I read the following notes on an album ("Echoes of Ellington“) by jazz pianist Johnny Guarnieri: "The performances on this album were captured on a Stahnke Reproducing Piano, a normal piano fitted with a computerized recording/playback system. When a pianist plays on this piano, the movements...
We looked pretty seriously at a Spirio R which can both record (and edit) and playback.) At the time (around fall 2019) we saw and heard two Model B (not quite 7' grands). One was a NY Steinway and the other was a Hamburg Steinway. Price then was about $140K including the Spirio mechanism. We generally have liked the Hamburg Steinways better (although we understand they are getting closer in sound and touch) and we could have gone to Hamburg to pick one we liked, but we ended up not buying one. Impressed by the mechanism and the ability to record your own playing and using the software to correct errors and make subtle and not so subtle changes in tempo and dynamics. Also enjoyed hearing a bunch of famous and not so famous Steinway artists playing. Interestingly at that time, the superstars (like Yuja Wang) had only relatively short pieces in their catalogue. The longer pieces were by the lesser artists. There were also videos that showed the pianists playing on some of the pieces while the piano played what they were playing on the video. We were told about future concerts where you could see the live concert and hear the pieces played on your Spirio.
My understanding is that most of the Spirios have been sold to people who don't play the piano, but want a Steinway as a nice piece of living room furniture which can play itself. Certainly at the price point it is definitely a top 1% purchase (although there are several million in that category in the US alone.) I think the sales have gone up substantially.
We have two grands with our second one a Yamaha S400E which we bought in 1992. We bought it with a Disklavier mechanism so that we could record my wife's playing (very much like a Spirio R) although the editing software is much more crude. Many Yamaha artists have recorded on this system and Yamaha sells disks of their recordings (including some famous artists like Christoph Eschenbach and George Shearing - we have those disks). Since 1992 the Disklavier mechanism has been substantially improved according to Yamaha, now called the Enspire Pro. We haven't auditioned it.
We looked pretty seriously at a Spirio R which can both record (and edit) and playback.) At the time (around fall 2019) we saw and heard two Model B (not quite 7' grands). One was a NY Steinway and the other was a Hamburg Steinway. Price then was about $140K including the Spirio mechanism. We generally have liked the Hamburg Steinways better (although we understand they are getting closer in sound and touch) and we could have gone to Hamburg to pick one we liked, but we ended up not buying one. Impressed by the mechanism and the ability to record your own playing and using the software to correct errors and make subtle and not so subtle changes in tempo and dynamics. Also enjoyed hearing a bunch of famous and not so famous Steinway artists playing. Interestingly at that time, the superstars (like Yuja Wang) had only relatively short pieces in their catalogue. The longer pieces were by the lesser artists. There were also videos that showed the pianists playing on some of the pieces while the piano played what they were playing on the video. We were told about future concerts where you could see the live concert and hear the pieces played on your Spirio.
My understanding is that most of the Spirios have been sold to people who don't play the piano, but want a Steinway as a nice piece of living room furniture which can play itself. Certainly at the price point it is definitely a top 1% purchase (although there are several million in that category in the US alone.) I think the sales have gone up substantially.
We have two grands with our second one a Yamaha S400E which we bought in 1992. We bought it with a Disklavier mechanism so that we could record my wife's playing (very much like a Spirio R) although the editing software is much more crude. Many Yamaha artists have recorded on this system and Yamaha sells disks of their recordings (including some famous artists like Christoph Eschenbach and George Shearing - we have those disks). Since 1992 the Disklavier mechanism has been substantially improved according to Yamaha, now called the Enspire Pro. We haven't auditioned it.
My son and I tried out the Spirio R on a Steinway model B for one whole afternoon. The accuracy of reproducing the performance is uncanny. Sitting at the piano and hearing the replay from pieces I have recorded, I could not really hear any faults (other than my own !). Sitting away from the piano and hearing my son's playing and the replay, I could not detect any difference either. All the dynamics were reproduced accurately. I can see this as a very valuable tool. A few days later, I had a chat with Meng-Chieh Liu after hearing him play. He was Lang Lang's and Yujia Wang's professor at the Curtis. He told me he is involved in developing the Spiro into a teaching tool. Soon, students from all over the world can benefit from instructions from professors far away, connected through a pair of Spiro R equipped Steinways than can transmit the action in real time through a remote server. I would be interested in investing in such an instrument if there is the possibility of learning from world class teachers.
I have not tried the recent Boesendorfers equipped with the Yamaha system (Enspire Pro). The distributor in Hong Kong just sold the last one they have.
At the moment.
Why shouldn't Kawai, Yamaha and other manufactures not be able to come with a similar solution.
I think it's only a matter of time (if they decide it's beneficial).
Yamaha has also had digital player pianos for years. As far back as whatever you call those discs that came after the floppy. Even Bosendorfer has been in the game.
