Pre-Amp/Linestage With Subwoofer Outs

[amirm]

I'm just trying to help Michael, not looking to score points or argue. Levinson's own description tells you what it is; dual mono means just that, 2 channels and not 4. How do you go from 1L & 1R input to 4 channels output?

Well, you could do that too but that is not Michael's application. He has four channels coming in, not just two. You connect those to inputs 1 and 2 Left and Right respectively and then associate AUX with #2 input, and select #1 for mains. By then programming the volume control to act on both mains and Aux simultaneously, you are have a 4-channel system.

Note that I have not used this unit but that is my read of its manual.

Its still the same 2 channels, L & R coming out of multiple outputs, nothing more. The Aux in/out feature is like a glorified tape loop that many other preamps also have.

david

The better way to think about it is like zone two in an AVR. You have full control over routing and volume.

 

[ddk]

Well, you could do that too but that is not Michael's application. He has four channels coming in, not just two. You connect those to inputs 1 and 2 Left and Right respectively and then associate AUX with #2 input, and select #1 for mains. By then programming the volume control to act on both mains and Aux simultaneously, you are have a 4-channel system.

That's what I was missing, he has 4 channels coming and not two.

Note that I have not used this unit but that is my read of its manual.

The better way to think about it is like zone two in an AVR. You have full control over routing and volume.

Got it, thanks.

david
.

 

[dan31]

If the ML 52 can perform the task necessary then I think you would be hard pressed to find another pre of that high quality design and manufacture. Maybe Boulder 2110 but that is getting awfully expensive.

 

[rockitman]

Pass labs xp30 can also be daisy chained...up to six channels
https://passlabs.com/images/uploads/manual/xp-30_om.pdf

 

[Mike Lavigne]

it is possible that this product might be able to be integrated into your system, or not. likely worth checking out. you could even get a pair of them and only use one remote with some sort of offset.

http://www.placetteaudio.com/remote_control.htm

very very transparent in the right set-up.

I used one of these with a passive switcher for 4 years 10 years ago as my preamp and it bettered every $10k+ active preamp I tried in my system until the dart preamp came along in 2006. it's also the kind of product you might want laying around for when you want to go direct from a source assuming reasonable impedance issues.

there is a balanced version for another $400.

 

[dallasjustice]

The new ML 585 maybe?
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no585-integrated-amplifier#sYcv5CwF9oq0l3Ot.97

And the manual does mention the variable line outs and how they are configured for subs:
http://www.marklevinson.com/tl_file...on/Manuals/No585/Levinson_No585_OM_093014.pdf

I am not sure whether the user could select the input source for the variable pre out. In my case they would be the Xlr in.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Dallas.. with the Devialet you can do all of what you want and more


The main vol control would send power to the speakers and also control the pre outs

The pre outs also have adjustable output compared to mains

You also have crossover and delay , subsonic filters

In configurating the pre out , you can do them on a channel by channel basis or link them

You can adjust the pre outs (subs) from 0.2v to 4v

You can set them at high or low pass with whatever figure you want

Delay from 0-20000 us

Have them variable or fixed , allow tone controls to operate on them as well as balance and mute...

For your speakers ..

Firstly you have SAM .. that alone is a good reason to get a devialet

The devialet is more than adequate to drive the G3's to insane levels

The Giya/devialet makes an amazingly synergistic pairing

You can also set each speakers volume independently of another

You can high or low pass them with whatever freq you want (no control of slope tho..I think its 2nd order)

You can delay the mains up to 20000 us

Also apply tone/balance and mute to them

I/o can be reconfigured as to what you want , but you have wifi , Aes ebu , 2 x spdif , 2 x analog in , ethernet , usb and 2 opticals

You also get an amazing phono stage..

Easy to use DRC too , just insert it between source and devialet...

I saw you are giving up vinyl.. so no issue with the room correction on a TT as you arent using one


You can also scale up , ie get another 200 and use them as 400w monoblocks

You need no amps ..

You really need no cables barring speaker cables and power

If you really want , you can get 2 x 250's and then use them in 800w/chan monoblock config

Best of all , the SQ is amazing...

You can basically go to town....

