Power delivery from panel to component

microstrip

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Really? Because when H and L flank it, it suppresses the ground field. It isn't perfect because the inductance is mediocre, but not everyone can afford $50/ft on top of tearing up all their walls.

Unfortunately I do not have the article with all the measurements with me. But for minimal magnetically induced noise we should have a a twisted L-N pair with a ground wire not too close. Twisting the three wires, as some people do, is not desirable.

While I look for the complete paper please see: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19656 . I quote from it:

"To minimize induction of noise into the ground wire, there are two strategies: 1. Because, at any instant in time they carry the same current in opposite directions, put these two wires as close to each other as possible so their magnetic fields neutralize/cancel each other. Tight twisting is the most practical way to do this; and 2. Put the “victim” ground wire as far away as possible from the current-carrying pair. Because the magnetic fields are very intense close to this pair, the closer the ground wire gets to them, the more critical its exact positioning becomes"
 

microstrip

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Sorry, my post was directed at post #14 about the rule being a mistake.

I agree that running the SG between the H & N is a good thing. It's something that Bill Whitlock had been suggesting for a long time, but he had to write an AES paper before I could figure it out.

It is not a mistake from the noise point of view, but violates the NEC - see slides 34 and 35 of Bill Whitlok presentation " An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing".
 

Folsom

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Unfortunately I do not have the article with all the measurements with me. But for minimal magnetically induced noise we should have a a twisted L-N pair with a ground wire not too close. Twisting the three wires, as some people do, is not desirable.

While I look for the complete paper please see: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19656 . I quote from it:

"To minimize induction of noise into the ground wire, there are two strategies: 1. Because, at any instant in time they carry the same current in opposite directions, put these two wires as close to each other as possible so their magnetic fields neutralize/cancel each other. Tight twisting is the most practical way to do this; and 2. Put the “victim” ground wire as far away as possible from the current-carrying pair. Because the magnetic fields are very intense close to this pair, the closer the ground wire gets to them, the more critical its exact positioning becomes"

But it's a catch 22 when the ground is out dangling on it's own, it becomes susceptible to being an antenna for other things.
 

Speedskater

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Oct 1, 2010
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It is not a mistake from the noise point of view, but violates the NEC - see slides 34 and 35 of Bill Whitlok presentation " An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing".
Now I have totally lost track of what you are trying to say.

Those two slides reference back to the Bill Whitlock paper:

"Ground Loops: The Rest of the Story"
Bill Whitlock, AES Fellow and Jamie Fox, P.E.

this link may not work for everyone.

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/...est-of-Story-Whitlock-Fox-Generic-Version.pdf
 

Speedskater

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ALRIGHT. You get really caught up in providing information and start to "speak-over" people without providing context to reference of whom or what you're speaking to. They appear like general statements that way as well, which makes it harder to understand. I appreciate your contributions but don't be a robot plz.
My typing is poor and my spelling is worse, so I try to keep my responses as short as possible.
 

microstrip

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microstrip

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The Whitlock slides and papers are understandable, but I still don't get your point in post #14?

Because point 2. - "Put the “victim” ground wire as far away as possible from the current-carrying pair" is not compatible with your advice of post #13. Romex is not adequate for audio rooms.
 

gshelley

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Jan 10, 2011
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Hi Peter,
im curious, did you do further experiments on your power setup?

I am prepping to build a new room and am considering power setup options. I have some previous experience where I ran dedicated lines (10awg, solid core, twisted pair, isolated ground, steel conduit) in my last room. Found isolated grounding did not impact noise or sonics.
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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Sadly my electrician got too busy and disappeared. Can’t get a hold of him so I’m looking for a new electrician to do the installation.
 

gshelley

Member Sponsor
Jan 10, 2011
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Austin, TX
Well that’s a shame. i know you want to sort these questions out within your setup.

i have a few months and intend to keep exploring this area. Will be great to hear your results when you do find an electrician.
 
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