Stereophile | January 2017 Issue

[Al M.]

No I would have to disagree. The hallmark of the B&O speaker is the technological innovation especially with the DSP and driver arrangement in the cabinet. The first time I listened to the speaker I could agree that it would be a setup and/or lack of firmware to not get the full 100% of the speaker capability.

Having now heard the speaker at its full potential and in the same room placement I can attest that the speaker is just ok and for 90K that is really disappointing. The imaging was just fine in the room. No smearing of the sound or out of balance between left and right channels. I could place the singer and instruments in the room without any trouble so I don't see how a better setup would make any substantial difference.The real heart of my problem with the speaker and that is the sound and tonal quality being just lifeless and artificial

That's obviously not Kal's opinion. Bring out the fighting gloves .

And Kal is not the only one with a very high opinion of the speaker.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, Is the set up at Selfridges any good, sound notwithstanding?

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, Is the set up at Selfridges any good, sound notwithstanding?

Well they have a room there, ask them to set it up there. It is just speakers, not a whole rack of electronics and analog, so should be easy

 

[bonzo75]

No I would have to disagree. The hallmark of the B&O speaker is the technological innovation especially with the DSP and driver arrangement in the cabinet. The first time I listened to the speaker I could agree that it would be a setup and/or lack of firmware to not get the full 100% of the speaker capability.

Having now heard the speaker at its full potential and in the same room placement I can attest that the speaker is just ok and for 90K that is really disappointing. The imaging was just fine in the room. No smearing of the sound or out of balance between left and right channels. I could place the singer and instruments in the room without any trouble so I don't see how a better setup would make any substantial difference.The real heart of my problem with the speaker and that is the sound and tonal quality being just lifeless and artificial

I agree with all this

 

[Al M.]

I agree with all this

Not until I have heard the speaker myself.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well they have a room there, ask them to set it up there. It is just speakers, not a whole rack of electronics and analog, so should be easy

It should be but, judging from appearances, apparently not.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I ll vist london next week if i have time i ll check out selfridges , otherwise there are several places in holland where they have them installed .
Being the best ,... no i dont think so , because of being a digital active design and scanspeak illuminator mids used which ( looks like it at least ) are good but ,... not the best imo same goes for woofers ., and a 65 kg alu cabinet ( total weight iirc 135 kg/speaker )
What i do find " ground breaking " is the omnidirectional sound which they try to achieve and off course the tonecontrol s directivity adjustment software and what not , and how that plays out , its a very modern design thats for sure.

Ps pricewise they are not expensive imo , you get a active speaker and those illuminator mids / tweeters are not cheap and they use a lot of them ( 18 drivers in total ) , plus its a cast alu design , they go for 35 K / speaker over here

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

That's obviously not Kal's opinion. Bring out the fighting gloves .

And Kal is not the only one with a very high opinion of the speaker.

The speaker does more things right than wrong and no two people hear things the same way which will always attribute to a healthy amount of room for marketplace differentiation to thrive in.

My main gripe is that in most of the circumstances that end up causing issues with getting the most out of a speaker have to do with electronics which is negated with the B&O. Most speaker companies partner based on financial needs so the quality of the listening session can vary greatly which will never be the case with the B&O (especially with the tonal quality). If they have the newest firmware, B&O hands in charge of placement, and all of its own DSP, DAC and Amplification then the variance between sessions are greatly diminished. The issues of the room (the other big variance) can be heard and its problems isolated so you know it is the room and not the speaker.

I value Kal's opinions and reading the latest review in Stereophile is what prompted me to give them another listen since they are here in D-town Austin. It just happens to be I have a difference on a few areas than Kals. Part of the life of audio

