Republican bill passes, opening path to debt deal
- Thread starter Steve williams
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Well you know, I am a musician, but what I am really puzzled about this whole debt business: Is it not in the banks (be they US or CH banks) interest to have a solution with the smallest loss.
So who actually wins here?
European medias (and not only left papers like The Guardian, no: Frankfurter Allgemeine, the real conservative german paper) judge Obama has lost - would you hold this true to US views?
So who actually wins here?
European medias (and not only left papers like The Guardian, no: Frankfurter Allgemeine, the real conservative german paper) judge Obama has lost - would you hold this true to US views?
It seems more and more people here are feeling he isn't going to be re-elected if this debt crisis and financial woe is not solved
I think it will depend on the media and how they portray the economic failures of this president. One camp is still happy with blaming Bush, while many others are considering that "old news". Don't underestimate the spin capability of the media and the unfortunate ignorance of a large percentage of the population.
Lee
To which I would reply, to Greg, that yes we do have wealth now but if we head further down that particular path, that wealth will be gone in short order. We may as well adopt Greek as our official language....and train a helluva lot more cops and firemen.
Lee..
It's alarming the number of folks with whom I may happen to strike up a conversation about the economy or any number of other current events, that are clueless as to what's going on here much less globally. There's a huge number of the unengaged/uninformed that pull the levers in November and that's scary.
Let's not consider treating people a zero return action. Feeding people and taking care of the poor is a requirement not an afterthought.Taking care of those less fortunate brings clear, definite and measurable economic returns. The welfare of its citizens is a very important component of the true wealth of a nation.
Now the problem with Health-care IMO is not so much the mandate of universal healthcare but the cost of medical treatment in the good US of A.. I was really shocked to learn that an uncle MRI cost $8,000! A quick Googling on the word cost of MRI brings numbers between $200 and $10,000 .. Indeed if such high cost is to be applied toward such a large number of people, I am not sure it is sustainable but does it have to be so expensive? Aren't there ways to bring the cost of healthcare down?
With all due respect Frantz, the discussion was not about taking care of just the needy. Greg's post talked about providing housing, clothing, healthcare, et al for ALL citizens...not just the needy. Implying that I suggest we toss the needy under the bus is disingenuous. What's happening in Greece and apparently what's coming in France and Italy is exactly what happens when big government attempts to be one-stop-shop for everyone's needs and they run out of other people's money to spend. I'm not sure that once a country is on this path, that it's even possible to get off it. Politics simply gets in the way of any real solution.
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Does this look familiar?
http://www.ablemesh.co.uk/thoughtsboombust.htmlIn the case of housing said:
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Does this look familiar?
es347
I will drop it after this post... Let's not get into the government taking care of EVERY single citizen... It is not part of the American Ethos.
What's happening in Greece is not the single result of "big" government as you suggest far from it. True the Government with its ineffectual Prime Minster spent like there was no tomorrow but Greece hasn't been producing anything besides building houses, another Housing Bubble, their tax system is one of the worst in the world with the government unable to collect much revenues from taxes.. so they did borrow and too much.. Very low cost of lending, general world economic downturn plus the aforementioned (and more) causes lead to this crisis. As for France they are NOT in that condition, far from it.. They produce things after all and their debt is not larger than their GDP and as for taxation, nothing is more feared in France than the Collecteur d'Impots (The Tax collector) ...
It is true that this country, the USA has the means to take care of those less fortunate than us... maybe all of them.
And yes Politics gets in the way of real solution... I'll leave it at that.
I will drop it after this post... Let's not get into the government taking care of EVERY single citizen... It is not part of the American Ethos.
What's happening in Greece is not the single result of "big" government as you suggest far from it. True the Government with its ineffectual Prime Minster spent like there was no tomorrow but Greece hasn't been producing anything besides building houses, another Housing Bubble, their tax system is one of the worst in the world with the government unable to collect much revenues from taxes.. so they did borrow and too much.. Very low cost of lending, general world economic downturn plus the aforementioned (and more) causes lead to this crisis. As for France they are NOT in that condition, far from it.. They produce things after all and their debt is not larger than their GDP and as for taxation, nothing is more feared in France than the Collecteur d'Impots (The Tax collector) ...
It is true that this country, the USA has the means to take care of those less fortunate than us... maybe all of them.
And yes Politics gets in the way of real solution... I'll leave it at that.
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I couldn't agree more...our economy, not the govt., can support all our citizens given the freedom to do so.
In spite of the fact that the House is responsible for the money, yes, presidents get blamed for poor times and lauded for rich ones. So one would expect that if the financial crisis isn't looking much better by the end of 2012 that Obama will be a one-term president. But the other card, of course, is not even drawn yet. Who will the Republicans run against him? Can Mitt Romney overcome his RINO status to get the nomination from a GOP being pulled around on a leash by its most radical element? If he does, can he get past the fact that he has flipped on almost everything he ever said/did/stood for to appeal to that radical element and win in the general election, which is determined by the center? Rick Perry can probably win the Tea Party nomination, but with the cultural skeletons in his closet can he win the center? Even against a weakened president in a bad economy? It's too easy to imagine the ads that would render him totally unacceptable. Can Tim Pawlenty get any attention at all? Can Michelle Bachman...no, of course she can't.
I don't think the Republican candidate for 2012 has even surfaced yet, and if he/she is really good, getting through the nominating process will be a hell of a challenge. Barack Obama, the great orator, has turned out to be a bland leader not up to the huge task that is our times; a peacemaker seeking compromise in an uncompromising moment. But bland may just be the only thing that can make it through the process at this moment in American history.
Interesting times.
Tim
And just whom do you propose to have PAY for the needy and the poor?
The problem with healthcare is that the government regulations have buried doctors and hospitals in onerous paperwork, costs and threats of severe penalties for any little mistake. On top of that, the legal system ran amok with absurd malpractice awards, making a doctor's costs for insurance equally absurd. The whole problem with rising medical costs can be traced back to government regulations. Get the government out of healthcare and the costs will go down.
Get the insurance companies(for profit) out of health care and the costs will go down and the level of "real" care might improve.
Mark
Let me return you the question. The needy and the poor should then left to fend for themselves? A modern society then has no obligation toward those less fortunate? Please do ponder on the value of a society that would abandon its poor and needy ... Poverty and neediness can befall onto any particular person... Such occurrences have then the strong effect of changing one's perspective ...
Let me return you the question. The needy and the poor should then left to fend for themselves? A modern society then has no obligation toward those less fortunate? Please do ponder on the value of a society that would abandon its poor and needy ... Poverty and neediness can befall onto any particular person... Such occurrences have then the strong effect of changing one's perspective ...
You need to go talk to your doctors. The overwhelming majority of the paperwork that is burdening American healthcare comes from American insurance companies, not the government.
Tim
I do not know Roger.
Over here in the UK what happens instead is a balking-blocking strategy by those in charge.
Labour craftily created an administration structure using Primary Care Trusts and National Health Trusts to manage the money for health care treatments.
These PCTs seem to restrict quite severely the quality of health that can be provided, and ironically the political party who created it can wash their hands of "lottery" type effect depending upon which PCT one falls under and say it is not their issue but a PCT one.
This ignores NICE that was created to evaluate new medicines; quite a few medicines are turned down for unusual reasons it seems, or limited to their application.
I appreciate we are talking of two different but extreme setups (insurance vs the state organised structure), but the challenge is making sure to find a moderate middle between the two.
However socialist based parties have a difficulty in not creating admin burdened organisations, while conservative based parties tend to go towards the commercial view too much.
Thats my take when looking at both health cares from US and UK, and the parties involved.
Cheers
Orb
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