Roon and HQ Player

[astrotoy]

Hi Marty,

I very recently had a computer built specifically for Roon/HQP that has enough power to upsample mch files from DSD64 to DSD256. I am pretty sure it has enough power to do two channel to DSD512. My computer builder spent time consulting with Jussi about what was needed and I have a copy of the parts list if you want to PM me. I can also give you info on my computer builder (who is quite well known). Larry

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi Marty,

I had a computer built specifically for Roon/HQP that has enough power to upsample mch files from DSD64 to DSD256. I am pretty sure it has enough power to do two channel to DSD512. My computer builder spent time consulting with Jussi about what was needed and I have a copy of the parts list if you want to PM me. I can also give you info on my computer builder (who is quite well known). Larry

Larry what OS,how much ram and size of hard drive. Didi you use a SSHD

 

[NorthStar]

That was not really necessary. You can poke fun at me if you see it. I acknowledge that being interested in multichannel and in classical makes it difficult to find effective solutions since neither interest is shared by the majority of audiophiles (term is used literally). Niche within a niche within......

You are right, it was not necessary; I apologize Kal. I don't want to poke fun @ you or anyone else.

 

[hifial]

How about a 8 core Xeon processor workstation with 32gb RAM and a PCIe SSD boot drive?

You do not want an 8 core. Stay with a quad core i7 6700K. 16Gb ram is fine. This will do DSD512. I and many others have built these PC over at Computer Audiophile. There is a thread about it.

 

[nc42acc]

I am currently using an Asus laptop with this configuration, Intel Core i7-6700HQ 2.6GHz. 16GB RAM; 1TB 7200RPM Storage. It will barely squeak out DSD512 but will typically start breaking up.

You do not want an 8 core. Stay with a quad core i7 6700K. 16Gb ram is fine. This will do DSD512. I and many others have built these PC over at Computer Audiophile. There is a thread about it.

 

[hifial]

Daphile:

https://www.daphile.com/

But only if setup properly. I've been working with the developer fine tuning the upsampling algorithms for over 6 months now. It's absolutely superb. And when you use the Ipeng app on Ipad or Iphone, the GUI is 90% as good as Roon.

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/

It uses the Squeezebox LMS streaming protocol, which is much more rock solid than Roon RAAT. After all they have been fine tuning it for 15 years now.

I have a question. HQ Player can do convolution/DSP/DRC with DSD still kept in the DSD domain without being converted to PCM. As far as I know it is the ONLY one that can do that.

So my question is can Daphile do that?

 

[hifial]

I am currently using an Asus laptop with this configuration, Intel Core i7-6700HQ 2.6GHz. 16GB RAM; 1TB 7200RPM Storage. It will barely squeak out DSD512 but will typically start breaking up.

Sorry Marty but that is not the same configuration. That i7 6700 is a HQ and not the K model. That is a HUGE difference in specs.

When I have the chance I will post my list of parts for you. Or you can buy my PC that I no longer use because I use the SGM 2015 by Sound Galleries now. I have been meaning to list it for sale for months now.

By the way, 8 cores sounded worse then the 4 cores when compared. Don't know why.

 

[hifial]

Marty, others who have an interest, below is my parts list from back in June 2016 for a PC to run HQ Player and Roon capable of doing DSD512. This is an exact copy of that post on Computer Audiophile.

First please keep in mind that I am going as simple and as cost effective but with sound quality in mind. I plan on using this PC till I can use a much better replacement, hopefully sooner then later. But for most people this will work very well. If one wants to spend about two to three times as much then you could get better sound and options. I am using external storage, in my case a NAS. I am not using a separate Graphics Card with Cuda as I am looking for less noise. I am not using separate power supply for the SSD but might later (and for the NAS). This is in context with using the T+A DAC 8 DSD and HQ Player up-sampling all rates to 512DSD.



Also I must thank Larry and a few others for their help and guidance in this matter. All prices are approximate street.



CPU-Intel 17 6700K (a must) $350+/-



MB - Asus Z170M-Plus Micro ATX LGA 1151 (this is one choice) $125+/-



PS - Seasonic Platinum SS-400 FL2 400w Fanless (this is one choice) $100+/-



CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-C14S (use fan in lower position - one choice) $80+/-



SSD - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SATA III (no need for Pro - one choice) $90+/-



RAM - ADATA XPG Z1 DDR 2400 8GB (2x4GB) (one choice and 8GB is fine here but if one wants go to 16GB) this one is as high as $75+ to as low as $35



Case - Silverstone GD09B ATX Media Center (this case has a lot of ventilation and is inexpensive - one choice) $75+/-



OS - W10 Pro 64 Bit (Pro 64Bit a must) $140+/-



Added Software - HQ Player + ROON + AO IMHO all THREE are required. (AO is Audio Optimizer)



Hope this helps.

If one wants to they can use a seperate power supply for they SSD etc.

Also the power supply chosen here had at the time the lowest ripple and the PC would never pull enough power from it to cause the fan to come on.

 

[hifial]

Daphile does native "DSD wide" upsampling, and so does the other Roon compatible option I was talking about. So does that Roon after I bugged them to implement it. Huge improvement over their 1st gen upsampling. But no match for Daphile or the HQP extreme filters. However if you want to use the convolution on native "DSD wide", Roon can do it today, but it will be a couple weeks before we see a beta from Daphile with the capability. I have 1 client who uses Acourate with HQP and my system, and he's chomping at the bit for the new upgrade because he likes Daphile better without room correction, but because his room is so troubled, he prefers HQP combined with his Acourate convolution. However if you're among the 98% who don't use convolution with HQP, Daphile is a no brainer. All of my other clients ditched HQP after hearing Daphile upsampling. Even after buying the licences, they abandoned them and no longer use them. They also love that everything always just works, with no messing around.

