimal. The low carb is more like the Atkins diet. Interestingly, we know less about how our forefathers ate than we think we do. Right down to finding heart disease in a well preserved human fossil in the Alps a few years ago.

When push comes to shove, all this crap is correlations, not cause-effect. If all these diets worked, how come we're as a country, the fattest we've ever been? Not to mention a diet that works for me won't work for you. One of the primary tenets of any training or eating program is individuality.

Pick up the ebook Eat, Stop, Eat by Brad Pilon. (http://eatstopeat.com/) He points out that even the so called touted advantages of the Mediterranean diet may be misattributed and wrong. The Mediterranean diet may have nothing at all to do with fish and healthy fats but intermittent fasting, a factor that the original Mediterranean diet authors failed to take into account.
 

JackD201

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so, i went through a pretty rigorous stop smoking program which i'll be happy to explain elsewhere

interested!!!!
 

FrantzM

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Hi

Few things. I am not sure I could take the Paleo approach. Right now my diet is what I would call a somewhat vegetarian;
Mostly green,leafy vegetables
Fat Mostly in the form of Coconut Oil
Proteins: Fish, Eggs daily (free range) and Whey Protein Isolate at least 40 gms/day often 100 gms
Fruits, lots of fruits...
Nuts
Regular Exercise peak 8 and a lame effort at strength training. I would like to improve on this . I do weight but the results in term of muscle mass are not that great.


No Milk, no Pasta, no bread, no potato, no rice, no starchy anything. No sugar... Weight which never was a problem really stays around 170 at 6'1"

I wouldn't mind ways to improve my current diet nor would I mind a little more muscle mass.

on this Myles could you tell us in English :) why Paleo doesn't work? Call me lazy but I only glanced at the conclusion and they align with what I have learned this past 7 years. The pervasive Low-fat, High Carb diets do not provide the benefits most people think they do, good fats are essential. Carbohydrates should be reduced in anyone for optimum health etc.
I would like more people to chime in. This would concern many of us in our early 50's and beyond as to make the rest of our journey interesting. I am also interested in anti-aging protocols.
 

Bill Hart

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I do not have the scientific/biological expertise that Myles does, but will read the article. In the meantime, a few anecdotal observations:
1. I am not starving myself, and i don't think this is about reducing caloric intake per se (although I probably eat less, I am not walking around hungry).
2. I don't eat 3 square meals in the traditional sense, but more like 5 smaller ones.
3. I don't eat late at nite any more.
4. I haven't really eaten junk food and crappy fried food, doughy stuff for a long time anyway (I do like a really good piece of bread, or killer rustic pizza, but i had already long ago eliminated 'junk food' from my diet-so what i'm doing now is really more an extension of that)
5. the key for me, anyway (although i think this is true generally) is the combination of more sensible food intake with consistent, rigorous exercise.
6. I have no desire to 'stop' or 'get off' this 'diet' in the sense that I did it to lose weight quickly. The loss occurred over the course of 1.5 years, and in combo with exercise. It is now a lifestyle for me, rather than a 'diet to lose weight' to then resume eating fatty or starchy foods and become sedentary (again).
7. I think the prevalence of overweight Americans has to do with: eating garbage food- fast food, bagels with cream cheese, burgers and fries, etc and zero exercise. I'm not talking about a lame 'let's walk on the treadmill' a couple times of week, i'm talking about kicking your own ass, once you are able to do it (I was really out of shape and had to build up gradually, both stamina and breathing).
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

Few things. I am not sure I could take the Paleo approach. Right now my diet is what I would call a somewhat vegetarian;
Mostly green,leafy vegetables
Fat Mostly in the form of Coconut Oil
Proteins: Fish, Eggs daily (free range) and Whey Protein Isolate at least 40 gms/day often 100 gms
Fruits, lots of fruits...
Nuts
Regular Exercise peak 8 and a lame effort at strength training. I would like to improve on this . I do weight but the results in term of muscle mass are not that great.


