SET amp owners thread

bonzo75

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I am thinking SET or not SET should be able to do fluctuations, shading, nuances.

Kind regards,
Tang

SETs and horns are known for tone and dynamics too, but the speed and liquidity of low watt high sensitivity (120 db with 1w) is what is causing those nuances. Bill's horns are also 115 db. I do get it with 98 db Yamamura with his own matched current drive SS amp. The source makes a difference, of course, but till what level - at yours I got it most on the Strad, and AS is the most nuanced of the TTs. But moving from 46 to 211, or moving from AS to EMT (to a larger extent), all reduce the nuances. At Montesquieu, the Silvercore 20w 833c amp was more nuanced than the KR integrated 50w though the latter had some other positives. Tannoys overall less nuanced than very good horns. The Devore was most nuanced with the NAF 2a3 to show such inflections of the many amps I tried. I do not get these in cone based, SS systems, or push pull systems. Maybe the complex crossovers also cost that nuance.

The interesting thing was comparing Devore to Cessaro Wagner. The latter sounded better with more power of push pull EL34 34w compared to 300b 10w (Airtight amps). The Devore sounded better with lesser power. The lesser power increased nuance. So in the Wagner I was giving up nuance to get it to sound better, as I was increasing power, because there were other aspects such as energy and drive that were otherwise lacking. With devore energy and drive with 10w was not an issue, so the single ended, 10w could be used to increase nuance.

I did ask the General once when he was playing us some records how much of these nuances come from the linear tracker. He said most of it. I must have asked because my gut would have been telling me that, just as I heard it with the extremely small (smallest, probably ) versa dynamics LT arm at Pietro's. However, I will choose not to believe them till the General mounts for me another table with a good pivot in his room to compare.

In SS, if you use a lot of clean power, like Boulder, you do get more nuances and inflections than other SS amps, but nowhere as close.
 

Audiophile Bill

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Beautiful system Audiophile Bill,

I love those Mayer beauties of course as I am a little biased here :p
I believe you have his 46 power amp as well? If so, which version ( which driver)? And how do you like the amp?

The landscape 10Y really matches the rest of your setup. Congratulations.

Hi,

Yes I have the “entry” level stereo 46 with 6sn7 driver. I adore the amp - I knew I would own it the first time I heard it on the Pnoe. I have heard this one, the monoblocks (46 drives a 46, copper) and now the push pull 3+ watt version. They are all remarkable.

If your speakers can operate well with such low power, it is a no brainer for me. Tone is to die for, musicality is top notch, speed and resolution is at a level I haven’t heard with any other amps. But you do need the right speakers.
 
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Audiophile Bill

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I am thinking SET or not SET should be able to do fluctuations, shading, nuances. SS could be even more resolving and can deliver these traits. Excellent digital can probably do it too. I just never put myself in that territory of MSB or Lampi with proper tubes. I think too many boxes and interconnects leave more chances to more variables though. The most important thing about this is in the area of upstream at point source. If it is lost there or never there at the first place, you never gonna recover it down the line.

I am probably wrong, the attraction of SET and horn is more in the tone, dynamic and how they present music. We can find extreme resolution from amps and speakers regardless of their types in my opinion.

Kind regards,
Tang

Hi Tang,

The key here is the extreme resolution with concomitant musicality. For me, this is of critical importance and very few systems ever get to this level. There are a plethora of clinically revealing systems out there but the music and flow seems lost. The other comment is the content of such extreme resolution - the inner detail retrieval in this system context pertains not only to hearing new ambient content but also enhanced tonal / timbral content. Many systems illuminate new bits of information get seemingly that content doesn’t reveal itself as believable or musically relevant because the macro level portrayal is already incorrect tonally or dynamically or a combination thereof.

For me the holy grail is the combination of extreme inner resolution always combined with maximum musicality that leads to an enhanced whole.
 

Tango

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I did ask the General once when he was playing us some records how much of these nuances come from the linear tracker. He said most of it. I must have asked because my gut would have been telling me that, just as I heard it with the extremely small (smallest, probably ) versa dynamics LT arm at Pietro's. However, I will choose not to believe them till the General mounts for me another table with a good pivot in his room to compare.
.

I should get one of those Airtangent Mig is using.

Tang
 

bonzo75

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Yes please, and a Schroeder LT. After the summer in Thailand though
 

Blue58

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SETDrugs

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:rolleyes:
Hi,

Yes I have the “entry” level stereo 46 with 6sn7 driver. I adore the amp - I knew I would own it the first time I heard it on the Pnoe. I have heard this one, the monoblocks (46 drives a 46, copper) and now the push pull 3+ watt version. They are all remarkable.

