Pre-amp Advice

[cpp]

I looking to purchase another pre-amp to match up with a ATI 2000 SS amp and I've been looking at the Conrad-Johnson Classic SE, Rogue 99 and the older Audio Research LS 16. The only reason I ask, is because these pre-amps are located within 50 miles of my location... Any opinions on these pre-amps

 

[cpp]

31 views and nobody has an opinion,

Looking for some guidance here about how these pre-amps on how they compare to each other as far as sound stage, dynamics etc.... Will be connecting a Sony XA5400es and a Mytex DAC for a source.

 

[Andre Marc]

31 views and nobody has an opinion,

Looking for some guidance here about how these pre-amps on how they compare to each other as far as sound stage, dynamics etc.... Will be connecting a Sony XA5400es and a Mytex DAC for a source.

I like the Rogue 99.

Have you thought about an ARC SP16L?

 

[Andre Marc]

I looking to purchase another pre-amp to match up with a ATI 2000 SS amp and I've been looking at the Conrad-Johnson Classic SE, Rogue 99 and the older Audio Research LS 16. The only reason I ask, is because these pre-amps are located within 50 miles of my location... Any opinions on these pre-amps

Are you only buying used/local?

 

[cpp]

Are you only buying used/local?

At the moment yes, since I can audition each unit at my home. The Rogue really sounded dynamic when I heard at the dealers business. But he had the pre-amp paired with a mono pair of rogue tubes.I was going to pair this with SS.

 

[Cascais]

The three preamps you are considering are all good products and your ears should be the final judge. Audition each in your system and the one that sounds best wins.

 

[Andre Marc]

At the moment yes, since I can audition each unit at my home. The Rogue really sounded dynamic when I heard at the dealers business. But he had the pre-amp paired with a mono pair of rogue tubes.I was going to pair this with SS.

Rogue stuff matches well with SS from experience.

 

[JackD201]

I owned an LS16 long time ago. I sold it within a month I think. I found it lean and dry compared to my two SS pres at the time a Pass Aleph P and a ML 380.

I haven't or don't recall ever having heard the others. I'm not familiar with the ATI either.

 

[mep]

I owned an LS16 long time ago. I sold it within a month I think. I found it lean and dry compared to my two SS pres at the time a Pass Aleph P and a ML 380.

I haven't or don't recall ever having heard the others. I'm not familiar with the ATI either.

Ditto for me with the LS17. It blows me away that the LS17 is in demand on the used market and they sell very quickly. It took awhile to sell the ARC VS115 for slightly more money than the LS17 and yet the VS115 is in another league by comparison and should be worth far more money. If you have the LS17/VS115 combo, you truly have no idea how the VS115 really sounds.

 

[cpp]

Thanks for the suggestions, I get to listen to the Rogue and the CJ Monday

 

[LL21]

Thanks for the suggestions, I get to listen to the Rogue and the CJ Monday

Look forward to hearing your thoughts. BTW, if you like the CJ Classic...you might find a second hand ET3 for comparable price...

 

[Andre Marc]

Look forward to hearing your thoughts. BTW, if you like the CJ Classic...you might find a second hand ET3 for comparable price...

Actually, I am in the market for an ET3 my self. I have an audition on my To Do List.

Have you heard it?

 

[LL21]

Actually, I am in the market for an ET3 my self. I have an audition on my To Do List.

Have you heard it?

Hi Andre,

I own the CJ GAT, and have spoken with a number of people who really like the ET3...i also have owned the ACT 2 and the CJ PV14L, so have about 12+ consecutive years of knowledge of living with CJ. I think the ET3 is a great call, from everything people have told me based on their comparison to the GAT and other CJ preamps. These are people's whose taste i can calibrate.

And as for the CJ GAT, it is the one i chose after considering: Zanden 3000, Shindo Petrus, ARC Anniversary, Wavac PRT-1. OK - i clearly am a tubed guy for preamps and CJ at that!...so i admit my bias!

Coming back to ET3, people have confirmed to me it has very similar sound to GAT in balance...and i will say, having considered CJ ART 3 second hand, ARC and Shindo...i was pleasantly surprised to find the CJ balance to be somewhere in the middle of all of these...whereas by 'stereotype', one might have [mistakenly] assumed it would be in the golden camp. It is much more netural (somewhat like ACT 2)...but far less artificial in the treble (and i loved my ACT 2)...more natural in every respect. Thus you get the sensation of the golden bit from CJ...but without actually having the golden bit added. Very fine balance indeed, and once which i understand ET3 manages in its own way.

Just passing along comments from friends whom i've known for a long time.

 

[Andre Marc]

Hi Andre,

I own the CJ GAT, and have spoken with a number of people who really like the ET3...i also have owned the ACT 2 and the CJ PV14L, so have about 12+ consecutive years of knowledge of living with CJ. I think the ET3 is a great call, from everything people have told me based on their comparison to the GAT and other CJ preamps. These are people's whose taste i can calibrate.

And as for the CJ GAT, it is the one i chose after considering: Zanden 3000, Shindo Petrus, ARC Anniversary, Wavac PRT-1. OK - i clearly am a tubed guy for preamps and CJ at that!...so i admit my bias!

Coming back to ET3, people have confirmed to me it has very similar sound to GAT in balance...and i will say, having considered CJ ART 3 second hand, ARC and Shindo...i was pleasantly surprised to find the CJ balance to be somewhere in the middle of all of these...whereas by 'stereotype', one might have [mistakenly] assumed it would be in the golden camp. It is much more netural (somewhat like ACT 2)...but far less artificial in the treble (and i loved my ACT 2)...more natural in every respect. Thus you get the sensation of the golden bit from CJ...but without actually having the golden bit added. Very fine balance indeed, and once which i understand ET3 manages in its own way.