No Milk, no Pasta, no bread, no potato, no rice, no starchy anything. No sugar... Weight which never was a problem really stays around 170 at 6'1"

I wouldn't mind ways to improve my current diet nor would I mind a little more muscle mass.

on this Myles could you tell us in English :) why Paleo doesn't work? Call me lazy but I only glanced at the conclusion and they align with what I have learned this past 7 years. The pervasive Low-fat, High Carb diets do not provide the benefits most people think they do, good fats are essential. Carbohydrates should be reduced in anyone for optimum health etc.
I would like more people to chime in. This would concern many of us in our early 50's and beyond as to make the rest of our journey interesting. I am also interested in anti-aging protocols.

Perhaps I was being a bit too specific. Pretty much all diets are failures. Yes, they all initially work because they put you in a caloric deficit. But no one can adhere long term to the diet.

Download this and see what you think!

http://www.stumptuous.com/****-calories
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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I do not have the scientific/biological expertise that Myles does, but will read the article. In the meantime, a few anecdotal observations:
1. I am not starving myself, and i don't think this is about reducing caloric intake per se (although I probably eat less, I am not walking around hungry).
2. I don't eat 3 square meals in the traditional sense, but more like 5 smaller ones.
3. I don't eat late at nite any more.
4. I haven't really eaten junk food and crappy fried food, doughy stuff for a long time anyway (I do like a really good piece of bread, or killer rustic pizza, but i had already long ago eliminated 'junk food' from my diet-so what i'm doing now is really more an extension of that)
5. the key for me, anyway (although i think this is true generally) is the combination of more sensible food intake with consistent, rigorous exercise.
6. I have no desire to 'stop' or 'get off' this 'diet' in the sense that I did it to lose weight quickly. The loss occurred over the course of 1.5 years, and in combo with exercise. It is now a lifestyle for me, rather than a 'diet to lose weight' to then resume eating fatty or starchy foods and become sedentary (again).
7. I think the prevalence of overweight Americans has to do with: eating garbage food- fast food, bagels with cream cheese, burgers and fries, etc and zero exercise. I'm not talking about a lame 'let's walk on the treadmill' a couple times of week, i'm talking about kicking your own ass, once you are able to do it (I was really out of shape and had to build up gradually, both stamina and breathing).

It's about volume. :(

http://mindlesseating.org/

http://www.amazon.com/Mindless-Eati...id=1343304945&sr=8-1&keywords=mindless+eating

http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/discoveries.html

http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/outreach/large-plates.html
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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View attachment 4590

One reason Paleo doesn't work.

Alright, read through it, though i didn't take notes and didn't review the protocols for the study- but the gist seemed to support notion that a low carb diet would increase REE which as i understand it, is one component of what is commonly referred to as one's 'metabolism,' and that having a 'higher' energy expenditure was better ( I did get a little confused around the energy expended to digest, and how that affects weight loss, but assume that digestion diverts energy away from what would otherwise be 'burned' toward weight loss in unscientific terms). There were potential chemical and possibly health downsides to such a diet that were raised. And more profoundly, the concern expressed about reducing food intake in the form of a 'crash diet' would not last because the body found ways around that to store fat, and because the will to maintain such a diet, long term, was likely to diminish.
But, in all, i don't see this contradicting my regime- more control over the amount and quality of the food, considerable exercise in combination with a more sensible eating program, and staying away from trash food, as well as stuff that is heavy on carbs.
What am I missing? (I'm sure alot, but in practical terms?)
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
Alright, read through it, though i didn't take notes and didn't review the protocols for the study- but the gist seemed to support notion that a low carb diet would increase REE which as i understand it, is one component of what is commonly referred to as one's 'metabolism,' and that having a 'higher' energy expenditure was better ( I did get a little confused around the energy expended to digest, and how that affects weight loss, but assume that digestion diverts energy away from what would otherwise be 'burned' toward weight loss in unscientific terms). There were potential chemical and possibly health downsides to such a diet that were raised. And more profoundly, the concern expressed about reducing food intake in the form of a 'crash diet' would not last because the body found ways around that to store fat, and because the will to maintain such a diet, long term, was likely to diminish.
But, in all, i don't see this contradicting my regime- more control over the amount and quality of the food, considerable exercise in combination with a more sensible eating program, and staying away from trash food, as well as stuff that is heavy on carbs.
What am I missing? (I'm sure alot, but in practical terms?)

