Peter A.’s System: A Perspective on Natural Sound

ack

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May 6, 2010
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And I thought WBF is full of empty content - a vacuum. But I have to agree with the following, because technically there is no such thing as "nothing", it all comes into being from energy, and energy is never "nothing", it's something. And since energy is natural, everything is natural; or is it

Though he's received much critique for the sale, Garau argues that his work of art isn't "nothing," but is instead a "vacuum."

"The vacuum is nothing more than a space full of energy, and even if we empty it and there is nothing left, according to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, that 'nothing' has a weight," Garau said of the statue according to as.com. "Therefore, it has energy that is condensed and transformed into particles, that is, into us."
 

PeterA

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He sold the sculpture for $18,000 plus a certificate of authenticity. This reminds me of the interconnects that sell for $18,000 with a certificate of authenticity. The only difference is, instead of looking like nothing, the cables are supposed to sound like nothing. And in both cases, the maker is smiling.
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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Exactly, David. Your Utah presentations allow the opportunity to listen - what I call ostensive or experiential definition - the system describes itself to the listener. No need for intermediary words from you. The listener can bring his own words but likely he won't need any words at all. I also agree that 'natural' encapsulates the experience and the system - I have zero issue with that one word.

The system speaks to the listener whereas the reader is the audience of the writer. The latter is a poorer though necessary medium as not everyone can go to Utah. The glossary issue only comes into play when the writer, the reviewer, adulates characteristics that are not on the source.
Demonstration isn't limited to Utah, it's done in people's homes mostly with their existing systems it's part of the conversation. Tang's never set foot here nor any of the people in the AS2000 installation thread. Peter figured it out in his own system before visiting. Steve was here but whatever change went on in his system was at his place there was no equipment sale, natural sound is demonstrable.

david
 
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Lagonda

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He sold the sculpture for $18,000 plus a certificate of authenticity. This reminds me of the interconnects that sell for $18,000 with a certificate of authenticity. The only difference is, instead of looking like nothing, the cables are supposed to sound like nothing. And in both cases, the maker is smiling.
But Peter, these interconnets are often God like in their invisible quality, they often have names of old Nordic Gods ! ;)
 
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microstrip

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He sold the sculpture for $18,000 plus a certificate of authenticity. This reminds me of the interconnects that sell for $18,000 with a certificate of authenticity. The only difference is, instead of looking like nothing, the cables are supposed to sound like nothing. And in both cases, the maker is smiling.

Peter,
Fortunately you will be here to tell everyone they sound colored ... ;)
 
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PeterA

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Peter,
Fortunately you will be here to tell everyone they sound colored ... ;)

Ha, good one Fransisco. I have only owned one pair of expensive interconnects. I think you are familiar with them. I thought they were great, until I didn't. We don't have to dwell on that. It was a learning process and an expensive one. I'm sure you can relate.
 

morricab

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The Absolute Sound.
I think there is some misconceptions around what HP originally meant by this terminology. Those of you who read TAS back in the day would realize that HP was a true seeker of natural sound and his philosophical musings were very valuable in shaping the whole discussion of what SHOULD hifi sound like.

For me, his most basic axiom, which I still refer to today, Was that “absolute sound” is real acoustic instruments in real space. There is no other true reference. Of course part of reality was finding recordings that provided a reasonable proxy because one cannot get live (unless you use a live feed) into the home playback. Still, one needs a mental construct or “gestalt” of the real thing to frame the success or failure of one’s system.
Now, succeeded and failed to various degrees over the decades to try to expand beyond this basic axiom and this caused some controversy. He was really interested in how different gear can sound tonally so different despite similar measurements and hit upon dynamics as a final frontier...very interesting articles if you can find them.
Suffice to say, I in many ways adhere still to be he basic legacy of what TAS was originally and not the trash it has become where it was ruined by Harley and Valin, who never really took the axiom to heart and twisted it to their own limited understanding.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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What cables do you use Francisco?

Which didn't he? At one point when he realized lamm weren't driving his speakers sufficiently he actually posted if some cables could correct that
 

microstrip

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What cables do you use Francisco?

Those I use more often are listed in my signature - the old Crystal Dreamline. Also a Stealth Dream speaker cable - I always liked the Crystal's and got the inspiration to listen to the Stealth from the pictures of Tuchan system. I like a lot the Transparent Audio Opus, but can't use them now as they are in need of re-tuning - due to customs processing it is a unfortunately a time consuming process for owners living outside the US.

