Some More Evidence that Kids (American and Japanese) Prefer Good Sound

[tonmeister2008]

-------That guy, Colliano, is he credible, reliable, honest, and solid?

For me, personally, he has been buried a long time ago. And same for his site and most of his reviewers staff.
If I was you, Sean, I would simply ignore him. But that's me, and everything I stand for. :b

Cheers,
Bob

P.S. By the way, high res audio (96/24, etc.) sounds much better than CD (44/16) to my ears. :b

I met him for the first time 3 weeks ago when he visited Harman. He seemed nice enough but I had nothing to do with who was invited, etc as the event was organized by our sales team.

I've not done any serious controlled listening comparisons between CD vs High Res formats. But I tend to agree with Amir that most of the high res recordings sound better simply because more care was taken in how they were recorded, mixed and mastered. A 24-bit/192 kHz recording of the latest Red Hot Chili Peppers album will sound equally as crappy and compressed as the same recording on CD;

 

[tonmeister2008]

---I don't know how many of you are familiar with BOSE table clock radios,
with integrated CD player; but they are the best sounding ones of that type.

I know; my Mum has one, my next door neighbor has one, ...
and they are surprisingly great sounding. :b
Think 'bout it: you got a tuner, a preamp, an amp, a CD player, speakers (stereo), integrated subwoofer, ...
you can put it anywhere, don't take much place, nice style, remote controlled, and for only $500.

Funny you mention that radio. My current girlfriend has one in her bedroom, and it has become the source of many jokes and derision. I almost bought her a HK replacement for Christmas. Luckily, so far only the radio seems to suffer from performance anxiety

Years ago, Harman developed a Bose Radio Killer after Dr. Sidney Harman's aunt asked for a Bose radio for her birthday. That was the final straw for Dr. Harman. A mandate came down to engineering to develop a killer competitor. The project was known internally as "Dr. Harman's Aunt's radio". Branded HK, it had more features, better performance, for less money. However, we didn't know how to market and sell it, and didn't have any advertising budget. It quickly failed in the marketplace soon after it was introduced.

 

[terryj]

My current girlfriend.

sounds like high turnover!

Please Sean, more posts yeah?

 

[NorthStar]

I met him for the first time 3 weeks ago when he visited Harman. He seemed nice enough but I had nothing to do with who was invited, etc as the event was organized by our sales team.

I've not done any serious controlled listening comparisons between CD vs High Res formats. But I tend to agree with Amir that most of the high res recordings sound better simply because more care was taken in how they were recorded, mixed and mastered. A 24-bit/192 kHz recording of the latest Red Hot Chili Peppers album will sound equally as crappy and compressed as the same recording on CD;

It's OK; Jerry is a strange animal, from past 'executions' on his site, and best is to know less. :b

* Some CDs sound awesome, and others terrible.
But in most general (high percentage average), high res audio (in various forms and from various resolutions) sound better. No doubt about it.

Funny you mention that radio. My current girlfriend has one in her bedroom, and it has become the source of many jokes and derision. I almost bought her a HK replacement for Christmas. Luckily, so far only the radio seems to suffer from performance anxiety

Years ago, Harman developed a Bose Radio Killer after Dr. Sidney Harman's aunt asked for a Bose radio for her birthday. That was the final straw for Dr. Harman. A mandate came down to engineering to develop a killer competitor. The project was known internally as "Dr. Harman's Aunt's radio". Branded HK, it had more features, better performance, for less money. However, we didn't know how to market and sell it, and didn't have any advertising budget. It quickly failed in the marketplace soon after it was introduced.

Yup, the real test is in the pudding (execution and market reality). :b
And I'm sure your girlfriend is truly satisfied with it (her BOSE radio). ...And with you too.

 

[Gregadd]

I like Bose! It is what it is.

