Bad luck for Richard and Supatrac that the cartridge originally installed on the Nighthawk arm was defective, but Down Under’s comments about the Nighthawk’s performance with a lesser AT cartridge is certainly consistent with what I’ve heard from this superb tonearm in my system. I can only imagine how good the sonics would have been had a Tesselate or comparable (properly functioning) cartridge been installed on the Nighthawk arm.
Supatrac Nighthawk Tonearm
- Thread starter SCULLERHBW
- Start date
I'm loath to respond to this because sometimes it seems like there are particular off-topic themes that infiltrate every thread, but can you explain how tilting a bearing on its side destroys it?
I had assumed that since the bearing is designed to endure tens of thousands of hours of rotation, on a bouncy platform, with a heavy platter mounted, and oscillating torque forces combined with the start-up shivers, that gently turning it on its side, stationary, without the platter mounted should be fine.
Is the Karousel bushing made of wet plasticine?
BTW I should point out that my Sondek uses rubber grommets to support the sub-chassis, not springs, so there are no issues with spoiling the temperamental suspension set-up.
I accept that other Sondeks may require more careful handling, but they are not in the video.
I accept that other Sondeks may require more careful handling, but they are not in the video.
Looking back over this thread, I see that this thoroughly misleading claim has still not been deleted or retracted.
For the record, SUPATRAC has never increased the price of anything from $3000 to $16000. A Blackbird still costs 3900 GBP and the Nighthawk price has never been increased.
That post was like a complaint that a restaurant charges $2 for a coffee (fair) but has 'increased' the price to $12 for the 8oz chateaubriand (an outrage!). An entirely irrational complaint.
The Blackbird and the Nighthawk are not the same product in labour cost, parts cost, production quantity, weight, intent, or performance. That's why they are not the same price - like a coffee and a chateaubriand.
Please delete or retract your misleading comment, for the sake of honesty.
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In a respectful way, without any intention to denigrate your tonearm (which I have been told sounds EXCEPTIONAL - being an Aro owner, and thus a unipivot arm fan) I will say your LP12 without springs is no longer a Linn Sondek LP12.
As for the bearing issue I have watched my LP12 assembled and reassembled more times than I care to count by my fettler who travels internationally to maintain my deck. Setup without a Linn jig, and with the subplatter inside the bearing well and tilted like that, is a no no. You are risking damage to an extremely high tolerance, glass finish well machined component.
Once again no negative vibes intended - but you may want to consider investing in a jig (at a negligible cost) - if anything to make the installation video look more appropriate for an LP12 build. People watching the video might get the wrong impression and conclude setup without a jig (or something jig like) is factory approved - which it is not.
Best wishes
I take your point that it might give people the wrong impression.
It's an LP12 without springs, and to my taste, all the better for it. Don't forget it still has the full musicaliciousfulnessity of those three little wood screws nervously teased into a medite arm board which is the ultimate energy/vibration control technology according to 1989's Linnuminati! ;-)
Why? Im not asking for doctrine, I'm asking if you have heard any sensible scientifically-feasible argument for the idea that anything in the bearing is plastic enough (in property, not name) to be deformed or broken in this way. To my mind, if the bushings are not elastic enough to cope with this then they are not going to endure thousands of hours of wobbly rotation with the platter installed.
I agree in principle - I wouldn't transport the deck with the sub-platter installed because it would be liable to shock when the box is thrown around by a fellow ape, but that's not what's happening here. The deck is raised gently and carefully and my estimate is that the torque on the spindle is well below what it would take to permanently deform the bearing. If that movement "destroys" the bearing, then, frankly, it deserves it.
Heck, my Technics G-class decks shipped with a whole motor hanging on the bearing. They must be absolutely "destroyed" too.
If you read the earlier comments, you’ll see that the complaint is about the price increase for a new model that isn’t significantly different. The entire thread is about the Nighthawk, and the criticisms are mostly related to its price tag. Why is a new tonearm that’s not so different exponentially more expensive than its predecessor? That’s the question—and I’m not convinced that the Nighthawk is so much better or different in build quality compared to the Blackbird to justify the price difference.
Let me use your coffee analogy: a $2 coffee is now $12 just because it has milk—because it’s very different from the original $2 black coffee, and milk was never an option before.
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It's really not like that at all, as has been explained severally, but you know best. Presumably you complain that some capacitors, coins and cars cost five times as much as others because they 'just add milk'. The two models are not the same. No price was increased to $16000. You made it up.
Anyway let's keep audio fun and enjoy the music!
Since it’s impossible to replace it, here is a more accurate version of my below post upon your request
But they increased the price instantly and exponentially—from the $3,000 Blackbird to the not-so-different $16,000 Nighthawk—which certainly doesn’t align with the questionable claims of improved build quality IMO.
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Ideas - the ideas that drive innovation - have value in the marketplace, despite the forces in the world now that appear to be devaluing ideas. The Nighthawk tonearm reflects numerous ideas that Supatrac had - the result no doubt of many hours of experimentation, trial and error, and listening - for increasing rigidity in the arm (including the pivot area, the entire length of the arm, the “headshell” area, etc.) and in turn reducing vibration and noise and collectively improving sonics. Those ideas and the effort it took to arrive at them have value and should be compensated. Personally, having listened extensively now to how the Nighthawk tonearm sounds, I cannot say that the price Supatrac charges for the Nighthawk is unreasonable. To the contrary, numerous reviewers in major audio world publications worldwide have compared both the Blackbird’s and Nighthawk’s performance very favorably with arms costing tens of thousands of dollars more. That seems like a fair bargain to me.
"questionable claims".
I have been explicit about the additional work that goes into the Nighthawk, and you can see by inspection that it is a stiffer-built arm. The arm tube itself soaks up a lot of skilled man-hours and we've had no luck finding a partner to make them more quickly. Judging by your comments it almost seems that you would be happy to see another tone-arm maker go the way of Jelco. I don't know why.
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