 

[dallasjustice]

Outstanding post Rodney! I plan to talk to Nyal on Friday. I believe he told me he's a devialet dealer now. I wouldn't use the SAM due to my setup. But I believe you are correct that I can go from my Lynx Hilo AES to the devialet for R/L AND and analog pair from my Hilo to pre in to the devialet. I believe the Devialet could then be configured to output all four channels. Thank you for the nudge. It's funny because after you posted about it, I assumed it couldn't do what I wanted. I was about to write a comment to your post saying that it couldn't do it. But I started reading more about their product and realized I better not make any assumptions about it because it looks very flexible. Hopefully I can get a demo at some point. I'll report on it then. The Mola Mola amps are wonderful so it would be tough to beat. But the design looks very interesting. I've always loved the way they sound when I heard them at shows.

Michael.

Dallas.. with the Devialet you can do all of what you want and more


The main vol control would send power to the speakers and also control the pre outs

The pre outs also have adjustable output compared to mains

You also have crossover and delay , subsonic filters

In configurating the pre out , you can do them on a channel by channel basis or link them

You can adjust the pre outs (subs) from 0.2v to 4v

You can set them at high or low pass with whatever figure you want

Delay from 0-20000 us

Have them variable or fixed , allow tone controls to operate on them as well as balance and mute...

For your speakers ..

Firstly you have SAM .. that alone is a good reason to get a devialet

The devialet is more than adequate to drive the G3's to insane levels

The Giya/devialet makes an amazingly synergistic pairing

You can also set each speakers volume independently of another

You can high or low pass them with whatever freq you want (no control of slope tho..I think its 2nd order)

You can delay the mains up to 20000 us

Also apply tone/balance and mute to them

I/o can be reconfigured as to what you want , but you have wifi , Aes ebu , 2 x spdif , 2 x analog in , ethernet , usb and 2 opticals

You also get an amazing phono stage..

Easy to use DRC too , just insert it between source and devialet...

I saw you are giving up vinyl.. so no issue with the room correction on a TT as you arent using one


You can also scale up , ie get another 200 and use them as 400w monoblocks

You need no amps ..

You really need no cables barring speaker cables and power

If you really want , you can get 2 x 250's and then use them in 800w/chan monoblock config

Best of all , the SQ is amazing...

You can basically go to town....

 

[Rodney Gold]

Actually, you can dispense with the Hilo , you can go straight into the devialet via the interface of your choice.

I also suggest you try SAM ..I really was pretty sceptical and in fact setting it up with G3's taught me otherwise.

We had it on 100% and ran some test tones thru the sammed G3s and below 25hz , we heard a cluck cluck sound, and dialed it back to 10% .. Albeit it was at low levels SAM improved more than just bass.. kinda like a sort of cross between dirac/DSP and the extra sense of ambience you get adding subs...

I then thought the SAMMED speakers sounded better

My pal is using it with a miniDSP openDRC Acourate based box and doing the fir filters and tweaking the bass via PEQ as well as fiddeling a target curve .. the whole system sounded amazing..as close to my g1's as you can get.. all I have extra is an octave and a slightly bigger scale.

There is an issue you need to face if you go for devialet
I dont think you can define 2 extra line level outputs , unless you double down and get 2
That is not a problem if you want to use the Devialets internal amp..
You need to work out how you are going to implement DRC.. how do you do so now? The path ..like puter>acourate etc etc

As to the amp itself... I can only tell you that of the 15 or so vivid owners I know , at least 10 or maybe 12 use Devialet.. once they auditioned , it was all over bar the shouting , and of devialet owners , most who bought the smaller models upgrade or add another.
With all the tools at your disposal you can have whatever sound you like..without removing any of the magic the speakers are capable of

 

[dallasjustice]

SAM is simply linearizing the frequency response of the vivid below 150hz. This discussion loops back to a previous exchange we had about subs and room acoustics. It's physically not possible for a 2 speaker system to do bass better than a 4 channel system using subs and crossover. So SAM is cool for folks with only 2 speakers but there are much better ways to get good bass, IMO. SAM will also have the undesirable effect of limiting the speaker's dynamic range. This is the opposite of what I can do with a crossover and subs.

I need the Hilo to do test sweeps and to use the computer for FIR filters for crossovers and other DSP. To my knowledge, Devialet doesn't have anything close to Acourate or Audiolense. They never will because there's not enough computer power on the FPGA to do 60,000 FIR taps. It's not possible.

Actually, you can dispense with the Hilo , you can go straight into the devialet via the interface of your choice.