In order to keep a difference reference I own plenty of Mogami's speaker and ICs of several types - they are very inexpensive and surely, the famous CC's I got from David.
 
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microstrip

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Which didn't he? At one point when he realized lamm weren't driving his speakers sufficiently he actually posted if some cables could correct that

Again, the usual sins of omission and manipulation. I posted that the TA Opus and Dreamline were poor matches with the ML3/XLF and asked for advice on a more adequate cable to connect them.

I will let Vladimir Lamm, David and Steve discuss the Alexandria S2/XLF match with the Lamm ML3 with you, I will not post private opinions. And they are more patient than me ... ;)
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Again, the usual sins of omission and manipulation. I posted that the TA Opus and Dreamline were poor matches with the ML3/XLF and asked for advice on a more adequate cable to connect them.

I will let Vladimir Lamm, David and Steve discuss the Alexandria S2/XLF match with the Lamm ML3 with you, I will not post private opinions. And they are more patient than me ... ;)
IMO the ML3's pair better with the X2 than with the XLF. That was one reason I never moved up to the XLF.
 

PeterA

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Again, the usual sins of omission and manipulation. I posted that the TA Opus and Dreamline were poor matches with the ML3/XLF and asked for advice on a more adequate cable to connect them.

I will let Vladimir Lamm, David and Steve discuss the Alexandria S2/XLF match with the Lamm ML3 with you, I will not post private opinions. And they are more patient than me ... ;)

The XLF It’s becoming famous again from a much watched and discussed and anticipated video from an Audio blogger on audio shark. You should watch him and see what amplifier he is using and what cables. You can hear the results on his videos.
 

morricab

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IMO the ML3's pair better with the X2 than with the XLF. That was one reason I never moved up to the XLF.
Probably a wise move...I think the electronics are more important than a small step up in the speaker...you would have taken a bigger sound hit by having to abandon the ML3 I think.
 
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Steve Williams

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Probably a wise move...I think the electronics are more important than a small step up in the speaker...you would have taken a bigger sound hit by having to abandon the ML3 I think.
Precisely my point. Even at 95 DB efficiency my ML3’s are working hard
 

morricab

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Precisely my point. Even at 95 DB efficiency my ML3’s are working hard
The original X1 was a quite SET friendly speaker...sounded phenomenal with KR Audio amps...changed my view about what was possible with a Wilson speaker.
 

microstrip

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IMO the ML3's pair better with the X2 than with the XLF. That was one reason I never moved up to the XLF.

Can you tell us how do you reached this conclusion?

The Grandslam was more efficient and had a significantly higher impedance, but the X2/XLF are very similar.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Can you tell us how do you reached this conclusion?

The Grandslam was more efficient and had a significantly higher impedance, but the X2/XLF are very similar.
some personal conversations with some Wilson people several years ago as I did like the silk dome tweeter and I guess the fact that I love the way the ML3 sounds with my X2's and you don't like the way the ML3 sounds with the XLF:D

The Lamm Signature series is a keeper in my system as I have said so many times.
 

gian60

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There are different kind and level of natural sound
around 7/8 years ago i brought to home of my dear friend with Alexandria X2,Krell pre and amp Evo One,dcs dac and borrow for 2 weeks
my passive preamp Audiotekne 9501,Mono amp Leak TL 12 plus with original Mullard tubes,Audiotekne cables and one way speaker with his stand that i paid 800 euro from my friend producer.
My friend was shocked and never listen in his life a more natural sound,with all compromise for low power,and deep bass lacking.
Listened only this system for 2 weeks and when i brought home cannot listen his system and changed all except speaker,too bigand difficult to sell.

For me the problem is that 99% of systems i listened in my life from people,big shop,show and Munich in many years that is not natural.
Are hifi system,no bad but no natural.

Yamamura,Imai, Sakuma and Endo around 1989/1998 teach me some how can be a natural sound.
Its a sound that come out very easy from speaker without effortless,speaker disappear and let you shocked for the sound you listen,correct timbre and can listen for many hours without became tired.
Sorry cannot explain very well in English.
 

Lampie519

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I collected Leak amps when i was a "kid" , but i have outgrown them... it is a good starter amp though.
Here a picture of my set in 1987..
 

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