The gist of the article is that a calorie is not just a calorie or that flat earther, RD way of looking a food intake eg. calories in, calories out (and as I previously posted, one could see marked differences in wt gain for isocaloric intake of protein vs carbs. There are other ramifications about how you eat, in particular as this study addresses, levels of inflammatory markers in the body. The low GI diet is the one that has the lowest levels of inflammatory markers. As you may know, the latest thinking is that many diseases, included among them diabetes, cancer, CHD and others are all triggered by long term, low level inflammation in the body. Hence the bodies need for antioxidants such as those found in green tea, berries and fruits, etc.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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The gist of the article is that a calorie is not just a calorie or that flat earther, RD way of looking a food intake eg. calories in, calories out (and as I previously posted, one could see marked differences in wt gain for isocaloric intake of protein vs carbs. There are other ramifications about how you eat, in particular as this study addresses, levels of inflammatory markers in the body. The low GI diet is the one that has the lowest levels of inflammatory markers. As you may know, the latest thinking is that many diseases, included among them diabetes, cancer, CHD and others are all triggered by long term, low level inflammation in the body. Hence the bodies need for antioxidants such as those found in green tea, berries and fruits, etc.
I'm good with all of that. thanks, myles. years ago, a childhood friend who became a DNA researcher gave me one of the papers he wrote. it made my head spin. I can work through some of this stuff, not because i have any particular expertise or even knowledge in biology, chemistry or the like, but because I try to reduce it to a simple level so my mind can get around it.(sorta typical of a lawyer mind to learn something you know nothing about). your summary re inflammation markers and relation to disease helped me understand what I was missing.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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The gist of the article is that a calorie is not just a calorie or that flat earther, RD way of looking a food intake eg. calories in, calories out (and as I previously posted, one could see marked differences in wt gain for isocaloric intake of protein vs carbs. There are other ramifications about how you eat, in particular as this study addresses, levels of inflammatory markers in the body. The low GI diet is the one that has the lowest levels of inflammatory markers. As you may know, the latest thinking is that many diseases, included among them diabetes, cancer, CHD and others are all triggered by long term, low level inflammation in the body. Hence the bodies need for antioxidants such as those found in green tea, berries and fruits, etc.

OK, I misunderstood your reasoning about why the paleo diet "doesn't work". If I understand you correctly, it "doesn't work" in the same sense that many proposed weight loss diets "don't work"? That is, they are essentially unhealthy diets for the long term? No arguments from me there. I personally feel better when I manage to adhere to a (basically) low GI lowish-fat diet with several helpings of fresh fruits and vegies per day, but like most I tend to stray. Fortunately my level of regular exercise allows me quite a bit of leeway.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
along the lines of what Myles said, one anesthesiologist buddy of mine (who BTW climbed Everest) said to me that the reason there are so many diets in the world, is that none of them work :)

IMO what Bill did may have been called Paleo but looking beyond was rather more a life style change that resulted in the weight loss over 1.5 years

I hooked up with a nutritionist 3 years ago and began a strict diet and exercise program resulting to date in a 63 lb weight loss which I have maintained

I agree with Frantz that "good" fats in one's diet is essential. I would also go so far as saying that we also need a small amount of saturated fat each day (such as a tablespoonful of butter)

Unlike Frantz, I do believe that milk is essential. I just drink non fat or on rare occasions 1 % milk.

I also found that reducing the frequency with which we dine out was a huge help.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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