Tesla Model 3 | Tesla seeks $1.5 billion junk bonds issue to fund Model 3 production

[Steve williams]

Thanks for understanding.

I have looked into solar and will be taking the plunge sooner rather than later, it's a good idea... but manufacturing solar cells isn't necessarily environmentally friendly, just like lithium batteries. It's not free energy, you get a defined return on investment over the life of the solar cell that may not be quite as favorable as one might assume, and this doesn't take into account pollution, which is a major issue as well. There is no free lunch.

I also agree with not taking the plunge on an EV right this second... it's questionable if it's really doing any good.

However, what would do a great amount of good would be to figure out how to use less energy around the home and office. Especially larger homes where all the space isn't used all the time, yet it's heated and cooled anyways. This would make a much larger difference vs what kind of car you drive imo.

The other reason I went with Sun Power is that their panels after 25 years are guaranteed to produce 90-92% of their initial specs

 

[NorthStar]

no, I'm not touching that. I'm having a nice peaceful Saturday.

Lol, I like that. :b

 

[Priaptor]

Thanks for understanding.

I have looked into solar and will be taking the plunge sooner rather than later, it's a good idea... but manufacturing solar cells isn't necessarily environmentally friendly, just like lithium batteries. It's not free energy, you get a defined return on investment over the life of the solar cell that may not be quite as favorable as one might assume, and this doesn't take into account pollution, which is a major issue as well. There is no free lunch.

I also agree with not taking the plunge on an EV right this second... it's questionable if it's really doing any good.

However, what would do a great amount of good would be to figure out how to use less energy around the home and office. Especially larger homes where all the space isn't used all the time, yet it's heated and cooled anyways. This would make a much larger difference vs what kind of car you drive imo.

Couldn't agree more. I keep all my thermostats at 75-77, my upstairs, even though "one zone" I converted to a pseudo-3 zone system using Honeywell damper system which essentially shunts air to those "zones" needed shutting the dampers where it isn't necessary. My bills have gone down 30-50% depending upon the time of year. Use all adjustable LED lights which I can adjust and lower the power utilization. As my AC units die, they have been replaced with high efficiency that run at two different speeds. Using fans at low speeds to circulate the air instead of the AC. It all matters and no doubt reduces my carbon footprint much more than any EV. There may be a time I go EV but it's not there yet. There may be a time I go solar on the roof, but it's not there yet.

 

[Empirical Audio]

no, I'm not touching that. I'm having a nice peaceful Saturday.

I though so. I have found that most conservatives hate big government, until they need it, like when they need FEMA to be rescued or when they lose their job and need unemployment, or maybe when their life savings is taken by fraud and the FDIC reimburses them.

Or maybe when their son or daughter is poisoned by a nearby coal operation and gets cancer. It's nice to have an EPA that actually DOES ITS JOB. Or maybe when a drug company that releases a drug too soon damages a loved one because the FDA is too lax to properly test and regulate it. OR maybe a son or daughter that gets measles or whooping cough because the Federal regulations for immunization are too lax.

The point is that big government is not about taking your money and wasting it. It's all about protecting you and your loved ones. It's about protecting all of our natural resources. It's about security and peace of mind. It's about making the American dream accessible to all. It's about participating in the world order and making it a better, safer place. This is what used to be great about the US.

Steve N.

 

[Steve williams]

Couldn't agree more. I keep all my thermostats at 75-77, my upstairs, even though "one zone" I converted to a pseudo-3 zone system using Honeywell damper system which essentially shunts air to those "zones" needed shutting the dampers where it isn't necessary. My bills have gone down 30-50% depending upon the time of year. Use all adjustable LED lights which I can adjust and lower the power utilization. As my AC units die, they have been replaced with high efficiency that run at two different speeds. Using fans at low speeds to circulate the air instead of the AC. It all matters and no doubt reduces my carbon footprint much more than any EV. There may be a time I go EV but it's not there yet. There may be a time I go solar on the roof, but it's not there yet.

I have gone all LED for the past 1 year and this did reduce our electric bill

The other thing that is popular in our neck of the woods is Quiet Cool central fans

I also agree about using more efficient AC units

 

[Priaptor]

I though so. I have found that most conservatives hate big government, until they need it, like when they need FEMA to be rescued or when they lose their job and need unemployment, or maybe when their life savings is taken by fraud and the FDIC reimburses them.