If I'm not mistaken they were or maybe still are MIDI based. What I remember is that with the new generation they have upped the data for both time and key pressure and actuators to replicate each key and pedal press. I forget which company's ad it was but the pianos in that ad were being pitched at piano students. Basically you could take remote lessons. That was before the pandemic mind you so zoom wasn't a thing yet LOL
Just received an invitation from our local Steinway Store to attend a live Spiriocast from NYC with pianist Wei Luo playing a concert that will be played through the local Steinway Model D (9 foot grand) with Spirio and a large screen video showing her playing in NYC with a similar Model D Spirio. I have to check our schedule, but it looks very interesting. Limited seating at the Steinway Store, so we have to RSVP. If you are interested, you might contact your local Steinway store to see whether they are doing the same thing. Feb 3 at 5PM Eastern (2 PM Pacific) in the US.
The information from the pianist's piano (that is the key strike and pedal information) is being transmitted to the local piano in real time which is then is duplicating the pianist's piano. In addition a live video of the performance is being sent to the local locations, so the image of the pianist will be playing on a screen while the notes the pianist is playing will be played by the local piano (with no local pianist). Should be very interesting. Larry
Steve and Philip O'Hanlon and Don Saltzman and several other WBF members and I saw the system demonstrated at an event hosted by Gary Leeds' son-in-law, who is a software engineer for Steinway & Sons.
The salesman at the Steinway showroom said that the Spirio R is much more advanced than the Yamaha system used in Boesendorfers. However, after reading the info on the Boesendorfer, it sounds pretty advanced as well and has been constantly improved since the early days of the Disk clavier. Moreover, the Boesendorfer has a silent option which allows the sound to be heard through headphones. My wife complains of me making too much noise (piano, hi fi etc.) all the time, so that would be perfect. I will definitely look into it some more.
The 7' Steinway we heard played by Greg has an enormous dynamic range with great tonal density. Greg's performance of the Debussy Preludes was sumptuous, better sounding than any recording of them I have in my large collection. If I could afford the piano, that would be the one!
Has anyone listened to this recording of Rachmaninov playing how own music via piano rolls he made during his lifetime between 1919 and 1929, but now played on a new 7 ft grand Mason & Hamlin with Ampico player machanism?
Not bad for a pianola! And great to hear Rachmaninov's own playing on something rather better than the 78 rpm records he cut in his own lifetime.
Has anyone listened to this recording of Rachmaninov playing how own music via piano rolls he made during his lifetime between 1919 and 1929, but now played on a new 7 ft grand Mason & Hamlin with Ampico player machanism?
Not bad for a pianola! And great to hear Rachmaninov's own playing on something rather better than the 78 rpm records he cut in his own lifetime.
Yes, I've had this Ampico CD for decades. Sonically it is better than most of my LPs and tapes of classical piano roll recordings (I have about 70 of them). It is not comparable to the live performance I heard. Also, the rolls lack subtle inflections and pedal work. They can provide the rhythmic and tonal reproduction of the pianist so I enjoy listening to them. One of my favorite non-classical piano roll CDs is The Greatest Ragtime of the Century. https://www.discogs.com/release/1052088-Various-The-Greatest-Ragtime-Of-The-Century
The Steinway system is absolutely superior to any of my other piano roll recordings. It's musically and audiophile quality better.
Yes, I've had this Ampico CD for decades. Sonically it is better than most of my LPs and tapes of classical piano roll recordings (I have about 70 of them). It is not comparable to the live performance I heard. Also, the rolls lack subtle inflections and pedal work. They can provide the rhythmic and tonal reproduction of the pianist so I enjoy listening to them. One of my favorite non-classical piano roll CDs is The Greatest Ragtime of the Century. https://www.discogs.com/release/1052088-Various-The-Greatest-Ragtime-Of-The-Century
The Steinway system is absolutely superior to any of my other piano roll recordings. It's musically and audiophile quality better.
As I understand the Ampico system, pedal work is included in the "recording" as is finger pressure.
I should seriously hope that the modern Steinway system is an improvement over the mechanical system used by Rachmaninov and his engineers using a system dating from about 1903! However I find it astonishing that one can listen to Rachmaninov playing a piano in 2019 reproduced with remarkable finesse on a modern grand piano and recorded in DDD for CD with zero background noise. Comparing this with his live recordings and the latter is un-listenable to in my view!
As I understand the Ampico system, pedal work is included in the "recording" as is finger pressure.
I should seriously hope that the modern Steinway system is an improvement over the mechanical system used by Rachmaninov and his engineers using a system dating from about 1903! However I find it astonishing that one can listen to Rachmaninov playing a piano in 2019 reproduced with remarkable finesse on a modern grand piano and recorded in DDD for CD with zero background noise. Comparing this with his live recordings and the latter is un-listenable to in my view!
I prefer listening to Rachmaninoff 78 rpm recordings with correct equalization and remastering without compression or noisegatng. Listening to him play Chopin Sonata No.2 is overwhelming despite the sonic deficiencies (
) Rachmaninoff playing Mendelssohn Scherzo....
Maybe it's just me, I have 7,000 78s and probably 25% of my now 52,000 LPs/CDs/78s/R2Rs are 78 rpm or cylinder recordings. With my high end system, I'm getting sound never imagined from those recording engineers.
P.S. This is the best Youtube I could find of the recording. My 78s and remastered transfer doesn't have the noisegating (awful isn't it)?
For What's Best Forum readers, listening to 78s won't provide the sonic nirvana we are searching for. For music lovers, they do.
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