But Ron listened to SOTA digital and enjoyed it a lot - as far as we read "We listened to the entire Jennifer Warnes’ Famous Blue Raincoat album. Jennifer Warnes’ voice sounded as rich and breathy and realistic as I have ever heard her. "
The Audio System and High-End Philosophy of Mike Lavigne
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
But Ron listened to SOTA digital and enjoyed it a lot - as far as we read "We listened to the entire Jennifer Warnes’ Famous Blue Raincoat album. Jennifer Warnes’ voice sounded as rich and breathy and realistic as I have ever heard her. "
I think people want a review of every component they themselves are interested in from the system. Each reviewer has different interests and can throw light on different aspects
takeaway from this is the difference in the amplifiers, and the overall impression of the system, again consistent with various other reports that it was the best sound the visitor heard, and that preconceived notions were proven wrong. At no point was an attempt made to analyze every aspect of the system.
So a digital reviewer can go review the digital part, a tape reviewer various tapes, and so on
takeaway from this is the difference in the amplifiers, and the overall impression of the system, again consistent with various other reports that it was the best sound the visitor heard, and that preconceived notions were proven wrong. At no point was an attempt made to analyze every aspect of the system.
So a digital reviewer can go review the digital part, a tape reviewer various tapes, and so on
and I pointed out to Ron that 'Famous Blue Raincoat' was recorded digitally and mastered to tape. he only smiled.
I have heard things recorded from vinyl to tape sound better than the vinyl played back.
I was at Vertere's, where he played back a LP that was recorded from digital. He also played back the digital from the same dac (benchmark) that it was recorded from. The LP sounded better.
He explained that if we go to Abbey road studios where this recording was done, we won't hear this difference and they will sound at the same level. He explained the reason happens because of quality of playback in consumer systems. The digital system in a studio has much lower loss of signal, and the same dac used at his place is compromised during playback.
I was at Vertere's, where he played back a LP that was recorded from digital. He also played back the digital from the same dac (benchmark) that it was recorded from. The LP sounded better.
He explained that if we go to Abbey road studios where this recording was done, we won't hear this difference and they will sound at the same level. He explained the reason happens because of quality of playback in consumer systems. The digital system in a studio has much lower loss of signal, and the same dac used at his place is compromised during playback.
Weren't you afraid he could have an anaphylactic reaction in your listening room?
Fantastic read ron , im only half way yet .
The more you like the sound the longer the review,lol.
Anyway , makes me realize further, i should focus more on room acoustics , if possible.
And Nice to hear confirmed what i also hear , is that tape has a special way with voices (and piano afaic)
The more you like the sound the longer the review,lol.
Anyway , makes me realize further, i should focus more on room acoustics , if possible.
And Nice to hear confirmed what i also hear , is that tape has a special way with voices (and piano afaic)
Don't blame Mike. Mike would have been delighted to discuss the grounding tweaks with me. I don't have any personal experience with them, so I feel I can add little value to a discussion of them.
If Mike had unplugged all of the Tripoint and Entreq and then re-started the system I am extremely doubtful I would have come to any different conclusion about anything. Maybe I would have been 1% or 5% less effusively positive about the system overall?
Besides each amplifier had the benefit of the grounding components. So that likely was a level playing field.
Yep! I know Famous Blue Raincoat was digitally recorded (back when digital recording was not that great). It is a shame! I think the sound quality on the resulting album would have been vastly higher if it were recorded the way Anne Bisson is recorded (and mastered) today!
I like Famous Blue Raincoat in spite of it being digitally recorded.
Yes, take out the Elite. And it will be fun to see what kind of trick Mike would pull to get back to the sound he currently is happy with.
Tang
It is what puzzles me - the more driver surface you have the better the coupling to the room. Unless the drivers are are wired in parallel creating a low impedance - something we have been told it is not true - it should not be a problem.
Perhaps you listened louder in Mike's room than in Steve's.
An orchestra moves a lot of air all together , a single acoustic guitar much less , so some systems can do the latter quite convincingly but fail on the first .
Overall mikes / Ron set impression is a lot like mine when i owned the zanden , which might not be in ml 3 League but still
Overall mikes / Ron set impression is a lot like mine when i owned the zanden , which might not be in ml 3 League but still
Hi,
Mike,thank you for the clarity.
Ron,let us agree to disagree.