I am always eager to hear new technology innovations as I am an audiophile long before I decided to make a business out of it. If something cool and unique comes along I want to hear. I had high hopes from a speaker company that favors "lifestyle" design so I am not at all disappointed.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Beo
Lab 90
BeoLab 90
-
a game
-
changer in the sound business and the new
flagship
loudspeaker
from Bang & Olufsen that gives the customer an unprecedented level
of
control of the acoustic behaviour and performance.
Designed by Frackenpohl
and
Poulheim, the
135
kg powerhouse leaves a significant
footprint on your music experience. Its pentagonal shape combined with the
rhombus shape of its black fabric covers, which like sails hover above the driver
units give
BeoLab 90 a unique and impressive appearance.
Te
chnically, BeoLab 90 offers a number of unique approaches to great sound
experiences in your home
• Uncompromising innovation with a radical
ly accurate
sound staging
• Exceptional flexibility in room adaptation and placement
Materials:
Aluminium,
fabric
and
oak
wood
Dimensions (W x H x D):
23.5 x 125.
3 x 74.
7 cm
Weight:
137
kg
each
Acoustic components
Speaker drivers:
TWEETER: 7 x Scan
-
Speak Illuminator 30 mm
MIDRANGE:
7
x
Scan
-
Speak Illuminator 86 mm
WOOFER:
3
x Scan
-
Speak Discovery 212 mm
FRONT WO
OFER: 1 x Scan
-
Speak Revelator 260 mm
Amplifiers (custom
-
designed for BeoLab 90)
:
FOR TWEETERS: 7
x
B
ang & Olufsen ICEpower
AM300
-
X
F
OR MIDRANGE DRIVERS
: 7 x Bang & Olufsen ICEpower AM300
-
X
FOR WOOFERS: 3
x
HELIOX AM1000
-
1
FOR FRONT WOOFER: 1 x
HELIOX AM1
000
-
1

 

[astrotoy]

I've been very impressed by the new ML Neoliths, which I have now heard several times at my consultant's place. Powered by the big Constellation amps and preamp, using his Ampex ATR-102 as a source, playing some of my 1/2" safety master tapes and some ripped CDs played through a PM Model Two. They replaced a pair of Magico M projects. Not sure which was better since I couldn't hear them back to back. But the ML's were very fine. Quite spectacular looking also - the pair he has is Rosso Fuoco. They are more than the ESL15A's of this thread (3 times more), but quite a bit less than the Magicos they replaced.

Larry

 

[FrantzM]

I don't think the majority of posters on WBF are the target audience for the B&O speaker. (I might be an exception assuming I had an extra $90,000 to spare). First of, it has DSP in it and that unto itself would eliminate a large portion of the group. If an audiophile won't use DSP for room correction for more traditional speakers, they sure has heck wouldn't consider it in this speaker. Secondly, it is offered by B&O which is not exactly a name associated with "high end audio"; and lastly it is way outside the "conventional speaker approach".

I have heard it in less than an ideal environment and the potential is obvious (at least to my ears).

+1

And to go a little bit further:
The speakers hit all the wrong notes for the "Orthodox" audiophile:

Active
DSP
Class D
Room Correction
Bang & Olufsen

this company doesn't go with any of the audiophile closely-held tenants : Cables. Special Cables, Special vibration Control. Separate components. Plus it seems B&O has fumbled somehow the opening with a speaker whose real world adjustability doesn't seem to be as easily performed as exemplified by Kal samples which had a particular EQ...

Many will come to the speakers with heightened negativity and will not able to judge the speaker with any sense of objectivity ( I had to say that ) ... I , speaking for myself do know the power of negative feeling toward products or brands. I know that when confronted with a JBL K2, I hardly wrote about it. I attributed the lovely sound from to the genre played in that case big band but honestly and perhaps conveniently forgot that I also heard small scale classical and very large ( Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand, the 8th) on it in all cases reproduced with brio and poise and spectacularly... At this point I was sooo focused on the Magico Q3 that I hardly mentioned all that ... I still love the Q3 but it can't in my view hold a candle to the JBL K2 and frankly with an open mind most audiophile darlings cannot begin to compare to these either.
We do that and we expect certain things to sound like we heard them once or believed they have to. Horns come to mind.. Until recently horn were seen as Out of the beaten path fare for eccentric audiophiles ... We saw with a certain suspicion the fondness the Japanese have for JBL products ... JBL ...JBL ???!!! Now some have heard them under more audiophile or more mainstream audiophile condition and slowly it is dawning on many, yours very truly that horns for all those years had the answers for many of the wrongs thing we perceive with most speakers especially the audiophile darlings box multi drivers or planars ...
Now a Danish company more known for its Lifestyle system choices than its audio chops (that their Ice power modules are in many an audiophile products doesn't really count since said products are definitely class D or/and at least are perceived to have been tweaked to perfection by an Audiophile Guru ''') is daring to bring an odd looking system ( you hook sources) to a crowd (not the WBF only ) but audiophiles at large, especially those who hear nuances between Ethernet cables .... and tell them that this activespeaker is a world beater??!! It can't fly .. It won't fly.

Happy Holidays my friends!!!