I also suggest you try SAM ..I really was pretty sceptical and in fact setting it up with G3's taught me otherwise.

We had it on 100% and ran some test tones thru the sammed G3s and below 25hz , we heard a cluck cluck sound, and dialed it back to 10% .. Albeit it was at low levels SAM improved more than just bass.. kinda like a sort of cross between dirac/DSP and the extra sense of ambience you get adding subs...

I then thought the SAMMED speakers sounded better

My pal is using it with a miniDSP openDRC Acourate based box and doing the fir filters and tweaking the bass via PEQ as well as fiddeling a target curve .. the whole system sounded amazing..as close to my g1's as you can get.. all I have extra is an octave and a slightly bigger scale.

There is an issue you need to face if you go for devialet
I dont think you can define 2 extra line level outputs , unless you double down and get 2
That is not a problem if you want to use the Devialets internal amp..
You need to work out how you are going to implement DRC.. how do you do so now? The path ..like puter>acourate etc etc

As to the amp itself... I can only tell you that of the 15 or so vivid owners I know , at least 10 or maybe 12 use Devialet.. once they auditioned , it was all over bar the shouting , and of devialet owners , most who bought the smaller models upgrade or add another.
With all the tools at your disposal you can have whatever sound you like..without removing any of the magic the speakers are capable of

 

[dallasjustice]

Rodney or Microstrip, do you know how many DAC chips the d200 has? Is it a pair of PCM1792 in mono? If that's the case, I would probably need two d200 units daisy chained together to run a four channel setup like this.

 

[amirm]

The new ML 585 maybe?
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no585-integrated-amplifier#sYcv5CwF9oq0l3Ot.97

And the manual does mention the variable line outs and how they are configured for subs:
http://www.marklevinson.com/tl_file...on/Manuals/No585/Levinson_No585_OM_093014.pdf

I am not sure whether the user could select the input source for the variable pre out. In my case they would be the Xlr in.

I am contemplating getting a 585 for my new DAC+pre-amp.

 

[dallasjustice]

I am contemplating getting a 585 for my new DAC+pre-amp.

It got a great review. Maybe you can test it for me to see whether it can volume control 4 channels at once. I would do R/L over AES and SWR/SWL over the analog in. The R/L would be routed to speaker terminals and the analog inputs routed to the pre outs. The question is whether all four can play out the 585 at the same time with the same volume control. The manual talks about SSP but that's not really what I need. It doesn't address this routing.

 

[dallasjustice]

This might work.

http://www.normaudio.com/normaudio/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/HS-DA1.pdf

 

[dallasjustice]

I am contemplating getting a 585 for my new DAC+pre-amp.

I sent an email to Levinson. I cc'd you on it.

Btw, I hadn't realized Harman has Todd Eichenbaum. I know he designed some awesome gear at Krell. I used to own the Krell 900e monoblocks. They were incredible amps and I think he designed most of it.

 

[amirm]

For a moment I thought you meant you sent mail to Levinson the man! What happened to Daniel Hertz the company anyway?

 

[dallasjustice]

For a moment I thought you meant you sent mail to Levinson the man! What happened to Daniel Hertz the company anyway?

I thought he was going to revolutionize digital playback based on his digital EQ. I'm surprised Harman hangs on to that name. They should just drop it and start over. I do love the industrial design though. It's classic.

 

[KeithR]

Rupert Neve 5060 might do it and it sounds quite good...Zu Audio uses one all the time.

I don't believe any traditional hifi gear will.

 

[853guy]

Rupert Neve 5060 might do it and it sounds quite good...Zu Audio uses one all the time.

I don't believe any traditional hifi gear will.

Good point.

Dangerous, Maselec, Cranesong, Grace, Burl, et al all make monitoring controllers that might do what you want. Maybe an email to BruceB might be in order.

 

[dallasjustice]

I think the Norma SC-2 with DAC board can do it. Allesandro says it can be done. The Norma gear is super flexible with routing. I've never heard it but Chris C on CA gave it a nice review and it the designs look pretty nice.

I agree that my solution is very unusual and there's not many options available. I've looked into some of the pro gear. I generally like pro gear. In fact, I use a Lynx Hilo and love it. I've owned the Hilo longer than any other DAC and I've owned some mega $$$ DACs. The problem with all pro gear is the lack of decent remote control. When I say that, I mean that it must look and feel like a remote to my wife. That's not possible in the pro world.