Or maybe when their son or daughter is poisoned by a nearby coal operation and gets cancer. It's nice to have an EPA that actually DOES ITS JOB. Or maybe when a drug company that releases a drug too soon damages a loved one because the FDA is too lax to properly test and regulate it. OR maybe a son or daughter that gets measles or whooping cough because the Federal regulations for immunization are too lax.

The point is that big government is not about taking your money and wasting it. It's all about protecting you and your loved ones. It's about protecting all of our natural resources. It's about security and peace of mind. It's about making the American dream accessible to all. It's about participating in the world order and making it a better, safer place. This is what used to be great about the US.

Steve N.

Please stop the propaganda. Let's not go down this road as the discussion has been on topic and a good one without politics entering it.

 

[Empirical Audio]

First what is the goal of reducing CO2 emissions? To prevent “global warming” or more appropriately to improve our environment which is what rising C02 theoretically interferes with, no? The direct and devastating effects on local ecosystems as a result of dams and their effects is overwhelming. Again it’s a compromise that we have to be willing to live with but make no mistake dams upset the fragile balance of local ecosystems as well as river deltas.

As to your question it’s a two fold effect. The more stagnant the water the higher the build up of bacteria with significant increase in methane production. Same in the river deltas.

No better example of this than along the CO river with their “man made lakes” and silt etc as well as the devastation of the CO river delta. The Columbia River likewise has similar (and different) issues but production of methane from your hydroelectric sources normalized for gallons/minute is not as severe but still high.

The point is that everything is a compromise and nothing is perfect and I just can’t stand dams but understand their need.

Have you ever been to the Columbia River? I have never seen any stagnant water there. I have toured the biggest dams, including the one that supplies my power, Bonneville. The biggest problem we have is interference with the salmon runs, but the fish ladders work quite well. The big problem now with Salmon runs is that the smaller tributaries where the salmon spawn are getting too warm due to GW. Most of the rivers in CA do not have runs anymore.

Steve N.

 

[Priaptor]

I have gone all LED for the past 1 year and this did reduce our electric bill

The other thing that is popular in our neck of the woods is Quiet Cool central fans

I also agree about using more efficient AC units

Another very good thing to do, if you haven't already, is to get something like a NEST thermostat. It "learns" but more importantly, they sell a slave unit that talks to your main thermostat. It shows the difference between temperatures. I had a 4 degree difference between the hallway and living room (that no one uses) compared to the kitchen area and family room facing the sun that everyone uses. The slave unit really help me close different vents to get a more evenly distributed AC air flow.

 

[Steve williams]

Another very good thing to do, if you haven't already, is to get something like a NEST thermostat. It "learns" but more importantly, they sell a slave unit that talks to your main thermostat. It shows the difference between temperatures. I had a 4 degree difference between the hallway and living room (that no one uses) compared to the kitchen area and family room facing the sun that everyone uses. The slave unit really help me close different vents to get a more evenly distributed AC air flow.

I've used a complete NEST system (2 thermostats and outdoor and indoor cameras) for the past 2-3 years.

If you do a search I did a thread on NEST. Yes it learns. I love it

 

[Steve williams]

Howie

we are way OT here. I suggest we get back on track.

 

[Empirical Audio]

I have gone all LED for the past 1 year and this did reduce our electric bill

The other thing that is popular in our neck of the woods is Quiet Cool central fans

I also agree about using more efficient AC units

I have done all that too. What makes me mad is all of the hospitals, doctors offices and other businesses that have not changed to LEDs. This could make a big difference. I cannot even convince my own parents to throw away the incandescent bulbs in the closet and replace with LEDs.

Steve N.

 

[Priaptor]

Have you ever been to the Columbia River? I have never seen any stagnant water there. I have toured the biggest dams, including the one that supplies my power, Bonneville. The biggest problem we have is interference with the salmon runs, but the fish ladders work quite well. The big problem now with Salmon runs is that the smaller tributaries where the salmon spawn are getting too warm due to GW. Most of the rivers in CA do not have runs anymore.

Steve N.

Often. Fish ladders are a "feel good" thing, I guess better than nothing but not much.

Your obvious bias to ignore the reality on the ground and right in your own backyard and blame GW for the salmon destruction and spawning is hysterical. BUT believe what you want. I will pay attention to the science that you claim we Conservatives ignore.