 

[sbo6]

With due respect I think you might be discrediting audiophiles' ability to just listen and judge irrespective of adjustability of cables, DACs, etc. As I stated earlier and I believe Joshua came to essentially the same conclusion, there was no there - there. Meaning I found the speaker tonality dry and music - less. I may go back now that they supposedly have the latest FW and are tuned appropriately but I bet I come back with the same basic assessment.

I wonder what a Dalek would think of them?

+1

And to go a little bit further:
The speakers hit all the wrong notes for the "Orthodox" audiophile:

Active
DSP
Class D
Room Correction
Bang & Olufsen

this company doesn't go with any of the audiophile closely-held tenants : Cables. Special Cables, Special vibration Control. Separate components. Plus it seems B&O has fumbled somehow the opening with a speaker whose real world adjustability doesn't seem to be as easily performed as exemplified by Kal samples which had a particular EQ...

Many will come to the speakers with heightened negativity and will not able to judge the speaker with any sense of objectivity ( I had to say that ) ... I , speaking for myself do know the power of negative feeling toward products or brands. I know that when confronted with a JBL K2, I hardly wrote about it. I attributed the lovely sound from to the genre played in that case big band but honestly and perhaps conveniently forgot that I also heard small scale classical and very large ( Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand, the 8th) on it in all cases reproduced with brio and poise and spectacularly... At this point I was sooo focused on the Magico Q3 that I hardly mentioned all that ... I still love the Q3 but it can't in my view hold a candle to the JBL K2 and frankly with an open mind most audiophile darlings cannot begin to compare to these either.
We do that and we expect certain things to sound like we heard them once or believed they have to. Horns come to mind.. Until recently horn were seen as Out of the beaten path fare for eccentric audiophiles ... We saw with a certain suspicion the fondness the Japanese have for JBL products ... JBL ...JBL ???!!! Now some have heard them under more audiophile or more mainstream audiophile condition and slowly it is dawning on many, yours very truly that horns for all those years had the answers for many of the wrongs thing we perceive with most speakers especially the audiophile darlings box multi drivers or planars ...
Now a Danish company more known for its Lifestyle system choices than its audio chops (that their Ice power modules are in many an audiophile products doesn't really count since said products are definitely class D or/and at least are perceived to have been tweaked to perfection by an Audiophile Guru ''') is daring to bring an odd looking system ( you hook sources) to a crowd (not the WBF only ) but audiophiles at large, especially those who hear nuances between Ethernet cables .... and tell them that this activespeaker is a world beater??!! It can't fly .. It won't fly.

Happy Holidays my friends!!!

 

[Al M.]

And to go a little bit further:
The speakers hit all the wrong notes for the "Orthodox" audiophile:

Active
DSP
Class D
Room Correction
Bang & Olufsen

The designer of my Reference 3A speakers has always sworn by tubes, and even sells tube amps. Yet at the last show or shows he ran his speakers with Merrill Audio class D (oh the horror!) amps. He loved the sound.

And so did a reviewer:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/AXPONA_2016/Merrill_Audio_Reference_3a_EMM_Labs_Nordost_Stillpoints/

And another one:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/reichert-rocks-it-sunday

It can't fly .. It won't fly.

But that is exactly why I am interested in actually hearing that thing. Thinking out of the box and such...Not that I can afford it or it would fit in my room, just curiosity and an opportunity to potentially enjoy the shredding of some dogmas...

 

[NorthStar]

The luckiest people are the ones with a good setup. Kal is a lucky man...with the BeoLab 90.
And Jon Iverson with the ML Renaissance ESL 15A.

 

[bonzo75]

+1

And to go a little bit further:
The speakers hit all the wrong notes for the "Orthodox" audiophile:

Active
DSP
Class D
Room Correction
Bang & Olufsen

this company doesn't go with any of the audiophile closely-held tenants : Cables. Special Cables, Special vibration Control. Separate components. Plus it seems B&O has fumbled somehow the opening with a speaker whose real world adjustability doesn't seem to be as easily performed as exemplified by Kal samples which had a particular EQ...