 

[NorthStar]

... And they made some decent speakers, & pro monitors.
And 'bazooka' subwoofers for professional Theater avenues. :b

 

[tonmeister2008]

It's OK; Jerry is a strange animal, from past 'executions' on his site, and best is to know less. :b

* Some CDs sound awesome, and others terrible.
But in most general (high percentage average), high res audio (in various forms and from various resolutions) sound better. No doubt about it.



Yup, the real test is in the pudding (execution and market reality). :b
And I'm sure your girlfriend is truly satisfied with it (her BOSE radio). ...And with you too.

Yes, she is very satisfied with her Bose, and doesn't want anyone touching or replacing it. It has all the pace and rhythm she needs, and it's easy to use.

We've hired some senior Bose marketing people in the past year, so hopefully we can learn from their insights.

 

[JackD201]

Yes, she is very satisfied with her Bose, and doesn't want anyone touching or replacing it. It has all the pace and rhythm she needs, and its easy to use.

We've hired some senior Bose marketing people in the past year, so hopefully we can learn from their insights.

No need Sean. Here's the formula.

Make a decent product with focus on utility
Market the hell out of it
Do not change the product or rename it or replace it since you will have to market the replacement all over again
Keep on marketing it..........this time on infomercials, which is what they did and continue to do.
Differentiate by location not features. Put up retail stores of your own in malls and outlets so nobody can AB how inadequate your products are against the competition at the point of purchase.

PM me where you can send me what you would have paid those Bose marketing guys you hired for a month. LOL.

 

[NorthStar]

Like Jack said just above Sean, plus a lot of money ($$$$$$$$$) in 'smart' avertising indeed.
...And at the right strategic times of the day (tube), with female customers in mind. :b

 

[Ronm1]

A couple of phrases above jogged a few brain cells...

A few years ago daughter was dating this young fellow who had a # of part time jobs. They were both in there final year in college. One he just got was at a Bose mall store. He apparently was really looking forward to this for awhile cause its BOSE, of course. Since it was summer at the time, most of their time was spent outdoors(deck,pool). At some point I was a little tired of listening again to the Bose spiel, so in we go to the integrated 2ch/ht. Music first 2ch/Hirez and then a few movie touches. One of my favorites to demo was Mask of Zorro, used this a lot to show friends/colleagues how a properly setup room,h/w should sound. Somewhat early in HT 02/03 even basics were usually configured wrong. This dvd had an attract mode of Zorro with panning footsteps entering the screen and then slashing a fiery Z. Now this was in 2ch so the typical xceiver default was DPL(2). After selecting the audio track the same seq is replayed on intro but now in DD5.1/DTS. The diff is quite obvious, now discrete not simulated. A few weeks later he no longer had his heart in the Bose gig and left.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Just one man's opinion, but one man who has spent the last 25 years of so in strategic marketing -- If you want to stay behind your competition, imitate him; you'll stand in his shadow. If you want to be the best you can be, figure out who you are, what you aspire to, what your target markets want. Become it and sell that aggressively.

I would have hired great marketers who are music lovers, but have never worked in the category before. YMMV.

Tim

 

[NorthStar]

A couple of phrases above jogged a few brain cells...

A few years ago daughter was dating this young fellow who had a # of part time jobs. They were both in there final year in college. One he just got was at a Bose mall store. He apparently was really looking forward to this for awhile cause its BOSE, of course. Since it was summer at the time, most of their time was spent outdoors(deck,pool). At some point I was a little tired of listening again to the Bose spiel, so in we go to the integrated 2ch/ht. Music first 2ch/Hirez and then a few movie touches. One of my favorites to demo was Mask of Zorro, used this a lot to show friends/colleagues how a properly setup room,h/w should sound. Somewhat early in HT 02/03 even basics were usually configured wrong. This dvd had an attract mode of Zorro with panning footsteps entering the screen and then slashing a fiery Z. Now this was in 2ch so the typical xceiver default was DPL(2). After selecting the audio track the same seq is replayed on intro but now in DD5.1/DTS. The diff is quite obvious, now discrete not simulated. A few weeks later he no longer had his heart in the Bose gig and left.