Yes your system of dams all over the NW are contributing TREMENDOUSLY to greenhouse gases despite what you "see" on your tour. You are kidding me with this line of reasoning, aren't you?? Do you know why it's called the Bonneville Dam? Because when they built the dam, near the falls, the river raised SIGNIFICANTLY to cover the "Bonneville Falls", which by physics, reduced the rate of flow of the river, leading to more dead vegetation, changing ecosystem and a build up on bacteria and decay leading to more methane. These are the facts of dams, regardless of what you want to believe and you who are so dependent on them for electricity, by many studies are, responsible for as much if not more greenhouse gas emission than many other sources of electricity when the impact of methane is taken into account. I recommend you just look at the latest studies on dams that have been published en masse over the last 6-8 years.

You can beat on us Conservatives all you want, but I'm with the ultra-left on the issue of dams, our natural waterways, including rivers and lakes.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Often. Fish ladders are a "feel good" thing, I guess better than nothing but not much.

Your obvious bias to ignore the reality on the ground and right in your own backyard and blame GW for the salmon destruction and spawning is hysterical. BUT believe what you want. I will pay attention to the science that you claim we Conservatives ignore.

Yes your system of dams all over the NW are contributing TREMENDOUSLY to greenhouse gases despite what you "see" on your tour. You are kidding me with this line of reasoning, aren't you?? Do you know why it's called the Bonneville Dam? Because when they built the dam, near the falls, the river raised SIGNIFICANTLY to cover the "Bonneville Falls", which by physics, reduced the rate of flow of the river, leading to more dead vegetation, changing ecosystem and a build up on bacteria and decay leading to more methane. These are the facts of dams, regardless of what you want to believe and you who are so dependent on them for electricity, by many studies are, responsible for as much if not more greenhouse gas emission than many other sources of electricity when the impact of methane is taken into account. I recommend you just look at the latest studies on dams that have been published en masse over the last 6-8 years.

You can beat on us Conservatives all you want, but I'm with the ultra-left on the issue of dams, our natural waterways, including rivers and lakes.

An environmental conservative. How do you reconcile that?

Steve N.

 

[Priaptor]

An environmental conservative. How do you reconcile that?

Steve N.

Actually, given where you live, taking into account the huge quantities of methane your source of electricity emits you may be better off driving a gas powered vehicle. The irony of that possibility makes me laugh.

 

[Ron Resnick]

no, I'm not touching that. I'm having a nice peaceful Saturday.

Hahaha! Good call, Mike!

 

[Ron Resnick]

An environmental conservative. How do you reconcile that?

Steve N.

Very easily! Much Libertarian philosophy is based on avoiding negative externalities, and on obligating the wrongdoer to compensate the injured party.

Feel free to PM me for a fuller explanation.

 

[KeithR]

And Steve, just the fact you have a $1k/month electric bill puts your perspective WAY out in left field. And a 10.8kW solar system? This is about 10x larger footprint vs what folks in my neighborhood use... and prices around here start at about $400k so it's not exactly a slum.

Ha. And OC weather is in the 70s, 75% of the year.

In California, you usually have to prove how much power you use for like 6 months before a solar install. the general "scam" in Cali is to turn your AC down to like 68 so that the meter guys measure a whole lot more use and allow you to put up more solar panels- thereby allowing you to "sell" more to the system. This reduces the payback period for the system.

I'm not saying Steve is doing this, but there is a lot of gamesmanship in solar installs in SoCal.

 

[KeithR]

You do your own cause a disservice because of your rhetoric and your attitude.

+1. I actually would never purchase anything from him since he wears politics on his sleeves on audio forums and won't stop.

Maybe its just me that would enjoy manufacturers to talk about gear so I could learn a few things.

 

[Ron Resnick]

+1. I actually would never purchase anything from him since he wears politics on his sleeves on audio forums and won't stop.

Maybe its just me that would enjoy manufacturers to talk about gear so I could learn a few things.

+1

 

[Steve williams]

Ha. And OC weather is in the 70s, 75% of the year.

In California, you usually have to prove how much power you use for like 6 months before a solar install. the general "scam" in Cali is to turn your AC down to like 68 so that the meter guys measure a whole lot more use and allow you to put up more solar panels- thereby allowing you to "sell" more to the system. This reduces the payback period for the system.

I'm not saying Steve is doing this, but there is a lot of gamesmanship in solar installs in SoCal.

Well for sure I’m not and I’ve never heard that story Keith. As I’ve said before no one sells their banked KWh to the electric company as they only get 3 cents per kWh

As for providing your electric consumption this has nothing to do with the electric company but merely serves as a data point in designing a grid large enough to satisfy your demand. Plus after they did I told them I want an additional 3 panels which I thought would keep me in pace with inflation and the rising cost of energy

I don’t know who told you that story Keith but IMO it is baseless