That is all I want to say about this.
Happy listening.
Regards Robert
Mike,thank you for the clarity.
Ron,let us agree to disagree.
That is all I want to say about this.
Happy listening.
Regards Robert
Nice write up. I can understand that you did not have much interest in listening to the digital gear...with so much great analog gear on hand. What I am a little surprised at is the statement about how some 45rpm's can sound better than their tape brethren. Not sure how that is possible.
I also agree 100% that the room is the most important ( and in most people's experience, the most expensive) component, by far. Last week, I had the pleasure of visiting a ten million dollar room sited on an ocean bluff that was truly extraordinary. About 30' x50', this room was constructed over a five year period and had some of the most amazing acoustics I have ever heard...as it should for the $$. Unfortunately I was not allowed to take photos, but it definitely brought home the fact that the room is where the big money needs to be spent. ( Not that the rest of the gear was shabby in any way, lol).
The old saying....great room...less great gear= great sound----poor room, great gear=poor sound, is certainly always something to remember.
. What I am a little surprised at is the statement about how some 45rpm's can sound better than their tape brethren. Not sure how that is possible.I also agree 100% that the room is the most important ( and in most people's experience, the most expensive) component, by far. Last week, I had the pleasure of visiting a ten million dollar room sited on an ocean bluff that was truly extraordinary. About 30' x50', this room was constructed over a five year period and had some of the most amazing acoustics I have ever heard...as it should for the $$. Unfortunately I was not allowed to take photos, but it definitely brought home the fact that the room is where the big money needs to be spent. ( Not that the rest of the gear was shabby in any way, lol).
The old saying....great room...less great gear= great sound----poor room, great gear=poor sound, is certainly always something to remember.
Ron, A very well done report. Thank you for taking the time to put it together. Very insightful. As I have mentioned before, I think the above comment reflects the single most important thing I have learned about system building. Well said.
Mike, You are as hospitable as you are committed to excellence in our great hobby. Really wonderful stuff. You are an invaluable resource to this Forum.
The only regret I have, as mentioned on another thread and by a couple of others, is that at this level it would have been really special for that last degree of perfection to have had the pre-amps from each amplifier line in the house but that's splitting the split hairs.
Thanks guys,
I have been reflecting on your writeup this morning and have to admit my audio outlook is a bit soured.
It would appear the lion share of the ability to transparently reproduce music with top-flight gear is based on Mike's very expensive audio-specific room. If these designers are really doing it for such rare spaces in audiophile-land, I can't help but to worry. If the gear is only optimal based on such significant criteria for ownership, where does that leave the audiophile who wants a reference speaker to share music with friends without creating a dedicated man cave. Said another way, if the only way a Clearaudio Goldfinger cartridge doesn't sound bright is a six-figure room, shouldn't we pin some blame on the designer?
I fully realize SOTA is a big investment and one where MikeL has fully achieved it in this hobby, but shouldn't great gear sound good in a variety of rooms and spaces.
It would appear the lion share of the ability to transparently reproduce music with top-flight gear is based on Mike's very expensive audio-specific room. If these designers are really doing it for such rare spaces in audiophile-land, I can't help but to worry. If the gear is only optimal based on such significant criteria for ownership, where does that leave the audiophile who wants a reference speaker to share music with friends without creating a dedicated man cave. Said another way, if the only way a Clearaudio Goldfinger cartridge doesn't sound bright is a six-figure room, shouldn't we pin some blame on the designer?
I fully realize SOTA is a big investment and one where MikeL has fully achieved it in this hobby, but shouldn't great gear sound good in a variety of rooms and spaces.
Good stuff, good rig, good room, good read, good fun, good music, good environment, good people, good life.
Weren't you afraid he could have an anaphylactic reaction in your listening room?
he seemed to cope just fine.
and if I were to have insisted that we spend a couple of hours on digital I doubt he would have shriveled up and died. and the kind soul that Ron is, he would have accommodated me. but this was Ron's time and Ron's agenda......not mine. I get to choose all the time. i want my guests to indulge their own wants.
OTOH Ked wanting me to bring all this other gear in to compare, I did draw the line there.
Yes, take out the Elite. And it will be fun to see what kind of trick Mike would pull to get back to the sound he currently is happy with.
Tang
you are right Tang, although I don't like to have to go through the re-calming of the Tripoint gear.
Mike
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