---------

 

[Gregadd]

Manufactuirn public opinion

Good conceptual realists are accomplished experts at twisting facts to fit their beliefs, and at denying the existence of contradictory realities that are staring them in the face. They don't "perceive" the world with their senses then build up an idea of reality based on real world evidence. They "conceive" a world in their mind, then they only allow into their mind 'evidence' that confirms their worldview. It is pretty much a waste of time trying to have an intelligent conversation with a conceptual realist, unless you happen to share their delusion. Therein lies madness - “The Madness of Crowds”, perhaps.

Interesting


http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog2.php/2012/06/05/manufacturing-public-opinion

 

[Gregadd]

In shaping public opinion we can do three things:
a)We ca structure the questions;
b) We can manipulate the samples;and
c)We manipulate the pool of those to be sampled.

Let's take a simple an example.Llet's take nine persons of different weights. At one end there is a morbidly obeese man, in the middle there is one of average weight and at the end there is one extremely thin man.
We ask the question who is the fattest? Obviously the man on the end. Who is normal? The man In the middle? Who is the skinniest? The man own the end?
For a less predictable result? We can ask who is healthiest? Who is most attractive? Who do you prefer? We get different results?
Now let's manipulate our sample. let's remove the first individulas. Let's remove our last foru individuals. Let's remove the two indivduals form the end.
Now lastly lets' manipulate the sample .Differnent ages and races and cultures have cifferent ideas about what is fat, skinny or normal. We can manipulate the answers by changing the makeup of the individulas to be questioned.

We see then we have to be very careful about how we construct such studies and how we interpret the results. results can be just aseasily by error as by intention.

 

[Gregadd]

How do we reconcile the the constant appraisals that audiophiles love their euphonic distortions with Seans' findings?

I don't have the magazine but Nelson Pass said this: Even though his cable of making milspec amps they don't sell. It seems audiophiles want there amps to have character. I'll post hey exact quote tomorrow

 

[Tonepub]

Why do you have to reconcile anything?

People like what they like, you'll never change that. And you'll rarely convince them otherwise.

 

[NorthStar]

---... Unless ... :b

 

[Gregadd]

Why do you have to reconcile anything?

People like what they like, you'll never change that. And you'll rarely convince them otherwise.

We are consumers. Ultimately our opinion affect what comes to market.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

How do we reconcile the the constant appraisals that audiophiles love their euphonic distortions with Seans' findings?

I don't have the magazine but Nelson Pass said this: Even though his cable of making milspec amps they don't sell. It seems audiophiles want there amps to have character. I'll post hey exact quote tomorrow

I don't have any problem with it at all. I think capital A Audiophiles are among the last people who should trust their ears. I think thousands of them, all present company excepted, of course, prefer exactly what they're expected to prefer, until you turn out the lights, at which point Martin Logans are soundly beaten by cheap midfi Infinity's according to the numbers and the ears.

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

I don't have any problem with it at all. I think capital A Audiophiles are among the last people who should trust their ears. I think thousands of them, all present company excepted, of course, prefer exactly what they're expected to prefer, until you turn out the lights, at which point Martin Logans are soundly beaten by cheap midfi Infinity's according to the numbers and the ears.

Tim

I do not beleive I have heard any of the speakers posted in the OP. However Dr. Olive concedes the results of his test cannot be applied to the genral population . Indeed the combined population of of th U.S. and Japan is about 450 millilon. The 18-24 dmographic (where most of college students in the U.S. would fall) is around 27 million. I think the size of the test group was in the low 200's. If we include high school students of U.S.and H.S. studenta and college students of Japan the population would be even larger. The sample is too small.
I realize you want to declare victory. Not yet.Some More Evidence that Kids (American and Japanese) Prefer Good Sound



"While the small sample size of listeners in this test does not allow us to make generalizations to larger populations, nonetheless it is reassuring to find that both American and Japanese students, regardless of their critical listening experience, recognized good sound when they heard it, and preferred it to the lower quality options"