If your speakers can operate well with such low power, it is a no brainer for me. Tone is to die for, musicality is top notch, speed and resolution is at a level I haven’t heard with any other amps. But you do need the right speakers.

Thank you for the details on your system Audiophile Bill. I knew about the potential of the 46 tube before I ordered my amp from Thomas but was torn on the 45, 46, and 2a3. These are imho , among the greatest DHTs ever made, when matched to the right speakers.

As previously mentioned, I went with the 45/2a3 amp but had Thomas slighty modified it so that I can also use the 46 ( w/ adaptor) with no fear of going over spec. The only caveat is that the 46 must be used on 16 ohm or higher speakers. My Soul Supreme are 16 ohms so everything worked out beautifully.

Based on what I'm hearing from the 46, your system must sound amazing on those horns. I currently have the JJ2a3-40 in my amp and its incredible as well. It has a lot of the same atributes of the 46 but with more power.

Just one final thought: did you prefer the SE 46 or the differential push pull 46 when you auditioned the General's system and why?
 

bonzo75

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:rolleyes:


Thank you for the details on your system Audiophile Bill. I knew about the potential of the 46 tube before I ordered my amp from Thomas but was torn on the 45, 46, and 2a3. These are imho , among the greatest DHTs ever made, when matched to the right speakers.

As previously mentioned, I went with the 45/2a3 amp but had Thomas slighty modified it so that I can also use the 46 ( w/ adaptor) with no fear of going over spec. The only caveat is that the 46 must be used on 16 ohm or higher speakers. My Soul Supreme are 16 ohms so everything worked out beautifully.

Based on what I'm hearing from the 46, your system must sound amazing on those horns. I currently have the JJ2a3-40 in my amp and its incredible as well. It has a lot of the same atributes of the 46 but with more power.

Just one final thought: did you prefer the SE 46 or the differential push pull 46 when you auditioned the General's system and why?

JJ is not good with any valve I have heard. Try his own elrog, and KR. I haven't heard elrog but KR 2a3 is really good. EML is musical but noisier. There will be others.
 

bonzo75

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:rolleyes:


Thank you for the details on your system Audiophile Bill. I knew about the potential of the 46 tube before I ordered my amp from Thomas but was torn on the 45, 46, and 2a3. These are imho , among the greatest DHTs ever made, when matched to the right speakers.

As previously mentioned, I went with the 45/2a3 amp but had Thomas slighty modified it so that I can also use the 46 ( w/ adaptor) with no fear of going over spec. The only caveat is that the 46 must be used on 16 ohm or higher speakers. My Soul Supreme are 16 ohms so everything worked out beautifully.

Based on what I'm hearing from the 46, your system must sound amazing on those horns. I currently have the JJ2a3-40 in my amp and its incredible as well. It has a lot of the same atributes of the 46 but with more power.

Just one final thought: did you prefer the SE 46 or the differential push pull 46 when you auditioned the General's system and why?

Regarding the push pull vs single ended is a tough call because apart from a lot of time, many changes (upgrades) in pre and phono have happened in the system since, also an upgrade of BD4 to BD5 drivers in the speaker
 

SETDrugs

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JJ is not good with any valve I have heard. Try his own elrog, and KR. I haven't heard elrog but KR 2a3 is really good. EML is musical but noisier. There will be others.

Hi Bonzo75,

I meant for the money. The EML is way more expensive and Thomas says the Elrog won't be out for another 2 years. I didn't know the EMLs were noisy. I've always thought that they were well built. What is your opinion of mesh from EML?

I will look into the Ken Rad as well since you like it. Thanks for the advice.
 

bonzo75

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Hi Bonzo75,

I meant for the money. The EML is way more expensive and Thomas says the Elrog won't be out for another 2 years. I didn't know the EMLs were noisy. I've always thought that they were well built. What is your opinion of mesh from EML?

I will look into the Ken Rad as well since you like it. Thanks for the advice.

KR is not Ken rad. It is KR audio. Contact them directly you will get a good price, also check with best300b.com, and used market. Not low priced like JJ though.
 