Many will come to the speakers with heightened negativity and will not able to judge the speaker with any sense of objectivity ( I had to say that ) ... I , speaking for myself do know the power of negative feeling toward products or brands. I know that when confronted with a JBL K2, I hardly wrote about it. I attributed the lovely sound from to the genre played in that case big band but honestly and perhaps conveniently forgot that I also heard small scale classical and very large ( Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand, the 8th) on it in all cases reproduced with brio and poise and spectacularly... At this point I was sooo focused on the Magico Q3 that I hardly mentioned all that ... I still love the Q3 but it can't in my view hold a candle to the JBL K2 and frankly with an open mind most audiophile darlings cannot begin to compare to these either.
We do that and we expect certain things to sound like we heard them once or believed they have to. Horns come to mind.. Until recently horn were seen as Out of the beaten path fare for eccentric audiophiles ... We saw with a certain suspicion the fondness the Japanese have for JBL products ... JBL ...JBL ???!!! Now some have heard them under more audiophile or more mainstream audiophile condition and slowly it is dawning on many, yours very truly that horns for all those years had the answers for many of the wrongs thing we perceive with most speakers especially the audiophile darlings box multi drivers or planars ...
Now a Danish company more known for its Lifestyle system choices than its audio chops (that their Ice power modules are in many an audiophile products doesn't really count since said products are definitely class D or/and at least are perceived to have been tweaked to perfection by an Audiophile Guru ''') is daring to bring an odd looking system ( you hook sources) to a crowd (not the WBF only ) but audiophiles at large, especially those who hear nuances between Ethernet cables .... and tell them that this activespeaker is a world beater??!! It can't fly .. It won't fly.

Happy Holidays my friends!!!

Like sb06, I will start with "with due respect". With due respect, that is quite a strawman argument Frantz. Have you been on the UK forums, where it's all horns, and Wilson and Magico are only considered as safe gets for the used market, nothing more? There are many forums where horns are considered the best, in fact quite unfairly, given how many small horns are crap. JBL has a large variance among its products, it's the DIY JBL horns which are really good, and I think the commercial ones like K2 ride on the JBL legacy.

The ones not liking B&O here are actually the ones that like off beat speakers (Aries cerat, restored apogee, and horns you are not aware that exist) you have never heard, so to say B&O is not liked for the reasons you stated is a strawman provocative argument with no foundation

 

[audioguy]

Yeah, but wouldn't it be beautiful if you could blow away all your audiophile friends' systems with a B&O? What delicious irony if that were true.

As long as those "audiophile" friends did not know what they were listening to (cover the speakers with some acoustically transparent black cloth), and after the raving, pull off the covers - and THEN watch faces. Now THAT would be a beautiful thing to see !!

 

[Argonaut]

I've been very impressed by the new ML Neoliths, which I have now heard several times at my consultant's place. Powered by the big Constellation amps and preamp, using his Ampex ATR-102 as a source, playing some of my 1/2" safety master tapes and some ripped CDs played through a PM Model Two. They replaced a pair of Magico M projects. Not sure which was better since I couldn't hear them back to back. But the ML's were very fine. Quite spectacular looking also - the pair he has is Rosso Fuoco. They are more than the ESL15A's of this thread (3 times more), but quite a bit less than the Magicos they replaced.

Larry

Rather encouraging comments on behalf of ML there Larry, as the recent Neolith demo day held at KJW1 in London was an unmitigated disaster for the product, to a degree my own opinion included, with several pre disposed sceptics dining out upon that particular cadava to this day.

In The main due to an wholly un synergistic pairing of ancillary equipment ( Imposed for commercial advertising ) not to mention the transducers being mysteriously re positioned at the last minute without the knowledge of the KJ staff, whome had spent the whole day previously dialling them optimally into the demo room, as they heard it, a few cm's here and there can be crucial as most Stat owners would attest.

 

[audioguy]

so to say B&O is not liked for the reasons you stated is a strawman provocative argument with no foundation

I have LOTS of foundation. I was in the very high end audio business for a long time, have been reading WBF for as many years as it has existed and prior to WBF, read the other "high end" forums...... Frantz is spot on. I noted there would be exceptions (there have been for as long as "high end" has been around) BUT, agree or not, EVERYONE has expectation bias. The response to this speaker is no different than if Bose (the laughing stock of audiophiles world wide) were to come up with some truly high end, out of the box spectacular speaker design. It would never get out of the starting gate. Fortunately for Bose, they are not that stupid!!!

 

[Argonaut]

You have to listen to a properly set and amplified Quad ESL63 - IMHO imaging at its best. Fine detail can bring an huge amount to imaging.

I quite agree micro, as with most if not all Panel transducers.

 

[MPS]

I'm a bit surprised of so many comments questioning B&O's role as part of development of audio history. Sure their products have been aiming for design priority market but that has probably been a wise decision considering competition from traditional almost conservative equipment from west and mass production optimized equipment from east.
As far as I know B&O has been quite active in R'n'D for decades just have a look at various patents they are holding:
http://patents.justia.com/assignee/bang-olufsen-a-s