Just passing along comments from friends whom i've known for a long time.

Excellent, thanks. That is great information.

I find a preamp one of the most difficult things to decide on because not only do you
have to like the sound, but the ergonomics too, since you have to interface with it daily.

 

[LL21]

Excellent, thanks. That is great information.

I find a preamp one of the most difficult things to decide on because not only do you
have to like the sound, but the ergonomics too, since you have to interface with it daily.

True...the CJ stuff is fairly easy to work with...never heard about their preamps having problems...sometimes their amps...but never their preamps. As for sound, i think the ACT 2 generation was a necessary step which created a big divide between old CJ fans and 'new CJ fans'...and there were a few inbetween like me who loved the older golden...but understood transparency, detail, wider bandwidith was a necessary pursuit for them...its just that i understand after listening to GAT why some CJ philes left for other pastures.

But i suspect many of them are back. Turntable is a good example, if i may be so bold...loved the 16, the 17 and the ART series...but openly denounced the ACT 2. i remember seeking his wise counsel about my decision to get ACT 2 which i did and never regretted, but he was clear and honest about his views about the direction CJ took with this preamp and the 350 amp which he equally found a bit hard.

The key is that he eventually traded in the ART 3 for the GAT, and i eventually traded in ACT 2 for GAT as well. And we' re BOTH happy.

 

[Andre Marc]

True...the CJ stuff is fairly easy to work with...never heard about their preamps having problems...sometimes their amps...but never their preamps. As for sound, i think the ACT 2 generation was a necessary step which created a big divide between old CJ fans and 'new CJ fans'...and there were a few inbetween like me who loved the older golden...but understood transparency, detail, wider bandwidith was a necessary pursuit for them...its just that i understand after listening to GAT why some CJ philes left for other pastures.

But i suspect many of them are back. Turntable is a good example, if i may be so bold...loved the 16, the 17 and the ART series...but openly denounced the ACT 2. i remember seeking his wise counsel about my decision to get ACT 2 which i did and never regretted, but he was clear and honest about his views about the direction CJ took with this preamp and the 350 amp which he equally found a bit hard.

The key is that he eventually traded in the ART 3 for the GAT, and i eventually traded in ACT 2 for GAT as well. And we' re BOTH happy.

I have NO problems with golden. Not at all. If it does not sound beautiful, what is the point?

 

[LL21]

I have NO problems with golden. Not at all. If it does not sound beautiful, what is the point?

Andre - for about 17 years...i was 100% with you. And then i came across a few components which made me realize that this sweetness/beauty bit could be achieved but with less golden color than i had in my system at that time (5 years ago). The Wilson X1/Grand Slamm, the Metronome Kalista Ref...i used to own the SF Strads with older CJ products and Zanden DAC. Then i found the X1/Grand Slamms matched the SF for all the beautiful midrange i enjoyed...plus more articulate separation, detail, extension, bass, soundstage...and ALSO a sound that removed a 'hue' i had not fully appreciated was with the SF. That was a surprise to me...and since then, I suddenly find myself looking for components that add less hue...perhaps because with the Zanden i have a voicing i like, and there is enough 'gold' in the sound? not exactly sure...i just know i have definitively stepped away from my older system towards something that still ranks midrange magic first, but is far more in the neutral/natural zone than my prior system. One man's experience...

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre - for about 17 years...i was 100% with you. And then i came across a few components which made me realize that this sweetness/beauty bit could be achieved but with less golden color than i had in my system at that time (5 years ago). The Wilson X1/Grand Slamm, the Metronome Kalista Ref...i used to own the SF Strads with older CJ products and Zanden DAC. Then i found the X1/Grand Slamms matched the SF for all the beautiful midrange i enjoyed...plus more articulate separation, detail, extension, bass, soundstage...and ALSO a sound that removed a 'hue' i had not fully appreciated was with the SF. That was a surprise to me...and since then, I suddenly find myself looking for components that add less hue...perhaps because with the Zanden i have a voicing i like, and there is enough 'gold' in the sound? not exactly sure...i just know i have definitively stepped away from my older system towards something that still ranks midrange magic first, but is far more in the neutral/natural zone than my prior system. One man's experience...

Don't get me wrong..I totally agree with..I'm not into total velvet haze....

I just need to have beauty in the sound.

The sad thing is there are very, very few talented recording engineers
today. In the analog era, it was hard to screw up because tape would add a natural sweetness to the sound..
although there are plenty of horrific analog recordings too..once those first solid state mixing boards and other out
board crap were in fashion.

In many cases, accuracy means unlistenable.

Can you imagine anyone boasting about their totally neutral, accurate, and unlistenable system?

Give me just enough midrange magic and golden hue so I can float on a cloud, but not so much it
obscures important musical cues in the recording.

 

[Lee]

Ditto for me with the LS17. It blows me away that the LS17 is in demand on the used market and they sell very quickly. It took awhile to sell the ARC VS115 for slightly more money than the LS17 and yet the VS115 is in another league by comparison and should be worth far more money. If you have the LS17/VS115 combo, you truly have no idea how the VS115 really sounds.

Agreed, the VS115 is terrific.

 

[cpp]

Purchased the Rogue99. What a soundstage. The CJ was nice , natural and clear midrange and trebles. But the Rogue just was so much more...