Could you please define "DSD wide"

Also, you keep on saying how they love how everything just works. I and others I know that use Roon and HQ Player can say the same thing. So it is just some peoples experiences.

 

[Steve Williams]

You do not want an 8 core. Stay with a quad core i7 6700K. 16Gb ram is fine. This will do DSD512. I and many others have built these PC over at Computer Audiophile. There is a thread about it.

Hi Al

Do these things have to be towers or can a lap top with thise specs work. I ask only because I am a Mac user and in order to play quad DSD a PC is required as a Mac does not have sufficient band width to play DSD256 or is there a way to use a Mac for quad DSD

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Al

Do these things have to be towers or can a lap top with thise specs work. I ask only because I am a Mac user and in order to play quad DSD a PC is required as a Mac does not have sufficient band width to play DSD256 or is there a way to use a Mac for quad DSD

you likely have 3-4 SMPS's (switch-mode power supplies) in your laptop....that's how they make it powerful and small. they are very noisy no matter what you do. once the noise is in the data stream you cannot remove it. you have to remove the noise source.......therefore.....get a better server.

is a laptop good enough? a personal decision.

 

[Steve Williams]

It's good enough as long as you fiber optically isolate it from an ultra clean streamer between the laptop and the DAC.

MikeL

What you forgot regarding the USB X box is that it goes to the Dac via optical cable exactly how Mivera suggested. I have a SSHD to reduce noise and I've always felt there is nothing audible but the new cable seems to be removing noise.

 

[microstrip]

It's good enough as long as you fiber optically isolate it from an ultra clean streamer between the laptop and the DAC.

What is the best way of fiber optically isolate a Vivaldi upsampler (RJ45 connection)?

 

[bibo01]

Let me try to clear a few points.

Comparing Daphile to HQPlayer is just plain wrong. Daphile is an OS, a patched distribution of Gentoo with upsampling capability based on SoX, to which Måns developed a DSD extension (freely available).
It is possible to compare HQPlayer's modulators to Måns' - objectively. I did it. You can find the published results here (for Måns' test, go towards the end). Måns modulator is fine, although rather basic and coarse. I may add - HQPlayer has nothing to worry about it! It's a better modulator and a much more flexible program.

It is possible to use Roon+HQPlayer in a headless system, that is similar to Daphile, with an external interface: one has to use Roon Core + HQPlayer Embedded. It works very well. Various Linux distributions can be employed.
On this matter, we at NextrHardware have produced a better, custom version of Gentoo that can work with both Roon and HQPE, either as server or NAA.

I am glad that the dozen or so Mike's clients are happy with Daphile and his devices, but I would avoid generalizations based on subjective opinions. I am sure there are as many, but probably more, opposite views on "the other side". Personally, I know MANY of them.

Daphile is a good "boxed in" system. I am very aware of it and I often suggest it to users. As a matter of fact, we at NextHardware have people who develop tools employed inside Daphile. Its strength, however, is also is weakness: although developed on open source programs, it's closed. There is little flexibility, unless developer decides to add a particular feature (for example, a particular wi-fi receiver).

One last note: perhaps after the summer a plug-in will be developed for Logitech Media Server (the server side used by Daphile) to work in conjunction with HQPlayer.

 

[bibo01]

Thanks for the clarifications. But since Daphile is free, it's easy for anyone to draw their own conclusions. I'm just basing things off of 2 years experience with HQP, and clients who extensively compared the systems head to head. But by no means am I saying everyone will share the same opinion. I have absolutely no biases. I don't make any commission off of the free Daphile software. I am not an official reseller of Daphile software.

Well... I am on my 8th year with HQPlayer

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Yes and as a reseller of HQP, it's easy to see why you would prefer it. Just like if I sold BMW's at a BMW dealership, I wouldn't send you across the street to the Mercedes dealership to buy a Mercedes. It would be a very counterproductive move

Unless the Mercedes was free.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks for the clarifications. But since Daphile is free, it's easy for anyone to draw their own conclusions. I'm just basing things off of 2 years experience with HQP, and clients who extensively compared the systems head to head. But by no means am I saying everyone will share the same opinion. I have absolutely no biases. I don't make any commission off of the free Daphile software. I am not an official reseller of Daphile software.

you are brimming full of biases about Daphile , as you tout it as the elixir for your product. but that was......36 hours ago......so......maybe you've moved on.

oh....and......that's 53 posts in 50 hours back to WBF. that's a 'blizzard' of a pace.

 

[bibo01]

Yes and as a reseller of HQP, it's easy to see why you would prefer it. Just like if I sold BMW's at a BMW dealership, I wouldn't send you across the street to the Mercedes dealership to buy a Mercedes. It would be a very counterproductive move

One essential thing you should point out, however, is that I DO NOT MAKE ANY MONEY OUT OF BEING AN OFFICIAL RESELLER. I give all the discount to users and, if you remember well, you took advantage of it too, more than once

 

[bibo01]

Yes I know I sent business your way many times. But I found another option which is free, and sounds better. You'd think everyone would be excited about this? I know my clients were when they first heard it.

All two dozen of them?!
Anyway, both you and I (and Jussi) really know why HQPlayer was not good enough anymore for your hardware. That is about it!

 

[bibo01]

When 2 dozen to 1 prefer Daphile over HQP, that would be enough evidence to consider the free download for me. Yes and the reason I don't use HQP anymore, is because it was a pain in the ass supporting clients, Jussi didn't return emails, and it doesn't sound as good as the free Daphile. For me that's enough reasons.

I can reverse that 10 to 1