Audiophile Bill

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Regarding the push pull vs single ended is a tough call because apart from a lot of time, many changes (upgrades) in pre and phono have happened in the system since, also an upgrade of BD4 to BD5 drivers in the speaker

Agree Ked. But if someone put a gun to my head and asked for a comment, I would say:

>> Push pull even lower noise floor and overall quieter with greater dynamic potential
>> Push pull better timing
>> Tone possibly slightly richer on the SE version

But take this with pinch of salt. The General can answer with some certainty if he is reading this.

I would truly love to hear the all silver SE 46 monoblocks though...
 
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VinylSavor

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Hi!

I would truly love to hear the all silver SE 46 monoblocks though...

I will demo a pair of all silver 46 drive 46 monos at the Munich High End in May. I also plan to build an all silver version of the Push Pull / Differential 46 drive 46 amps for Munich

Best regards

Thomas
 

marslo

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Refering to Ked’s comment regarding PP and SET amps I auditioned recently Cube amps from Mysound, the company one hour drive from my place.
During the shows they are used often with Horns from Autotech , some of our fellows audiophiles have them at home.
Apart from very good sonics I like their design, very similar to Lars , another great SET amps , which I missed to buy sh last week .
Although Cubes are very good I prefer my Ayon Crossfire III with AG Duo Mezzo XD but I was very much impressed when connected them to my nearly 25 years old PS 5.1.
Pls find some pics.
 

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bonzo75

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I like cube EL84. It is liquid and nice mids, does not match all amps on the bass. I don't know the Ayon crossfire. The PP amps I do not like (as much) as sets or SS are the big PP, like AR, VTL, etc, though some of them can sound better under certain applications. If I had to go higher power PP, between 50 to 200w, and a bit tough to drive, I would use KR. Below that mostly SETs.
 

spiritofmusic

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Ked, you need to hear Nat again. Not as delicate or nuanced as Mayer e.g., but compelling in their own way. And a perfect match for both high efficiency and somewhat harder to drive spkrs in large and challenging rooms.

It's all very well loving Mayer 46 on 120+dB Pnoes in The General's room. But the vast majority of spkrs are nowhere near this easy to drive. Indeed I can't think of a single alternative which 1.46W could help energise c.1200-1500 sq ft/20,000-25,000 cub ft. The Azzolina Hadrons and Gran Sferas horns I heard there IMHO failed to totally convince, and that was on 20-30W Mayer 211s.
 
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bonzo75

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Ked, you need to hear Nat again. Not as delicate or nuanced as Mayer e.g., but compelling in their own way. And a perfect match for both high efficiency and somewhat harder to drive spkrs in large and challenging rooms.

It's all very well loving Mayer 46 on 120+dB Pnoes in The General's room. But the vast majority of spkrs are nowhere near this easy to drive. Indeed I can't think of a single alternative which 1.46W could help energise c.1200-1500 sq ft/20,000-25,000 cub ft. The Azzolina Hadrons and Gran Sferas horns I heard there IMHO failed to totally convince, and that was on 20-30W Mayer 211s.

Marc, I had Nat magma SE in my system next to jadis. That time I preferred the Jadis. then, I heard the magma M on a cone speaker, the magma SE on an infinity (the model with hybrid subs), and very recently got to compare the magma SE to the Thomas Mayer 211. While in that system alone it could possibly have been a matter of synergy, the General recently heard a KR integrated there and said it was much better than Nat. I plan to hear it there. I have over the last year or so done more compares of kronzilla and the 200w KR va 200 (the latter to Vitus, the edge NL, Allnic, I will write a big report). I then in Dec compared the Nat magma SE to grandinote. I am now quite convinced the big Magmas lack nuance, speed, transience, dynamics. It is possible the lower watt models are better, I have only heard them on two different apogees which were not the right applications. Maybe the transmitter was his best but it is a while since I heard it. I suspect his preamps are better than his power amps and quite good, while I do not like the KR preamp.

The KR on the other hand in terms of drive and dynamics and energy is fantastic, it is better than the big push pull amps on tone, and loses only to lower watt SETs on tone and nuance. We recently did a compare with silvercore 833c 20w and preferred the latter, but that cannot be used for tougher to drive speakers.
 
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Ron Resnick

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This is just another data point, but I know that A.J. Conti liked NAT Transmitters on his Verity Audio speakers (probably Lohengrin II), and he liked his NAT Magmas on them even more.
 

bonzo75

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This is just another data point, but I know that A.J. Conti liked NAT Transmitters on his Verity Audio speakers (probably Lohengrin II), and he liked his NAT Magmas on them even more.

I am aware, question is if he compared them to jadis or KR
 

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