Subject: Center Speaker Recommendations for Main Horn Speakers

[Zeotrope]

I would expect Bill Woods' horns to work extremely well in a "time/intensity trading" configuration in phantom center mode, with the speaker axes criss-crossing in front of the central sweet spot.

Thanks. Indeed, the soundstage is wide, deep, and very focused. You could have a fake center speaker and listeners would never believe it’s not working.
My view of surround is less is more. Apply the same budget to fewer speakers and amplifiers and you’ll enjoy better sound.

You don’t need 10+ channels in most rooms. With a Trinnov, it will route all of the channels to the speakers you have, including creating virtual output channels.

 

[Duke LeJeune]

Thanks. Indeed, the soundstage is wide, deep, and very focused. You could have a fake center speaker and listeners would never believe it’s not working.

Yes, a good constant-directivity horn can do that!

Recently one of my clients had a friend who works for a fairly well known Southern California company that makes audio processors over for a visit. They watched a couple of show-off-my-system movie clips and some music videos. When they were done and the screen retracted towards the ceiling, the friend had a moment of cognitive dissonance, eyes searching the wall behind where the screen had been in disbelief, when there was no center-channel speaker hidden behind the screen. I've had several clients sell their rather expensive center-channel speakers because they preferred the sound quality and spatial quality in phantom center mode.

Just curious, which Bill Woods horns are you using? And, if you happen to know, what is the coverage angle of their radiation pattern?

Thanks!

 

[Francesco tube fan]

I like the Kondo Souga!
What horn is this for the center?

@Duke LeJeune how would you expect conical (straight sided) horns like the Bill Woods designs to perform in terms of radiation patterns as a phantom center?

avantgarde colibrì c2

 

[Zeotrope]

Yes, a good constant-directivity horn can do that!

Recently one of my clients had a friend who works for a fairly well known Southern California company that makes audio processors over for a visit. They watched a couple of show-off-my-system movie clips and some music videos. When they were done and the screen retracted towards the ceiling, the friend had a moment of cognitive dissonance, eyes searching the wall behind where the screen had been in disbelief, when there was no center-channel speaker hidden behind the screen. I've had several clients sell their rather expensive center-channel speakers because they preferred the sound quality and spatial quality in phantom center mode.

Just curious, which Bill Woods horns are you using? And, if you happen to know, what is the coverage angle of their radiation pattern?

Thanks!

Interesting!
I am using the Bill Woods AH!300 horn. Attaching some info from his old website.

Bill was going to design a complete speaker for me, but then OMA's Jonathan Weiss shut him down in a Trumpian fit because I asked too many questions about OMA and wanted to prevent me from having a Bill Woods' horn. (Not to digress, but I think Fremer just experienced the kind of person Weiss is, and I have a much better system than anything from OMA, so all's well.)

 

[Zeotrope]

I would expect Bill Woods' horns to work extremely well in a "time/intensity trading" configuration in phantom center mode, with the speaker axes criss-crossing in front of the central sweet spot.

Duke, can you elaborate more on the recommendation to criss-cross in front of the central sweet spot?
I just did a deep dive on channel balance, using tracks like the Roger Waters Q-Sound Late Home Tonight Pt. 1, and tracks with a solo female vocalist centered, such as Patricia Barber’s This Town.
When you nail balance, wow, does it make a difference! It’s not just L-R localization but the size of the vocalist is more realistic, and everything just snaps into focus.

What I noticed however is that head position makes a difference as well. This could be because my conical midrange are aimed at the ears, not crossed in front of the listening position? I sit about 3m away, so it’s a near field setup, with the central axis (i.e., a line drawn from the throat of the midrange) lined up to the ear.

 

[Francesco tube fan]

I like the Kondo Souga!
What horn is this for the center?

@Duke LeJeune how would you expect conical (straight sided) horns like the Bill Woods designs to perform in terms of radiation patterns as a phantom center?

Avantgarde colibrì c2